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    (Original post by HateOCR)
    No but thats just a result of a society with democracy, and as long as it harms nobody and society accepts it then its fine.
    The middle east is corrupt and i wouldn’t expect them to act liberally.
    So you are accepting that there is a chance, that with the growing muslim population in Europe comes more islamic style laws and politics. As it is just a by product of a growing populations of people?
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    (Original post by HateOCR)
    What do you mean in the last 3 sentences?

    Yes some of these things are disgusting, and yes some of them do happen but you cannot simply start a blame game. These conversations have happened millions of time on TSR and im going to emphasise it again. Both extremes are stupid - theist or atheist. Can you please understand where im coming from because i don’t want to talk further about it if you won’t be cooperative. A good conversation is one where we actually consider eachothers points rather than try to convince one another of our thoughts. Thanks.
    you're not considering my points.
    you said that 5% of Muslims will never overtake the majority and I personally agree, but the high fertility rates of Muslims will mean that this percetage is due to increase and thus the chances are that there are going to be even more radical muslims than there are now. Also Islam is a difficult religion considering it's absolutism and complete resistance to reform or change which means that intolerant views that are harboured by the religion are not being challenged and although i dont think that west will be islamisized, i do think that people are becoming worryingly nonchalant to the extremist view being held by Muslims. The west is tolerating an intolerant religion overall.

    you don't have to believe me but this is reality and denying a problem is just aggravating the problem.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    The majority of UK slaughtered meat is not halal.
    Also, about 85% of UK halal meat is pre-stunned, which means that the only difference between most halal meat and non-halal meat is that a few Arabic words were said before the animal was slaughtered. They are both killed by cutting major blood vessels leading to a fatal drop in blood pressure and all the blood draining out of the carcass. No practical difference.
    I can't understand why anyone would have an issue with that.
    Oh wow, never thought for once I'd agree with something you said.
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    (Original post by Every-3weeks)
    What is the general feeling about Islamization problems in Britain now?
    Currently I'm in the midst of creating a paramilitary force to combat this problem, you can sign up if you want!
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    (Original post by SCIENCE :D)
    So you are accepting that there is a chance, that with the growing muslim population in Europe comes more islamic style laws and politics. As it is just a by product of a growing populations of people?
    See i can’t give you a direct answer. One would assume that as more muslim children are born, their generation will be more accepting of western values and would be more tolerant and accepting of british values. I can’t give you a definitive answer to that question because it depends on so many things.
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    (Original post by justanotherchica)
    you're not considering my points.
    you said that 5% of Muslims will never overtake the majority and I personally agree, but the high fertility rates of Muslims will mean that this percetage is due to increase and thus the chances are that there are going to be even more radical muslims than there are now. Also Islam is a difficult religion considering it's absolutism and complete resistance to reform or change which means that intolerant views that are harboured by the religion are not being challenged and although i dont think that west will be islamisized, i do think that people are becoming worryingly nonchalant to the extremist view being held by Muslims. The west is tolerating an intolerant religion overall.

    you don't have to believe me but this is reality and denying a problem is just aggravating the problem.
    Probably not since most young Muslims are more educated and 'westernised' now so I doubt the high fertility rates will continue with this generation.
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    (Original post by justanotherchica)
    you're not considering my points.
    you said that 5% of Muslims will never overtake the majority and I personally agree, but the high fertility rates of Muslims will mean that this percetage is due to increase and thus the chances are that there are going to be even more radical muslims than there are now. Also Islam is a difficult religion considering it's absolutism and complete resistance to reform or change which means that intolerant views that are harboured by the religion are not being challenged and although i dont think that west will be islamisized, i do think that people are becoming worryingly nonchalant to the extremist view being held by Muslims. The west is tolerating an intolerant religion overall.

    you don't have to believe me but this is reality and denying a problem is just aggravating the problem.
    Couldn’t you say that people who aren’t able to tolerate Islam are equally as dangerous as radical Muslims? Your point isn’t going anywhere and as far as im concerned there is no way to tell an extremist (Muslim or non-muslim). I didn’t say i don’t believe you and you probably know more than i do considering you are an ex-muslim (i think from one of your threads). There are Muslims who integrate just fine and others who do not.
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    (Original post by HateOCR)
    See i can’t give you a direct answer. One would assume that as more muslim children are born, their generation will be more accepting of western values and would be more tolerant and accepting of british values. I can’t give you a definitive answer to that question because it depends on so many things.
    Ok fair enough, yeah it is true a lot of this is theoretical. However, what if future generations do not become more accepting of 'British values'? Maybe some of them will see what 'Western values' have done to Islamic countries in the ME and rebel against it.
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    (Original post by SCIENCE :D)
    Ok fair enough, yeah it is true a lot of this is theoretical. However, what if future generations do not become more accepting of 'British values'? Maybe some of them will see what 'Western values' have done to Islamic countries in the ME and rebel against it.
    Again a very small minority will probably think that. Im pretty sure that as society advances we will all hopefully be able to integrate better, but history does repeat itself. What if the hate on Islam increases to a level where genocide happens - like it did with the jews.
    Do you see where im coming from? Both sides of the extremes are dangerous. Theres no point taking this debate further i don’t think any of us will benefit any more but it was nice to see your input. Have a good night.
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    (Original post by HateOCR)
    Again a very small minority will probably think that. Im pretty sure that as society advances we will all hopefully be able to integrate better, but history does repeat itself. What if the hate on Islam increases to a level where genocide happens - like it did with the jews.
    Do you see where im coming from? Both sides of the extremes are dangerous. Theres no point taking this debate further i don’t think any of us will benefit any more but it was nice to see your input. Have a good night.
    Ok fair enough, have a good night.
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    (Original post by GreenBell)
    Probably not since most young Muslims are more educated and 'westernised' now so I doubt the high fertility rates will continue with this generation.
    hmm that's a good point, there's no way of telling whats going whats going to happen but even if fertility rates do decrease, i think that a lot of highly educated muslims are more strictly adhering to islamic principle than their parents because there is greater info availab,e about the religion so I have a feeling that it will still be either higher or about the same as non muslim. but i dont have facts to back this points... just a theory
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    What exactly is islamization.
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    Come to Birmingham and see the effects yourself
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    Thank you. Unfortunately, the link above isn't working for me so I searched up for Pew itself and it's reports. I came across this. The problem with these sorts of numbers is that they are brought about by projecting current data trends decades into the future whilst assuming many things are staying the same. Something Pew recognises by adding a disclaimer, here's an exceprt:

    "Population projections are estimates built on current population data and assumptions about demographic trends. The future of the Muslim population in Europe will be influenced by economic and political circumstances in Europe that affect the feasibility and desirability of immigration, as well as circumstances outside Europe, including political upheavals and armed conflicts that could produce migration surges. The future of Muslim and non-Muslim populations also may be influenced by scientific discoveries, environmental challenges and other changes that could shift demographic trends in unforeseen ways."

    They even go further by outlining some of these influences, here's a relevant exceprt. justanotherchica, mentioning you because I notice you talk about fertility rates:

    "Over time, Muslim fertility rates are projected to decline, narrowing the gap with the non-Muslim population from a full child per woman today to 0.7 children between 2045 and 2050. This is because the fertility rates of second- and third-generation immigrants generally become similar to the overall rates in their adopted countries."

    Earlier on you talked how these experts 'predict', here they are saying they're not doing that. In fact, they say in their own report that predictions are impossible:

    "These are not efforts to predict what will happen in the future, but rather a set of projections about what could happen"

    These things tend not to sound so scary when you look at them, not saying that you're attempting to do anything of that sort.
 
 
 
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