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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    When will people learn that the new left is a form of insanity
    But Jeremy is our saviour...
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    This fatness topic has become huge here in the UK. Its prime mover? Feminism and its followers who are, generally speaking, physically unattractive, abese women. Its funded to the tunes of tens of millions of pounds every year by the British tax payer believe it or not. This is a recent advert by the Feminist and Women's Studies Association for an event to "Celebrate Fatness" in the UK funded by the ESRC an organisation that provides money that it derives mostly from the British tax payer for research:

    "‘Experiencing and Celebrating Fatness: Seminar 3

    This seminar will address the intersection between Fat Studies, Health At Every Size and fat activism. It will explore individuals’ experiences of activism, sites for intervention, and the possibilities for fat activism in relation to health and beyond. There will be a combination of presentations and workshop activities."

    https://fwsa.wordpress.com/2010/10/0...eyond-obesity/

    Yes they actually have topic in gender studies programmes called "Fat Studies" and they are being funded by the tax payer. Funding which they are using on research to support the benefits of fatness...I would not be surprised if a few years from now there will be a ton of research "proving" how healthy it is for women to become fat.

    Feminism is not only empowering sexism and dividing men and women but its also actively involved in promoting an unhealthier society.
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    (Original post by Acsel)
    Regardless of the pretense used, it doesn't change the fact that being obese is a bad thing.
    Agreed. But I think just about ever obese person knows that. Those who are "fighting" back are effectively saying - "Stop telling me to suck eggs. I'll do what I want." In other words, they are so sick of being told to lose weight they have got to the point of saying they are happy to take on the risk of illness and rather than get stressed to the teeth about their weight, enjoy being who they are - just like we do.

    So if the obesity epidemic is to be conquered we need something much more subtle because social exclusion clearly isn't working, especially as those not obese are now in a minority.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Agreed. But I think just about ever obese person knows that. Those who are "fighting" back are effectively saying - "Stop telling me to suck eggs. I'll do what I want." In other words, they are so sick of being told to lose weight they have got to the point of saying they are happy to take on the risk of illness and rather than get stressed to the teeth about their weight, enjoy being who they are - just like we do.

    So if the obesity epidemic is to be conquered we need something much more subtle because social exclusion clearly isn't working, especially as those not obese are now in a minority.
    That assumes "social exclusion" is the only method being employed. Education and campaigns, better food labeling and so on occur in tandem with this.

    In a really broad sense, obesity is part of human nature. Humans will inevitably do things that are bad for them if it feels good, especially because the short term benefit outweighs the long term cost. Obesity is a perfect example of that. I don't think this fundamental flaw in human thinking will ever be fixed. Choosing to judge others is also a part of human nature. So in some respects, those who are fat through choice and those who fat shame suffer from similar problems related to "faulty" thinking. But of course one can argue if it's human nature, is it really faulty.

    In all honesty, on a personal level I don't actually care. It's a personal choice and no matter how dumb I might think it is, if someone wants to get fat off eating junk food all day that's absolutely their choice and their responsibility. The only time it does concern me is the strain on public resources and at that point I'll treat the obese the same as I'd treat smokers or heavy drinkers who also put a strain on public services.

    The rest of the time though, I merely see these things as a form of natural selection. If someone knows they are doing damage to themselves and chooses not to change, they will suffer for it and that's their fault. If I were to seriously work towards eradicating the obesity pandemic, I would do so out of my own self interest than. But right now, I'm really just here for the debate.

    As humans we each have idealistic views. I completely agree with just letting people be happy with how they are. But at the same time, there's an idealistic way of seeing people. If we focus purely on the health aspect and ignore things like attractiveness and the drain on services, being obese is wrong and not good for you. So we have two conflicting opinions. Do you let the person be themselves, knowing that it is hurting them? Or do you intervene for their own good, at the risk of them fighting back? Morally, which is correct? Letting them make their own choices, even if that choice is wrong, or preventing their choices for their own good? Personally I would fall into the second camp, I don't think humans are capable of maintaining their own well being and would fight choices that harm people. Plenty of people would agree, which is why we have campaigns to fight obesity and plenty of people would be pro freedom of choice. There is not a right answer.

    I'm not really sure where I'm going with this whole "humans can't be trusted with themselves" tangent so I'll leave it there.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    Yes they actually have topic in gender studies programmes called "Fat Studies" and they are being funded by the tax payer. Funding which they are using on research to support the benefits of fatness...I would not be surprised if a few years from now there will be a ton of research "proving" how healthy it is for women to become fat.
    They're a little late to the party. Brainiac dealt with fat vs thin years ago.
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    (Original post by angelike1)
    It's definitely unhealthy and views denying this should not be endorsed.

    Though if someone is fat we should not criticise their choice.
    If someone is costing society thousands/ millions pounds on healthcare because of their lifestyle choices we can criticise. Why not? If we don't criticise it will become normal and cost the UK billions more and we dont want that do we?
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    (Original post by TheRuralJuror)
    I've had loads of parents and close ones die purely of they're way of life, too much sugar, too much smoking, too much fatness.
    and I think its completely stupid to die of your own hands
    'enjoy life' they say when eating bad food, but if you died early have you enjoyed life by just eating bad food? is that enjoying life?
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    Obesity is massive societal problem. Fat acceptance worsens that problem. People shouldn't be encouraged to feel as though obesity is acceptable. It's disgusting, a drain on public health resources, and completely avoidable. People need to be told this. Sometimes you have to look in the mirror and feel some shame.

    Eat fewer calories. Exercise more. Eat a salad instead of a pizza. Walk or bike to work if it's not actually that far. Have social services take fat kids away from obviously irresponsible parents.

    Contrary to popular belief, poverty does not force you to sit around eating junk food and copious amounts of fat and sugar. Ethiopians and the homeless don't exactly have an obesity problem, and when times were financially rough for me, my problem was losing too much weight - not gaining it.
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    (Original post by angelike1)
    Though if someone is fat we should not criticise their choice.
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Personally I'm fine with CRUK mounting awareness campaigns, and it's clearly silly to complain about 'fat shaming' in this case. However, they lose me when they start calling for things to be banned. There are altogether too many of these groups pushing for state interference in aspects of people's lives which are really none of anyone else's business.
    It is our business and we should criticise their choice if it's costing us a lot of money and putting unnecessary strain on the NHS.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    When will people learn that the new left is a form of insanity
    It is not what you call the new left that is the main problem. It is the majority of British people that chose to be overweight or obese.

    Britain has gone from being one of the most industrious nations in the world to one of the most obese. Gluttony and idleness are now central to British culture. That it is not a source of national embarrassment and shame is a damning indictment of Britain.
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    (Original post by howitoughttobe)
    It is our business and we should criticise their choice if it's costing us a lot of money and putting unnecessary strain on the NHS.
    I don't really care if you criticise or not. Just don't try to control people by banning things.

    Fundamentally, people don't owe you, or anyone else, a duty to keep themselves in shape. That's their concern, and the fact that they have access to a socialised healthcare system that they didn't necessarily ask for and can't opt out of is no excuse at all for coercive state interference in their lifestyles.

    If you object so strongly to fat people costing the NHS money, carve out self-inflicted obesity-related illnesses from coverage. At least in that case they're still at liberty to ignore you and what you think, which is my core concern.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I don't really care if you criticise or not. Just don't try to control people by banning things.

    Fundamentally, people don't owe you, or anyone else, a duty to keep themselves in shape. That's their concern, and the fact that they have access to a socialised healthcare system that they didn't necessarily ask for and can't opt out of is no excuse at all for coercive state interference in their lifestyles.

    If you object so strongly to fat people costing the NHS money, carve out self-inflicted obesity-related illnesses from coverage. At least in that case they're still at liberty to ignore you and what you think, which is my core concern.
    I think that's a very good idea. And include benefits in that as well. Unfortunately I don't make those sorts of decisions so for now encouraging people to lose weight is the best option.

    Out of interest, if someone was cutting themselves would you have the same opinion?
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    (Original post by jdddd)
    'enjoy life' they say when eating bad food, but if you died early have you enjoyed life by just eating bad food? is that enjoying life?
    so not being fat means you don't eat good food? so macdos are Michelin stared i guess
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    (Original post by Acsel)
    Part of the problem here is that no matter what you say to someone, deriding or otherwise, some people will always take it as a personal insult. There's a very fine line between having an open discussion and pussyfooting around the problem. And that line isn't always in the same place for both sides of the conversation. At the end of the day, no matter how it's dressed up, it's still a negative thing to be unhealthy. Sometimes it is necessary to take the more brutal approach because it works. Tough love should not be confused with insults and derision. The title of this thread doesn't exactly fall in line with the rest of the OP and while there are "nicer" words that can be used, if you are fat then you are fat. Ironically if I weren't so lazy I'd also talk about how fat shaming is used, should we rename that to obese shaming?

    I'd also like to point out that while the discussion is about overweight people, they should not be the sole focus. Some overweight people will struggle to lose weight and some thin people may not understand that. But equally those who are a healthy weight or overweight also won't understand the struggles of people who are unhealthily underweight. It can be just as hard to gain weight as it can be to lose it and I don't think all the focus should be on "fat" people.

    It isn’t just those two groups either. There’s the people who are proud of the fact that they can eat what they want and never put on weight. But there are still health implications.
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    (Original post by Winner winner)
    It isn’t just those two groups either. There’s the people who are proud of the fact that they can eat what they want and never put on weight. But there are still health implications.
    I would say I fall into that group. I have had people comment about my weight and build though, despite how difficult it is for me to gain weight.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Contrary to popular belief, poverty does not force you to sit around eating junk food and copious amounts of fat and sugar. Ethiopians and the homeless don't exactly have an obesity problem, and when times were financially rough for me, my problem was losing too much weight - not gaining it.
    If you're eating at McDonalds every day that's £30-40 a week. I doubt many people in poverty will be able to do that.

    I'm overweight and don't see the problem with this advertising, it's my own fault because whenever I was upset my default setting was always eating **** food. Fortunately I found a way to snap out of it and i'm now (slowly) starting to do something about it. The campaigns have worked with smoking, so why not obesity. It's not abusing people for being overweight, that is wrong and wouldn't solve anything. It's pointing out things that have been factually proven as damaging to health.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    Yes they actually have topic in gender studies programmes called "Fat Studies" and they are being funded by the tax payer. Funding which they are using on research to support the benefits of fatness...I would not be surprised if a few years from now there will be a ton of research "proving" how healthy it is for women to become fat.

    Feminism is not only empowering sexism and dividing men and women but its also actively involved in promoting an unhealthier society.
    "Fat studies." Good Christ, I can see it now: a room full of tattooed, nose-ringed, feminist land whales discussing how the concept of unhealthy obesity is a form of patriarchal, white supremacist, colonialist violence. Extra credits awarded for loud, obnoxious activism and pulling the fire alarm at the gym.

    Diabetes, heart attacks and joint problems are just social constructs!
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    (Original post by TheRuralJuror)
    so not being fat means you don't eat good food? so macdos are Michelin stared i guess
    What the hell are you talking about??
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    (Original post by howitoughttobe)
    I think that's a very good idea. And include benefits in that as well. Unfortunately I don't make those sorts of decisions so for now encouraging people to lose weight is the best option.

    Out of interest, if someone was cutting themselves would you have the same opinion?
    I think that, for as long as we have a socialised medical system, psychiatric illness should be treated by it. This makes dealing with people who cut themselves a bit more difficult, since clearly there will be a correlation there. In principle, though, if you have someone of sound mind who decides to cut himself, yes, I think the same applies.

    Fatness, on the other hand, is generally just a matter of habit and choice rather than pathology.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I think that, for as long as we have a socialised medical system, psychiatric illness should be treated by it. This makes dealing with people who cut themselves a bit more difficult, since clearly there will be a correlation there. In principle, though, if you have someone of sound mind who decides to cut himself, yes, I think the same applies.

    Fatness, on the other hand, is generally just a matter of habit and choice rather than pathology.
    Fair enough
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