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Fat lady in denial about how bad being fat is watch

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    (Original post by Andrew97)
    There’s no comparison between smoking/obesity and a sports injury. A sports injury happens when you doing something good for your health (exercise) and it goes a bit wrong. Smoking/obesity are bad for you whatever way you look at it.
    Some sports carry higher injury risk than others and those that carry higher risk of serious injury aren't necessarily correspondingly better for your health so I don't think it is such a simple argument to make. Diving out of helicopters to snowboard down mountains might be something which keeps you fit but it could be argued that when you break your back and require life-long care, you were rolling the dice just as smokers are.
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    (Original post by Acsel)
    ...If we can be sure that it is a choice and not a medical condition...
    There is another option. It can be argued that some of us experience symptoms of addiction to certain high calorie/processed foods, just as we recognise addiction to tobacco and alcohol. Before you break your keyboard telling me how ridiculous that argument is, bear in mind that the kinds of food people typically get fat on are not in any meaningful sense 'natural' but created with excessive levels of fat and/or sugar which are known to be evolved eating stimulants. By any reasonable standard an addict, once an addict, isn't really 'choosing' to maintain their addiction, that's why we have a word for it.
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    (Original post by Axiomasher)
    There is another option. It can be argued that some of us experience symptoms of addiction to certain high calorie/processed foods, just as we recognise addiction to tobacco and alcohol. Before you break your keyboard telling me how ridiculous that argument is, bear in mind that the kinds of food people typically get fat on are not in any meaningful sense 'natural' but created with excessive levels of fat and/or sugar which are known to be evolved eating stimulants. By any reasonable standard an addict, once an addict, isn't really 'choosing' to maintain their addiction, that's why we have a word for it.
    I should really have written "not a medical condition or otherwise" because as you say food addiction is a real problem. Other problems such as under eating can also be the result of faulty thinking so they are psychological problems. There are of course many possible reasons besides choice and medical conditions. But the emphasis was not on the alternatives. The reply you quoted was in response to someone who said we should not criticise their choice. The point of my reply was that it is fine to criticise poor choices, assuming we know for sure that it was a choice and not a medical condition, or as you've pointed out any other reasons. The emphasis was on it being a choice over anything else, not an attempt to portray choice and medical conditions as the only reason people are unhealthy. There are many possible reasons but to have written them all out would have detracted from the point of the post.
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    (Original post by Axiomasher)
    Some sports carry higher injury risk than others and those that carry higher risk of serious injury aren't necessarily correspondingly better for your health so I don't think it is such a simple argument to make. Diving out of helicopters to snowboard down mountains might be something which keeps you fit but it could be argued that when you break your back and require life-long care, you were rolling the dice just as smokers are.
    I agree that certain sports carry a higher risk than others, but you said it yourself. Even the more dangerous sports have a health benefit. Smoking doesn’t have any.
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    (Original post by Acsel)
    I should really have written "not a medical condition or otherwise" because as you say food addiction is a real problem. Other problems such as under eating can also be the result of faulty thinking so they are psychological problems. There are of course many possible reasons besides choice and medical conditions. But the emphasis was not on the alternatives. The reply you quoted was in response to someone who said we should not criticise their choice. The point of my reply was that it is fine to criticise poor choices, assuming we know for sure that it was a choice and not a medical condition, or as you've pointed out any other reasons. The emphasis was on it being a choice over anything else, not an attempt to portray choice and medical conditions as the only reason people are unhealthy. There are many possible reasons but to have written them all out would have detracted from the point of the post.
    My bad, I just took your post 'as is'. I still think that the very idea of 'choice' when it comes to food is problematic. Many of us have been brought up on a childhood food routine of highly processed convenience meals and snacks, sugar loaded sweets, fizzy drinks and so on. By the time we are adults, if not already obese, we are at least 'hooked' on things that are likely to lead to our obesity in the long-run. As I've suggested, we're very much hardwired to go for things like fat and sugar so when the food industry makes products that max-out on these many of us will succumb to that force.
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    (Original post by Andrew97)
    I agree that certain sports carry a higher risk than others, but you said it yourself. Even the more dangerous sports have a health benefit. Smoking doesn’t have any.
    Agreed. But if we're going to try and 'individualise' health responsibility then there's a case for challenging all recreational activities which are inherently risky, whether or not their pursuit otherwise has health benefits. To put it bluntly, if you don't want to pay for my cancer treatment because I smoked then maybe I don't want to pay for your 24 hour care needs because you broke your back snowboarding.

    I don't actually smoke btw, just making the argument.
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    (Original post by Axiomasher)
    My bad, I just took your post 'as is'. I still think that the very idea of 'choice' when it comes to food is problematic. Many of us have been brought up on a childhood food routine of highly processed convenience meals and snacks, sugar loaded sweets, fizzy drinks and so on. By the time we are adults, if not already obese, we are at least 'hooked' on things that are likely to lead to our obesity in the long-run. As I've suggested, we're very much hardwired to go for things like fat and sugar so when the food industry makes products that max-out on these many of us will succumb to that force.
    That's fair and there are a lot of other factors that come into it. I don't think the idea of pure choice exists, because our choices are largely not our own. But at the same time, I can personally make very conscious choices over what I eat. There are crisps in my room and fruit in the kitchen. I can make the choice to go downstairs and get the fruit. I can make the choice to move the crisps to the kitchen and the fruit to my room. Part of the problem is that these thoughts don't even occur for many people. To put it bluntly, a lot of people don't think.

    There are absolutely lots of things that cause food addiction and faulty thinking around food but I don't think the simple matter of being motivated to actually make a difference should be ignored. Plenty of people do it successfully. At the end of the day, far too few people are actually interested in their self development.

    It should also be noted that simply overeating is not the sole factor in poor health. Lack of exercise for example is also going to factor into it. There are a lot of different things that all play a part and I don't think it can be reduced down to simple things like "we are hard wired to do this" or "I've learned this".
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    (Original post by Acsel)
    ...I don't think the idea of pure choice exists, because our choices are largely not our own...
    I too am sceptical as to the idea of pure choice. Something of a cause and effect process must be happening inside our brain which generates a 'choice', it isn't, in my view, a metaphysical process. This is aside from the wider external forces which also weaken the idea that choices are unfettered. I would also say that other than our basic evolved orientation towards calorie rich food (and thus sweet or fatty tastes) there appears to be a strong emotional aspect to our interest in food. Emotion can't help but cloud any simple rational or 'common sense' approach we might otherwise take yet it's probably not something we can easily break free from. Finally, it's always worth mentioning that once a person has put weight on they need only have a 'normal' calorific intake to stay where they are. Losing weight requires an additional cut in calories (or increased calorie burning exercise - or both). Simply starting to eat healthily isn't often enough of itself for an obese person to go back down in weight, hence it being so hard for people even when they are trying.
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    I think this woman is a disgrace tbh. Its incredibly selfish of her to tweet all this dribble about how being fat is okay- it is NOT okay.

    If being fat makes you more likely to get some forms of cancer, then why the hell shouldn't CRUK highlight it? How dare she call CRUK, a charity whose research has no doubt saved thousands upon thousands of lives, "filthy c--ts". That's appalling.

    I read that the NHS spends as much on treating obesity as we spend on the fire service, police service and judicial system COMBINED. Why is that okay, when (for most people), being fat is so preventable?

    This super PC safe space which society is turning into is so dangerous because telling people it is okay to be fat is literally a threat to their health. Madness.
 
 
 
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