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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    I think the EU will survive. Even right wing European parties tend to be a lot more pro EU than us. Take Poland for example or even Fillon's party in France.
    Probably, but the EU would then be far more amenable to the these parties and there interests. An EU like that would certainly be a good thing.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    You are also looking at things from a materialist of view.

    Eg- divorces, suicides and abortions have all risen. People are less happy and less well integrated. There is far less social trust and cohesion.
    I would argue that much of that has been the result of free market, every man for himself, economic system. You talk about cohesion and one of the things that tended to bring cohesion was the fact that huge amounts of the workforce were unionised and shared common goals and interests. It's no coincidence that the happiest places like Denmark have very high levels of workforce unionisation.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    You are also looking at things from a materialist of view.

    Eg- divorces, suicides and abortions have all risen. People are less happy and less well integrated. There is far less social trust and cohesion.
    What have brexit got to do with divorce or abortions, are you implying the EU makes people immoral and brexit is some sort of return to moral values?

    Is this an admission Britain will be worse off after brexit?
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    If we had modern day technology with society that mirrored the best of our culture during the 1900's it would be amazing, we can return Europe to what it should be and economically prosper, whilst we have constantly looked to go foward we have left behind many of the benefits of our old society
    Their argument is basically

    ‘Oh you like curry, so we have to import ten thousand Indians every year or you can’t eat it anymore’

    ‘But we’ve got the recipe now?’ 😂😂😂
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Their argument is basically

    ‘Oh you like curry, so we have to import ten thousand Indians every year or you can’t eat it anymore’

    ‘But we’ve got the recipe now?’ 😂😂😂
    And you seem to be fantasising about Edwardians with internet.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Their argument is basically

    ‘Oh you like curry, so we have to import ten thousand Indians every year or you can’t eat it anymore’

    ‘But we’ve got the recipe now?’ 😂😂😂
    I have never seen a curry house with none Asian people doing the cooking, have you?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    You are also looking at things from a materialist of view.

    Eg- divorces, suicides and abortions have all risen. People are less happy and less well integrated. There is far less social trust and cohesion.
    Agreed. But that isn't down to Europe. It is capitalism that is causing unhappiness. And hard Brexiteers want less regulation and more liberal capitalism. In other words, screw the workers and bring on cheap crap imports from abroad.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Our problems all really stem From Germany,
    How?

    What problems are you on about?

    Immigration for instance was an issue before the EU came about and since then the UK government chose to take in high levels of immigration by itself.

    Our own government is useless and this has nothing to do with Germany

    Etc etc

    when we leave the noose they have tied around us we can prove that the EU is useless and corrupt
    It is *moraly* corrupt and under the control of globalist financiers and technocrats
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I have never seen a curry house with none Asian people doing the cooking, have you?
    Interesting question actually. No, why do you think that is?

    I can cook curry. It’s not particularly hard- just as you don’t need white people to have a McDonald’s in your country or whatever.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Interesting question actually. No, why do you think that is?

    I can cook curry. It’s not particularly hard- just as you don’t need white people to have a McDonald’s in your country or whatever.
    I can cook curry as well but I don't think anyone will pay me for it, have anyone paid you for your curry?
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Agreed. But that isn't down to Europe. It is capitalism that is causing unhappiness.
    Yes and no. Mindless capitalism or ‘classical loberalrism’ where everyone is atomised and rolls just do whatever they want is hurting society- but there are other forces at play here. Also some form of capitalism is inevitable. Our Culture should be able to withstand capitalism as it did so in the past.

    That said it’s not an easy fight, or a winnable one but I think it’s inevitsnle no matter what system. I think this is basically natural law.

    And hard Brexiteers want less regulation and more liberal capitalism. In other words, screw the workers and bring on cheap crap imports from abroad.
    Yes and it’s a problem, as per above. But I think as it becomes clear what people want pragmatism will prevail. Rees Mogg who is personally very evonomicalky liberal has said done encouraging things in this area
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I can cook curry as well but I don't think anyone will pay me for it, have anyone paid you for your curry?
    I was a cook st one point, and I did cook curry occasionally do kinda.

    But it’s kind of irrelevant- I don’t want to work in a curry house. Now, if there was serious demand for it and such a position was available with the right wages then I might reconsider- or natives could be trained in how to cook it.


    This might be a far better doloution than importing people across the globe to cook tikka massala for us
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Immigration is still a problem. Not to mention the fact we have to sort the problem if the immigrants already here
    Which would exist whether we were in or out of the EU.
    The size of the problem and the flow of people is still considerably less.
    The EU dying? No it isnt, but it will evolve over time.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Wrong.


    If we had totadays technology and knowledge, AND the society of 1900 era Britain, we would be far better off in my opinion.
    Sell that one to the female voters, those without work , the ill and the retired.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Which would exist whether we were in or out of the EU.
    The size of the problem and the flow of people is still considerably less.
    Agreed- see my response to Aperfect balance

    The EU dying? No it isnt, but it will evolve over time.
    The EU as it is today is dying. Whether it evolves, which I hope it will, we have yet to see
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Comparing apples to oranges, although I don’t think the NHS is in good shape either. (Although unlike the EU, there’s is widespread support for the NHS)
    Why is it like comparing apples to oranges?

    There has always been Euroskepticism in the EU just as there have been naysayers of the NHS


    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Cut the beast down and let us all return to Prosperity
    Care to elaborate?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    How?

    What problems are you on about?

    Immigration for instance was an issue before the EU came about and since then the UK government chose to take in high levels of immigration by itself.

    Our own government is useless and this has nothing to do with Germany

    Etc etc



    It is *moraly* corrupt and under the control of globalist financiers and technocrats
    I mean we could go back to ww2 if we really want to, the Rise and faliure of Facism in Germany and also Italy although that is far less important, the atrocities of Germany ruined Facism and its image (Good) but at the same time made people want to distance themselves from Far Right Ideologies and that has rubbed off on the moralistic and proper conservatism that we once had, not the flimsy conservatism of today, to the furthest extent it is why we now see people calling hardline conservatives facist and how nationalism (In terms of immigration and pride not genocide) is seen as evil because of Germany.

    The EEC once was perfectly fine, it was more like a friendly group that facilitated better trade and easier agreements, it was warped and now Germany has a large amount of control, they force nations to bend to the will of the EU in totally absurd ways.

    Granted it was not all Germany but they have a lot to do with it
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    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    The EU is not dying if anything it is at its greatest peak of its history. The Euro's value is at an all time high, the EU's economic growth is at an all time high.

    It's kind of Ironic how you claim Italy and Sweden could elect a right wing party because that was the same thing Brexiteers said about



    How did that turn out?
    German Economy based on using greece to undervalue its currency

    whilst eastern europe relies on free money from western taxpayers to grow.

    One big incestous scheme
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    (Original post by DJKL)
    Sell that one to the female voters, those without work , the ill and the retired.
    Hard I grant you, but not impossible. I’m not really s huge fan of democracy as people don’t realky know what they want. Let’s tackle your list.

    Women- women (and men) overall want to have a family, and whilst not necessarily wanting to return to being housewives I think introducing women into the labour market was more about making money and lowering wages than about female emancipation. This can be explained why women are so often unhappy and the low rate of women identifying as feminist.

    Those without work- well if we grant the above and there are less women competing and barely any immigration then there will be far more jobs available. Not to mention that this means we would abolish the welfare state completely, which I doubt. But even if we did, a stronger social community and institutions like the church would also play a role- and not contribute to the scourge of generations of ‘long term inemployed’

    The sick- slightly more complicated. The nhs was designed when people were living to the age of about 60. Some form of universal insurance coverage guaranteed by the state might be more appropriate.

    The retired- most old people and disabled people would rather live and die in the dignity of their own homes with their families than be carted off to care homes. I say that as someone with six years experience in the care sector
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Why is it like comparing apples to oranges?

    There has always been Euroskepticism in the EU just as there have been naysayers of the NHS
    Well one is a supranational body the other is s national health service..

    They are vastly different in how they operate and function
 
 
 

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