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    What is this?/I'm confused
    Hi there. If you're confused as to what is going on here then you are probably new to this section of TSR. This is a Model House of Commons, a forum where we emulate the structure of the Real Life House of Commons as an excuse to debate politics.

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    M472 - Liberland Recognition Motion, joep95 seconded by mr T 999This motion calls on the Government to recognise the sovereign state of the Free Republic of Liberland.

    The declarative theory of state hood has 4 stages:

    1) a defined territory;

    This is shown here
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/45...%C2%B052'0 0.0%22E/
    "Croatia’s insistence that Liberland is part of Serbia could constitute a renunciation of Croatia’s legal rights to Liberland. Conversely, if the territory that Liberland claims as its own is Serbian, the Serbian government’s renunciation of its title to that land could also be a quitclaim that would transform the legal status of the land to terra nullius. In both instances, the territory would belong to the first entity —in this case Liberland— to claim it."

    “Croatia’s unwillingness to assert title to Liberland also means that Liberland clearly has defined borders; Liberland is bordered by the Danube to the East, and Croatia on the West.”

    2) a permanent population
    This point is the questionable one
    “Should it matter to the Montevideo analysis that the reason why Liberland is yet to have a permanent resident population is because Croatia has prevented Liberland settlers from entering Liberland and arrested those that have been able to temporarily evade the authorities and actually reach Liberland? More generally, should an existing state be able to thwart the statehood aspirations of a nonviolent secessionist group by repressing that group and preventing its members from even accessing the territory that the secessionist group claims as its own? This dynamic is, to the author’s knowledge, a completely novel situation.”

    3) a government
    §I.2. The Free Republic of Liberland shall be governed by the Public Administration and no concurrent or otherwise form of government shall be established; no special branch of the Public Administration which is not provided for in the Constitution shall come into existence; no municipal or district governing body shall be established unless for a new territory upon its incorporation to the Free Republic of Liberland.

    "Liberland arguably possesses the ability to effectively govern its territory, even if the government is not currently located within Liberland’s borders. Liberland has a draft constitution, a domestic court system, a currency, a (very active) president, a cabinet, and a sophisticated process for granting citizenship. At least on paper, if not yet in practice, Liberland has all the necessary components of a modern liberal democratic state and may be able to effectively govern its territory.”

    4) a capacity to enter into relations with other states.
    “Liberland has established permanent diplomatic missions in numerous states, such as the United Kingdom, France, Germany, the United States, Hungary, Croatia, and Serbia."

    There is arguably a 5th stage and that is recognition and we should be the first state to recognise Liberland

    In summary
    It comes down to does an existing state have the ability to oppress a group of people not on it's land?
    “The international community must consider the incentives created by a strict permanent population test. If the permanent population criterion requires a permanent resident population or a permanent population of citizens within the territory claimed by the aspiring state, the existing state has a perverse incentive to prevent the would-be permanent residents of the aspiring state to enter the territory they claim. This incentive structure could embolden repressive regimes to exacerbate the abuses and injustices that motivated the aspiring state to attempt to secede from the parent state in the first place.”

    https://liberlandpress.com/2016/07/c...ase-liberland/
    http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/c...1uVcss.twitter
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    Hear, hear!

    Liberland! Liberland! Liberland!
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    sigh no
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    Just want to point out I was asked to resubmit this
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    Nay, the lack of clarity on where Liberland starts and ends is frustrating and the hostility by bordering countries would make it impossible for it to actually be a state unless we were to intervene and ensure protection for the residents.

    Otherwise I see no point in recognising Liberland.
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    Why are libertarians so obsessed with Liberland?
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    Wendover Productions has made an excellent video analysing the theory whether the European Union is a 'country'. Although it, arguably, meets the Declarative Theory of Statehood, countries, themselves, are 'social constructs' and not a natural phenomenon. Crucially, the European Union and Liberland fail the Constitutive Theory of Statehood - neither the EU nor Liberland are recognised as 'sovereign states'.

    To recognise Liberland, would result in the requisite acceptance of the European Union (not to mention the diplomatic mess that is Israel and Palestine).
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    (Original post by ns_2)
    Wendover Productions has made an excellent video analysing the theory whether the European Union is a 'country'. Although it, arguably, meets the Declarative Theory of Statehood, countries, themselves, are 'social constructs' and not a natural phenomenon. Crucially, the European Union and Liberland fail the Constitutive Theory of Statehood - neither the EU nor Liberland are recognised as 'sovereign states'.

    To recognise Liberland, would result in the requisite acceptance of the European Union (not to mention the diplomatic mess that is Israel and Palestine).
    It would not, a country can decide who it recognises as sovereign.

    If I remember correctly they both fail on countries recognising them
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    Aye, the true land of freedom should be recognised.
    MAKE LIBERLAND GREAT AGAIN
    #MLGA
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    What is this?/I'm confused
    Hi there. If you're confused as to what is going on here then you are probably new to this section of TSR. This is a Model House of Commons, a forum where we emulate the structure of the Real Life House of Commons as an excuse to debate politics.

    If you are seeing this and you want to get involved in the debate, please feel free. You do not need to join a party, get approval or join any group to get stuck in right away. If you enjoy it and you do want to join a party then you can do so here. If you have any questions or need any help please message me. I am the current speaker of the house and part of my role involves offering impartial advice to new members so I will always be happy to answer what questions you have. Alternatively, you can read the new members guide to get advice on a wide range of issues.

    Note: Please refrain from making comments about how we spend our free time. It is our free time to spend.


    M472 - Liberland Recognition Motion, joep95 seconded by mr T 999This motion calls on the Government to recognise the sovereign state of the Free Republic of Liberland.

    The declarative theory of state hood has 4 stages:

    1) a defined territory;

    This is shown here
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/45...%C2%B052'0 0.0%22E/
    "Croatia’s insistence that Liberland is part of Serbia could constitute a renunciation of Croatia’s legal rights to Liberland. Conversely, if the territory that Liberland claims as its own is Serbian, the Serbian government’s renunciation of its title to that land could also be a quitclaim that would transform the legal status of the land to terra nullius. In both instances, the territory would belong to the first entity —in this case Liberland— to claim it."

    “Croatia’s unwillingness to assert title to Liberland also means that Liberland clearly has defined borders; Liberland is bordered by the Danube to the East, and Croatia on the West.”

    2) a permanent population
    This point is the questionable one
    “Should it matter to the Montevideo analysis that the reason why Liberland is yet to have a permanent resident population is because Croatia has prevented Liberland settlers from entering Liberland and arrested those that have been able to temporarily evade the authorities and actually reach Liberland? More generally, should an existing state be able to thwart the statehood aspirations of a nonviolent secessionist group by repressing that group and preventing its members from even accessing the territory that the secessionist group claims as its own? This dynamic is, to the author’s knowledge, a completely novel situation.”

    3) a government
    §I.2. The Free Republic of Liberland shall be governed by the Public Administration and no concurrent or otherwise form of government shall be established; no special branch of the Public Administration which is not provided for in the Constitution shall come into existence; no municipal or district governing body shall be established unless for a new territory upon its incorporation to the Free Republic of Liberland.

    "Liberland arguably possesses the ability to effectively govern its territory, even if the government is not currently located within Liberland’s borders. Liberland has a draft constitution, a domestic court system, a currency, a (very active) president, a cabinet, and a sophisticated process for granting citizenship. At least on paper, if not yet in practice, Liberland has all the necessary components of a modern liberal democratic state and may be able to effectively govern its territory.”

    4) a capacity to enter into relations with other states.
    “Liberland has established permanent diplomatic missions in numerous states, such as the United Kingdom, France, Germany, the United States, Hungary, Croatia, and Serbia."

    There is arguably a 5th stage and that is recognition and we should be the first state to recognise Liberland

    In summary
    It comes down to does an existing state have the ability to oppress a group of people not on it's land?
    “The international community must consider the incentives created by a strict permanent population test. If the permanent population criterion requires a permanent resident population or a permanent population of citizens within the territory claimed by the aspiring state, the existing state has a perverse incentive to prevent the would-be permanent residents of the aspiring state to enter the territory they claim. This incentive structure could embolden repressive regimes to exacerbate the abuses and injustices that motivated the aspiring state to attempt to secede from the parent state in the first place.”

    https://liberlandpress.com/2016/07/c...ase-liberland/
    http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/c...1uVcss.twitter
    Me and Joe are RT.Hon correct this please.
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    Liberland needs to be recognised!
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    I am in favour of expressing solidarity with the people of Liberland!
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    The President is a Facebook friend but I'm afraid it isn't really legit if he isn't even able to live in his country permanantly
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    (Original post by ns_2)
    Wendover Productions has made an excellent video analysing the theory whether the European Union is a 'country'. Although it, arguably, meets the Declarative Theory of Statehood, countries, themselves, are 'social constructs' and not a natural phenomenon. Crucially, the European Union and Liberland fail the Constitutive Theory of Statehood - neither the EU nor Liberland are recognised as 'sovereign states'.

    To recognise Liberland, would result in the requisite acceptance of the European Union (not to mention the diplomatic mess that is Israel and Palestine).
    In reality, you can't really define a country that way.

    Apart from the examples of the EU and the USA, you also get Tokelau - they claim to be a sovereign state, their supposed mother country, New Zealand, also claim them to be a sovereign state. Yet, no-one else does. But somehow the same issue does not exist with the Vatican and the Marshall Islands.

    Even going by recognition, it's uncertain in many cases. Most countries are universally recognized, of course, but the list of partially recognized states goes on: Kosovo, Taiwan, China, North Korea, South Korea, Israel, Palestine, the Sovereign Order of Malta, Northern Cyprus etc.

    When it comes to recognition of other countries, it's really just about whether we want to do it, and whether it'd be benefit, not whether said country has satisfied some prescriptive or descriptive criteria.
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    Aye!
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    :bored:
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    I do not see the point of this bill.
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    This has gone to cessation
    Posted by SpeakerBot.
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    This has now been withdrawn
    Posted by SpeakerBot.
 
 
 
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