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Eurosceptic Majority in Italian elections watch

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    The Five Star Movement, Lega and Brothers of Italy together have a majority.

    Anti-Corruption Five Star movement (based largely online and with internal direct democracy) looks very likely the largest party.
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    17.3% - Lega Nord: Regionalist party, wants more autonomy for northern Italy (where they have a Germanic work ethic), probably wouldn't mind refugees being thrown into camps and gassed. Comparable to France's Front National.

    14.1% - Forza Italia: Burlesconi. Comparable to Trump, but more corrupt.

    33.1% - Five Star Movement: Comparable to a headless chicken.


    5star isn't necessarily very Eurosceptic. They're a direct democracy, so their policies change with the wind. Except policy on immigration, since virtually all Italians are pissed off with refugees.

    In fact, Lega Nord isn't overwhelmingly anti-EU either. It favours European federalism, and has supported more powers for the EU parliament, and acceleration of the four unions (political, economic, banking, fiscal).
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    17.3% - Lega Nord: Regionalist party, wants more autonomy for northern Italy (where they have a Germanic work ethic), probably wouldn't mind refugees being thrown into camps and gassed. Comparable to France's Front National.

    It's not regional any more; that's a very serious allegation against what is now the third largest party.


    5star isn't necessarily very Eurosceptic. They're a direct democracy, so their policies change with the wind. Except policy on immigration, since virtually all Italians are pissed off with refugees.

    If you look at policy they sound fairly eurosceptic

    - repatriate and stop migrant "taxi service"
    - issue parallel Lira against euro
    - destroy Euro budgetary constraints
    - referendum on EU participation "at appropriate time".



    In fact, Lega Nord isn't overwhelmingly anti-EU either. It favours European federalism, and has supported more powers for the EU parliament, and acceleration of the four unions (political, economic, banking, fiscal).
    You're misrepresenting them.
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    (Original post by bob072)
    It's not regional any more; that's a very serious allegation against what is now the third largest party.
    Regionalist - it is a North Italian interests group, although more recently more open to Italian nationalism.

    Belgium's 2nd largest party is the secessionist Flanders regionalist party, iirc.

    If you look at policy they sound fairly eurosceptic

    - repatriate and stop migrant "taxi service"
    - issue parallel Lira against euro
    - destroy Euro budgetary constraints
    - referendum on EU participation "at appropriate time".
    Being against Italy's migrant taxi service is not a eurosceptic stance. In fact it is the only stance a sane person can have if they want the EU project to be successful.

    The last three are positions of Salvini, but the party as a whole is pretty divided on Euroscepticism. The party has previously supported the EU project under previous leaders, although saying they support EU federalism is probably not true atm.
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    Looks like Italy is going to the dump.
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    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    Looks like Italy is going to the dump.
    A decade of economic decline didn't show you that already?
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    good news, another blow to the EU and it's refugee loving elite
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    It’s a blow to the eu ego at this point whether it is going to be a blow to the eu project remains to be seen as a referendum hasn’t been called or won yet
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    (Original post by So-Sarah)
    good news, another blow to the EU and it's refugee loving elite
    You do know if the EU, or simply just the Euro area, collapse it will have a spectacularly bad impact on Britain right?
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    Who would have thought that 10000 migrants landing in one weekend would alter the way people vote. 🤔
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    (Original post by Napp)
    You do know if the EU, or simply just the Euro area, collapse it will have a spectacularly bad impact on Britain right?

    It will have no difference on us if our neighbours decide against political union and scrapping a failed currency. In fact, governments will be held accountable and want free trade with us, which the EU is making difficult for their own reasons.
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    Not complicated, this has been caused by two things. Economic stagnation, leading to high unemployment and uncontrolled immigration by so called refugees. Take your pick which was the dominant cause, Scylla or Charybdis for those of you who have had a proper education.

    And BOTH those phenomenons are the direct result of European Union policy. The imposition of the Euro, without a concomitant political union which has caused Germany to boom and laid waste to Southern Europe, especially Italy and Greece. And the hapless, pathetic attempt to enforce a common European refugee policy followed by Merkel's open door policy and the free movement of people introduced by the EU.

    Like Brexit, this a big fcuck you to the EU elite. And the anger here is not going away. If they don't respond well to it democracy itself is at risk in some European countries, never mind the EU as an organisation.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Not complicated, this has been caused by two things. Economic stagnation, leading to high unemployment and uncontrolled immigration by so called refugees. Take your pick which was the dominant cause, Scylla or Charybdis for those of you who have had a proper education.

    And BOTH those phenomenons are the direct result of European Union policy. The imposition of the Euro, without a concomitant political union which has caused Germany to boom and laid waste to Southern Europe, especially Italy and Greece. And the hapless, pathetic attempt to enforce a common European refugee policy followed by Merkel's open door policy and the free movement of people introduced by the EU.

    Like Brexit, this a big fcuck you to the EU elite. And the anger here is not going away. If they don't respond well to it democracy itself is at risk in some European countries, never mind the EU as an organisation.
    Why is the Euro always the bogeyman? The Italian economy used to be comparable to the German economy, with equivalent GDP per capitas.

    In fact, Germany used to be the "sick man of Europe", back in the early 2000s. Germans were pretty annoyed at how the French had forced the Euro on them (as a prerequisite for re-unification). If it weren't for the economic crisis (in which Merkel screwed over the EU with her obsession with austerity), they probably wouldn't be so far ahead of the other major EU economies.

    Democracy in Italy is probably doomed. Mussolini is probably more popular today than he was back in WWII, at least in the south of Italy, but that goes far deeper than the recent refugee influx. Just wait until the next, inevitable, wave of refugees.
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Why is the Euro always the bogeyman? The Italian economy used to be comparable to the German economy, with equivalent GDP per capitas.

    In fact, Germany used to be the "sick man of Europe", back in the early 2000s. Germans were pretty annoyed at how the French had forced the Euro on them (as a prerequisite for re-unification). If it weren't for the economic crisis (in which Merkel screwed over the EU with her obsession with austerity), they probably wouldn't be so far ahead of the other major EU economies.

    Democracy in Italy is probably doomed. Mussolini is probably more popular today than he was back in WWII, at least in the south of Italy, but that goes far deeper than the recent refugee influx. Just wait until the next, inevitable, wave of refugees.

    It's called boom and bust. An unsubstantiated boom followed by a huge depression. The Euro may be good for German exporters, certainly not good for Italian banks or European people.
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Why is the Euro always the bogeyman? The Italian economy used to be comparable to the German economy, with equivalent GDP per capitas.

    In fact, Germany used to be the "sick man of Europe", back in the early 2000s. Germans were pretty annoyed at how the French had forced the Euro on them (as a prerequisite for re-unification). If it weren't for the economic crisis (in which Merkel screwed over the EU with her obsession with austerity), they probably wouldn't be so far ahead of the other major EU economies.

    Democracy in Italy is probably doomed. Mussolini is probably more popular today than he was back in WWII, at least in the south of Italy, but that goes far deeper than the recent refugee influx. Just wait until the next, inevitable, wave of refugees.
    The Euro is the bogeyman because it is not good for countries when things go south. On paper it's a brilliant idea because it makes international trade a lot easier, the only problem is the centralisation of the currency makes things harder when the economic downturn comes along because the country loses control of so many tools for sorting out the economy and as we have seen over the last decade different Euro countries need different levels of loosening of fiscal policy. For instance Germany could more or less power its way through with the actions the ECB took, probably could have managed with less; countries like Italy suffered but domestic policy could help management; and places like Greece were just a **** show.

    Being part of the Eurozone screwed Greece over because they have no control over interest rates, one of the simplest tools for trying to manage the economy; Greece did not have the power to devalue its currency because of the Euro, something else that would help Greece massively because it would boost tourism and maybe start to undo their woes.

    So yeah, the Euro isn't just the bogeyman, a lot of the time it is the problem.
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    This is pretty bad for the EU. One of the founding euro countries is now open anti-EU.

    The euro is basically a way for the dominant euro countries, especially Germany, to screw over the poorer euro countries, especially Greece.

    Which as the right wing on here seem to like imperialism so much I can't undertand why they dislike it. The strong prey on the weak.
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    (Original post by bob072)
    It will have no difference on us if our neighbours decide against political union and scrapping a failed currency. In fact, governments will be held accountable and want free trade with us, which the EU is making difficult for their own reasons.
    If you think that the collapse of the eu and the euro wouldn't have any negative effects on us you're insane dude.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    If you think that the collapse of the eu and the euro wouldn't have any negative effects on us you're insane dude.
    Why would it? The EU is doing the worst economically out of any other continent. You just insult people and call them insane because they have a different view, why don't you go and live in North Korea.
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    (Original post by bob072)
    Why would it? The EU is doing the worst economically out of any other continent. You just insult people and call them insane because they have a different view, why don't you go and live in North Korea.
    It's doing better than Britain but I'm not sure how that's relevant? If the eu/Eurozone collapsed the financial markets would have a complete fit.
    I was referring more to your belief that europe could fall over and wouldn't effect us than you per se.
    Why would I want to go live there? I quite like NZL thank you ☺️
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    (Original post by bob072)
    Why would it? The EU is doing the worst economically out of any other continent. You just insult people and call them insane because they have a different view, why don't you go and live in North Korea.
    It most certainly would have an effect here but that’s predicated on the whole thing falling apart not just a second country leaving.

    That wouldn’t collapse the whole project, however Italy would be a bigger loss than the UK due to its Euro status.
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