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Eurosceptic Majority in Italian elections watch

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    (Original post by bob072)
    It's not regional any more; that's a very serious allegation against what is now the third largest party.
    The Lega is still Northern-based.They did not elect any MP South of Rome. What's wrong in being regional, anyway
    (Original post by bob072)
    If you look at policy they (five star) sound fairly eurosceptic

    - repatriate and stop migrant "taxi service"
    - issue parallel Lira against euro
    - destroy Euro budgetary constraints
    - referendum on EU participation "at appropriate time".
    this is the past : now they want to sound reassuring. Its leader (Di Maio) has met industrialists, ambassadors, bankers etc and has tried to project a "respectable" image. The parallel Lira is out of the window, and the referendum on the euro has receded into the mists

    on migrants, they are saying that the EU should do more (i.e. distribute them among all Members States, instead of leaving almost all of them in Italy
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    A decade of economic decline didn't show you that already?
    paradoxically, the economy is in fact picking up. A bit too late to influence the elections
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    This is pretty bad for the EU. One of the founding euro countries is now open anti-EU.

    The euro is basically a way for the dominant euro countries, especially Germany, to screw over the poorer euro countries, especially Greece.

    Which as the right wing on here seem to like imperialism so much I can't undertand why they dislike it. The strong prey on the weak.
    this is really very superficial

    the euro puts some limits and controls on deficit spending and debt levels : and this is, in the long run, to everyone's interest

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    (Original post by Napp)
    It's doing better than Britain but I'm not sure how that's relevant? If the eu/Eurozone collapsed the financial markets would have a complete fit.
    I was referring more to your belief that europe could fall over and wouldn't effect us than you per se.
    Why would I want to go live there? I quite like NZL thank you ☺️

    Britain is part of the EU last time I checked.

    Yes, there would be uncertainty, but most separatists are not against Europe or trade, we could keep those in place in a free trading area but build a new Europe with national governments making their decisions.
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Democracy in Italy is probably doomed. Mussolini is probably more popular today than he was back in WWII, at least in the south of Italy, but that goes far deeper than the recent refugee influx. Just wait until the next, inevitable, wave of refugees.
    and this is even more superficial. Democracy is not all doomed in Italy : on the contrary, a ruling party (the PD) has been punished by the electorate, and will have to relinquish power following perfectly free and fair elections

    as to the eurosceptics, it is difficult to categorise the 5 stars as eurosceptics. Basically, it's just a "citizen" movement, calling for direct democracy, honesty etc etc and placing itself "beyond" right and left.

    a noble programme, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. In any case, its rhetoric has changed hugely in view of the lelections

    as to Mussolini being more popular today than during WWII, well this is perfectly true if you consider 1943-45, when war disasters and allied bombings had already taken a very heavy toll and a strong anti-fascist resistance movement developed

    but, Mussolini until 1940 was immensely popular in Italy, while now fascist sympathies are politically marginal

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    this is the past : now they want to sound reassuring. Its leader (Di Maio) has met industrialists, ambassadors, bankers etc and has tried to project a "respectable" image. The parallel Lira is out of the window, and the referendum on the euro has receded into the mists

    on migrants, they are saying that the EU should do more (i.e. distribute them among all Members States, instead of leaving almost all of them in Italy

    Their leader is important but not everything he says represents the party (especially with five star as members can vote online). Some members are very eurosceptic, the party is certainly anti-establishment. But if they fail to achieve reform on the Euro (and if it goes anything like David Cameron's negotiation they will) they would have a referendum.


    May I ask how you think the government will be composed? It looks like the Centre-Right isn't big enough so Five Star Movement will have to be involved, they could do it just with Lega or Forza Italia as well in a grand coalition.
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    (Original post by bob072)
    Their leader is important but not everything he says represents the party (especially with five star as members can vote online). Some members are very eurosceptic, the party is certainly anti-establishment. But if they fail to achieve reform on the Euro (and if it goes anything like David Cameron's negotiation they will) they would have a referendum.
    the referendum has quietly disappeared from the 5 stars rhetoric over the last year. Yes, the party used to be very anti-establishment, but this has changed dramatically : and even more so now, that they actually can hope to be in government. It is true that it's a very diverse party, with huge changes and somersaults in official positions. It used to hold many votes online, to stream online political meetings, but this also has changed a lot recently
    (Original post by bob072)
    May I ask how you think the government will be composed? It looks like the Centre-Right isn't big enough so Five Star Movement will have to be involved, they could do it just with Lega or Forza Italia as well in a grand coalition.
    actually (and paradoxically) everything now depends from the PD, the heavily defeated ruling party
    since neither the center-right (Lega and Forza Italia coalition) nor the 5 stars have the absolute majority, the PD could decide to support either of them (which would be enough for guaranteeing a safe majority)

    however, the PD has not yet decided what it will do :Renzi (its leader until now) wants the party to remain in opposition, but a part of PD wants to support the 5 stars

    so, it' either a 5star/PD government or a "technical" government by apolitical figures, until perhaps the electoral law is changed and new elections are held

    what seems impossible are a 5star/center-right alliance (they deeply dislike each other, and compete on the same ground for the same votes) or a center-right/PD one (politically next to impossible for the PD)

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    (Original post by bob072)
    Britain is part of the EU last time I checked.

    Yes, there would be uncertainty, but most separatists are not against Europe or trade, we could keep those in place in a free trading area but build a new Europe with national governments making their decisions.
    So? What has that got to do with what I said?

    Again i'm not sure what that has to do with what I said - I was simply stating the fact that if the eurozone or EU collapse it would decimate our economy [and many others]. Thats not a debatable proposition it is a simple fact...

    On that comment though - it strikes me as antithetical you saying Brexstremists arent against Europe, if they werent they wouldnt want to slam the door shut.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    So? What has that got to do with what I said?

    Again i'm not sure what that has to do with what I said - I was simply stating the fact that if the eurozone or EU collapse it would decimate our economy [and many others]. Thats not a debatable proposition it is a simple fact...

    On that comment though - it strikes me as antithetical you saying Brexstremists arent against Europe, if they werent they wouldnt want to slam the door shut.
    We aren’t against Europe we are against a political union.

    Put simply if we were in the EU’s predecessor we wouldn’t have left.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
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    (Original post by paul514)
    We aren’t against Europe we are against a political union.

    Put simply if we were in the EU’s predecessor we wouldn’t have left.
    Spin it however you wish but calling the EU the new 3rd reich and calling the French fascists [let alone what has been said about the rest of Europe] I find it rather hard to square these two i'm afraid...
    As is so often mentioned you et al. voters voted for a Brexit which is now dominated by Europhobes like Mogg and Johnson who do little but disparage Europe and the EU [they seem to view them as synonymous?]
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Spin it however you wish but calling the EU the new 3rd reich and calling the French fascists [let alone what has been said about the rest of Europe] I find it rather hard to square these two i'm afraid...
    As is so often mentioned you et al. voters voted for a Brexit which is now dominated by Europhobes like Mogg and Johnson who do little but disparage Europe and the EU [they seem to view them as synonymous?]
    The eu is Europe it’s a political system
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
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    (Original post by paul514)
    The eu is Europe it’s a political system
    And yet half the people who voted in the referendum had and have no clue as to what the EU is as evidenced by the fact 'what is the EU' was the most googled search term the next day..
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    (Original post by Napp)
    And yet half the people who voted in the referendum had and have no clue as to what the EU is as evidenced by the fact 'what is the EU' was the most googled search term the next day..
    One assumes that was none voters, why would any voter google that leave or remain
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    (Original post by Napp)
    And yet half the people who voted in the referendum had and have no clue as to what the EU is as evidenced by the fact 'what is the EU' was the most googled search term the next day..
    If 10 people Googled that, and nothing else got 9 searches then it would be the most frequently asked question despite only 10 people asking. There also aren't age demographics to my knowledge so for all you know it could be 13 year olds who are searching because they keep hearing about it. There is a lot of other stuff in the same report too, for instance on the whole remain areas were most likely to google things about leaving, and in 3 of the 4 EU countries with a "most searched" list given "what is brexit?" as the top search (the French had it as second. The report also has national support withing the UK constituents and most interest came from Scotland.

    Google Trends only gives you relative data, not absolute.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    You do know if the EU, or simply just the Euro area, collapse it will have a spectacularly bad impact on Britain right?
    boo hoo!

    Let the EU fail and Britain will make good
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)


    Which as the right wing on here seem to like imperialism so much I can't undertand why they dislike it. The strong prey on the weak.
    yawn, more student politics
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    (Original post by So-Sarah)
    boo hoo!

    Let the EU fail and Britain will make good
    Yeah, eventually the Americans may even let us become their 51st state.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    And yet half the people who voted in the referendum had and have no clue as to what the EU is as evidenced by the fact 'what is the EU' was the most googled search term the next day..
    Likely from our mentally challenged cousins across the Atlantic who heard about the referendum on the news.

    If Brexiters were the ones who didn't know what it was, surely searches would spike BEFORE they voted?
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    that tired old line has been used since the 80's, just more student politics as usual from the Left
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Likely from our mentally challenged cousins across the Atlantic who heard about the referendum on the news.

    If Brexiters were the ones who didn't know what it was, surely searches would spike BEFORE they voted?
    No this was in the uk.
    I didn't say brexiteers either, my point was a **** Load of people on both sides didn't know what they were voting for
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
 
 
 
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