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    (Original post by InstituteAndFacultyofActuaries)
    Why aren't a lot of girls going into STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) related study/work?
    Why is it any of your business you query the choices women make?
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    Hello, I'd like to ask what is the need for this urge to get females into STEM careers?

    I find the premise of encouraging a certain demographic into a field, odd. If they don't want to do it, why encourage it? Females aren't banned from taking STEM subjects and the idea of female participation in STEM subjects are common. Yet I see funding and effort go to encouraging females, wouldn't it be nice if those funding can go to actually helping individuals that are interested in STEM get the premium knowledge they deserve? Rather than to shove down this motion "WE NEED MORE WOMEN IN STEM CAREERS! WHY? BECAUSE DIVERSITY!" It'd be best if those that have existing interests and goals in STEM get the help and funding they need.

    If STEM Is male dominated- after all there is no balance in any subjects/fields- then so what? Sociology is prominently female found in many studies, do we now encourage males to take Sociology? I'm a male doing Sociology A-Level, my class is predominately females despite me going to an combined Secondary/Sixth Form school where the Secondary School is all boys and Sixth Form mixed. How come there's no Sociologists coming in raising the male ratio in Sociology?

    It seems as if some of you believe there's this secret power that females have that'll get unleashed once you get the male/female ratio in STEM to 50/50. No, there's no secret activation power that gets unlocked, let individuals do what they want with their free will.

    There's no need to "non-Stem" shame females into taking STEM subjects.
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    This probably won't be popular as an answer, but has anyone thought that maybe most women simply don't have the mathematical ability to do the hard STEM subjects like physics, maths and engineering? I studied Chemistry at university previously, and I noted the class was pretty much an even split of males to females. At my physics class in college, however, I was one of two females in the whole class, the rest were all males. No doubt the women that are capable simply aren't interested or it doesn't appeal to them
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    Jordan Peterson encapsulated this entire issue correctly. Men and Women possess subtle differences. Equality of opportunity doesn't breed equality of outcome. Girls will opt for subjects such a nursing whilst guys will opt for the likes of engineering.
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    I think it becomes a vicious cycle too; it can be intimidating for some to be the only woman on a course, or in a workplace, which puts some people off, and then worsens the problem further.
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    I've not read the answers but wanted to comment.

    I'm doing a level maths and starting maths at degree level with the open university this October.
    also, many schools offer stem classes now. girls are actively encouraged to get involved. my daughter's school has received awards for their stem achievements. this is a primary school.
    My niece's secondary school encourages stem too.

    I think we'll see a shift in the next 8-10 years or so.
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    (Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
    Well, aside from the fact that there is a lot of girls in STEM, there are many reasons why there may not be as many as men. Keep in mind that females outnumber or equalise males in every STEM-related subject aside from CompSci, Earth Sciences, Engineering, Pure Chemistry, and Pure Maths - other than that, most STEM-related degrees are similar in sex proportion.

    So why are women not choosing to go into the degrees/careers I mentioned above?

    1. Different life choices. Many women want kids and recognise that a career in a tough job like a Geologist may not be practical. Many women want a more stable lifestyle, with a nice balance of work and leisure, so choose to avoid STEM, as that heavily focuses on the former.

    ... (snip) ...

    4. Biological Difference:

    a) Men, on average are stronger. Some types of engineering lead to long working days and need for some physical ability. This may not be attractive to some females.

    b) I read a study a while back that got a bunch of male and female babies together. The researchers showed the babies a bunch of different objects. It was found the males were more interested in screwdrivers and mechanical 'stuff', and the females were more interested in human faces. Obviously, this doesn't bare any verifiable merit, but I think it may be a reason why, when growing up females are more empathetic and like to play with dollhouses, whereas males love to wrestle and f*ck about. This sort of inherent difference between the sexes may be reflective of career choice, with females going into things like medicine (in which there is a female: male ratio of 60:40) rather than Earth Sciences, for example. You may regard this as a small point or disregard it all together, but it's certainly interesting and something worth considering or looking more into.

    There are other reasons, tradition may be one, but other comments have touched on it already.

    Personally, I believe number 1 is by far the MOST important reason.
    Of the ten highest starting salary, entry level jobs, requiring a degree, nine out of the ten are male dominated (80-90% +). The other one, pharmacy is split, broadly 50 / 50, but trends show this will soon be another female dominated STEM profession going forward.

    Of the ten lowest starting salary, entry level jobs, requiring a degree, (care work, psychology, psychotherapy, speech, music and dance therapy, English lit.) all ten are female dominated (70-90% +).

    Behavioral psychologists have studied this for decades. From the ages off around two to four, and going forward for the rest of their lives, in general, females are more interested in people, males are more interested in things. This is borne out in the life choices and career paths they choose.

    In the societies were social conditioning bias has been flattened out the most, particularly the more 'democratic socialist' countries of Scandinavia, the variance is mostly done to biological difference.

    Differences in physical strength, hormones, psychology, brain structure is far more relevant, and immutable, than so called social conditioning.

    However, this is were the proponents of identity politics are wrong on the fundamentals. There is more variation within gender groups, than between gender groups. There is nothing, these days, stopping men or women, pursuing any life path they are capable of performing, if they so choose.
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    (Original post by Muttley79)
    I see no progress since I was at school myself many years ago now. Linear A levels will make it harder for girls again as will removing GCSE coursework.
    Yes, it will make it harder for girls to achieve the grades that were once easier for them during coursework-era. Although, that's because girls were given a higher advantage to their suitability with coursework.

    Yes, it became harder for girls because they now have lost the formula which gave them a better advantage over boys. Now, the grades received by both boys and girls were become normalised. Yes! Diversity!
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    (Original post by Sufyaan65)
    Yes, it will make it harder for girls to achieve the grades that were once easier for them during coursework-era. Although, that's because girls were given a higher advantage to their suitability with coursework.

    Yes, it became harder for girls because they now have lost the formula which gave them a better advantage over boys. Now, the grades received by both boys and girls were become normalised. Yes! Diversity!
    Coursework was brought in because BOYS were favoured by the previous exam system - multiple choice type and linear papers. A system needs to be found that is fair to BOTH genders. We haven't got that now.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    This probably won't be popular as an answer, but has anyone thought that maybe most women simply don't have the mathematical ability to do the hard STEM subjects like physics, maths and engineering? I studied Chemistry at university previously, and I noted the class was pretty much an even split of males to females. At my physics class in college, however, I was one of two females in the whole class, the rest were all males. No doubt the women that are capable simply aren't interested or it doesn't appeal to them
    That's just not true in every case. I used to regularly come top in Physics exams and beat all the boys - one of them now works at CERN!
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    (Original post by Muttley79)
    That's just not true in every case. I used to regularly come top in Physics exams and beat all the boys - one of them now works at CERN!
    Yes, hence why I said 'most women' and not 'all women'
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    I'm part of Girlguiding's national 'action for change project' which aims to encourage activism and develop campaigning skills for young women. I chose to develop my campaign about women in STEM (or rather lack of). In my opinion there's a lack of awareness of jobs in STEM and a very limited number of female 'role models' in STEM. I've started a blog highlighting the achievements of women in STEM to try to combat that - if you're passionate about this subject and would like to check it out, please do!! Or share with others you think would enjoy it! https://feminscientist.wordpress.com
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    (Original post by Goz Unlimited)
    Do you believe that lack of encouragement is the main factor? Females outstrip males in subject areas: Medicine & Dentistry, Biological Sciences and Veterinary Science. Is this down to too much encouragement for females in those subject areas?
    I remember reading about the ratio of men to women when it came to medicine and women make up the majority. Also, a lot of women are going into biological sciences as well.
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    (Original post by 06moca1)
    I remember reading about the ratio of men to women when it came to medicine and women make up the majority.
    Not quite - it's heading towards 50:50 but not there yet (except for GPs) https://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/regis...arch_stats.asp
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    (Original post by 06moca1)
    I remember reading about the ratio of men to women when it came to medicine and women make up the majority. Also, a lot of women are going into biological sciences as well.
    I believe it's true for university courses (I used this source yesterday for information -
    https://www.timeshighereducation.com...t-course-level) but there'll be differences in the actual employment sectors due to more factors. There's nothing wrong with a males or females leading in certain areas tbh. Better to have people studying and working in sectors they are interested in and enjoy than try to coerce people into areas that they may well not enjoy as much despite being proficient at.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Not quite - it's heading towards 50:50 but not there yet (except for GPs) https://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/regis...arch_stats.asp
    I was referring to medicine as a university course.
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    (Original post by 06moca1)
    I was referring to medicine as a university course.
    With 2/3rds of consultants as men atm it's going to take a long time of 57:43 split on graduating med students to even that out. There's ~3,000 more women than men graduating each year at the moment and a 25,000 difference in men/women doctors overall (and nearly 29k difference in consultants). There's no stats on the gender split of qualified doctors who move to the UK from abroad. But the gender difference in qualifying medics isn't likely to get to level pegging across the profession for another 5-10 years or so.
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    (Original post by 303Pharma)
    Of the ten highest starting salary, entry level jobs, requiring a degree, nine out of the ten are male dominated (80-90% +). The other one, pharmacy is split, broadly 50 / 50, but trends show this will soon be another female dominated STEM profession going forward.

    Of the ten lowest starting salary, entry level jobs, requiring a degree, (care work, psychology, psychotherapy, speech, music and dance therapy, English lit.) all ten are female dominated (70-90% +).

    Behavioral psychologists have studied this for decades. From the ages off around two to four, and going forward for the rest of their lives, in general, females are more interested in people, males are more interested in things. This is borne out in the life choices and career paths they choose.

    In the societies were social conditioning bias has been flattened out the most, particularly the more 'democratic socialist' countries of Scandinavia, the variance is mostly done to biological difference.

    Differences in physical strength, hormones, psychology, brain structure is far more relevant, and immutable, than so called social conditioning.

    However, this is were the proponents of identity politics are wrong on the fundamentals. There is more variation within gender groups, than between gender groups. There is nothing, these days, stopping men or women, pursuing any life path they are capable of performing, if they so choose.
    Well, I mostly agree. Don't mistake me acknowledging that societal pressures are a factor for me saying they're the main factor or even a substantial one. I think societal pressures, exist, I mean, to deny this would be a bit naive, regardless of what you think of feminism. For example, I, a male, would never become a receptionist, mostly due to what my parents or friends may think. Now, there is nothing STOPPING me physically from becoming one, like you said, and I believe equality of opportunity between the sexes has been (broadly speaking) obtained within the UK, but there is certainly societal pressure that discourages both males and females from entering certain jobs.

    Is it a big, or main factor? Probably not in most cases. Is it a factor? Of course, it is, and I think denying that would be obtuse.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Nope
    https://github.com/bounswe/bounswe20...re-Development

    And saying women are put off engineering because of long working days and then listing nursing as "appealing" to women is another bit of nonsense (you'll also find that nursing is a physical job and has a lot of overtime!).
    Fair enough.
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    (Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
    Well, I mostly agree. Don't mistake me acknowledging that societal pressures are a factor for me saying they're the main factor or even a substantial one. I think societal pressures, exist, I mean, to deny this would be a bit naive, regardless of what you think of feminism.

    ... (snip) ...

    Is it a big, or main factor? Probably not in most cases. Is it a factor? Of course, it is, and I think denying that would be obtuse.
    I'm sorry if you thought I was saying that, making that mistake!

    I thought...

    Differences in physical strength, hormones, psychology, brain structure is far more relevant, and immutable, than so called social conditioning.

    However, this is were the proponents of identity politics are wrong on the fundamentals. There is more variation within gender groups, than between gender groups. There is nothing, these days, stopping men or women, pursuing any life path they are capable of performing, if they so choose.
    ... made my subjective opinion clearer.

    I certainly don't doubt socialization, and cultural norms, (including outdated gender stereotypes) do play a role. It's just, imho, not the main deciding factor. The jury is still out on this, even amongst professionals in the field. But as in much of the social sciences, political bias (from any ideological viewpoint) taints reaching conclusive, objective 'truth'.

    I should have made it clearer, that was my own personal opinion, based on the opinion of many, certainly not all, actually performing clinical measurement, and academically analysing the data.
 
 
 
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