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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    Nor, frankly, is the presumption you've made about it. It's easy to pick it up the next day, and it's on at 1:30am, at least for UK viewers. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't include digital and mobile viewing figures which, again, will be increasing year on year.

    All things considered, I don't think Trump voters are particularly the intended audience of the recent political drive, however; at least, not the ones who avoid it on that basis.
    Here's the thing, it isn't a "political drive" it is an awards show!

    There are plenty of appropriate forums for politics. We get more than enough of it on the web, in the papers, on television. It is all over universities, schools even, everywhere.

    Now people like you (in the sense that you admit you support this "political drive" ) want to even include sport (with the NFL take a knee movement which also cratered US TV ratings) and the entertainment industry.

    Too much. There will be push back. There IS push back. People are turning off, and you can't admit to yourself that they even are.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    That is a very old fashioned view, quaint even. I don't actually have a problem with it in principle, far from it, but it doesn't describe our contemporary political discourse, sadly.

    Both here and in the US we are bitterly, viciously divided. It is internecine. More akin to pre civil war situations than mature, balanced democracies.
    I'm not sure why you think that's exclusive or primarily a quality of the left or remain voters.
    Do you not recall those who voted remain being accused of hating the country and essentially committing treason? Or how Corbyn supporters are labelled communists or terrorist sympathisers etc?
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Here's the thing, it isn't a "political drive" it is an awards show!

    There are plenty of appropriate forums for politics. We get more than enough of it on the web, in the papers, on television. It is all over universities, schools even, everywhere.

    Now people like you (in the sense that you admit you support this "political drive" ) want to even include sport (with the NFL take a knee movement which also cratered US TV ratings) and the entertainment industry.

    Too much. There will be push back. There IS push back. People are turning off, and you can't admit to yourself that they even are.
    Yet things can be both, and a platform full of celebrities is a considerable opportunity for such a drive. People who don't otherwise have interest in politics, or any of the important issues talked about at the Oscars would have seen and listened to the important messages.

    I'm not denying that people are turning off, but I am pointing out that we don't know the reason behind it with any certainty.
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    Its all a bog scam and a waste of time.
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    Yet things can be both, and a platform full of celebrities is a considerable opportunity for such a drive. People who don't otherwise have interest in politics, or any of the important issues talked about at the Oscars would have seen and listened to the important messages.

    I'm not denying that people are turning off, but I am pointing out that we don't know the reason behind it with any certainty.
    OK, I'll rephrase my last post. People are turning off and you can't admit to yourself the reason they are doing so.

    There are few people more interested in politics than me on this website, frankly I am obsessed with it. I know how all important it is, trust me. What turns me off, though, are the kind of campaigns people like you obsess over, in your turn. The transgender bo!!ocks for example.

    Why? It is of such small significance in the scheme of things. A tiny tiny percentage of the population has a psychological issue and the other 99% are supposed to reorient reality to accommodate them. The tyranny of a tiny minority. Meanwhile huge, huge challenges confront our societies. The EU is in crisis, the middle east in melt down, Islam is on the march and the west is in decline.

    The great issues of our time in a political sense are being ignored while we debate transgender bathrooms. That's why people are turning off.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    OK, I'll rephrase my last post. People are turning off and you can't admit to yourself the reason they are doing so.

    There are few people more interested in politics than me on this website, frankly I am obsessed with it. I know how all important it is, trust me. What turns me off, though, are the kind of campaigns people like you obsess over, in your turn. The transgender bo!!ocks for example.

    Why? It is of such small significance in the scheme of things. A tiny tiny percentage of the population has a psychological issue and the other 99% are supposed to reorient reality to accommodate them. The tyranny of a tiny minority. Meanwhile huge, huge challenges confront our societies. The EU is in crisis, the middle east in melt down, Islam is on the march and the west is in decline.

    The great issues of our time in a political sense are being ignored while we debate transgender bathrooms. That's why people are turning off.
    Amen to that. Spot on. Couldn't agree more.
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    Abortionists were there along with some BLM apparently


    Good mix are they going to abort more Black babies?


    Name:  abortion-black-babies-AP-640x480.jpg
Views: 12
Size:  50.4 KB


    Btw what would y'all say if the above billboard was White? White supremacists.


    The double standards never end yet they'll talk a lot about privilege.
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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    I'm not sure why you think that's exclusive or primarily a quality of the left or remain voters.
    I don't think a sense of self appointed moral superiority is exclusively a quality of leftists or remainers, but it is a defining characteristic. Both regard those who hold a differing opinion as racist bigots as a matter of course, and the latter include a dash of intellectual and social snobbery.

    But if you want the apotheosis of a group of leftists who think they are morally better than everyone else, you'd have to look to a virtue signalling star of Hollywood. The locus classicus of undeserved, smug self regard and a sense of superiority.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    I don't think a sense of self appointed moral superiority is exclusively a quality of leftists or remainers, but it is a defining characteristic. Both regard those who hold a differing opinion as racist bigots as a matter of course, and the latter include a dash of intellectual and social snobbery.

    But if you want the apotheosis of a group of leftists who think they are morally better than everyone else, you'd have to look to a virtue signalling star of Hollywood. The locus classicus of undeserved, smug self regard and a sense of superiority.
    Bizarrely, you seem unaware that you are demonstrating every quality and attribute of the 'leftists and remainers' you so despise. Especially, the sense of moral superiority.

    You seem to be suggesting that people cannot honestly, nor with good integrity adopt a left wing approach to anything. To you, it seems anyone who disagrees with you is not merely wrong but has devious intentions.

    Why do you dodge the questions? How about the fact that the right and Brexiteers labelled our judges 'enemies of the people' and labelled those who opposed Brexit of being 'treasonous'? Why do you NEVER seem to complain when those on the right are doing exactly what you claim to hate?

    It's rather funny, both sides are complete echo chambers.
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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    Why can they not engage in politics? Aren't you doing that right now on this thread? I don't get this idea that celebrities and actors shouldn't be allowed to state their opinion.
    He never said they shouldn't be allowed to state their opinions and engage in politics (at least at the Oscars), just that they shouldn't. There is a difference.

    There's a time and a place for everything. An awards ceremony for film should be about film. Political statements and lectures from pompous celebrities can make audiences feel condescended and annoyed. It also risks alienating viewers. Just leave it out.
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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    Bizarrely, you seem unaware that you are demonstrating every quality and attribute of the 'leftists and remainers' you so despise. Especially, the sense of moral superiority.

    You seem to be suggesting that people cannot honestly, nor with good integrity adopt a left wing approach to anything. To you, it seems anyone who disagrees with you is not merely wrong but has devious intentions.

    Why do you dodge the questions? How about the fact that the right and Brexiteers labelled our judges 'enemies of the people' and labelled those who opposed Brexit of being 'treasonous'? Why do you NEVER seem to complain when those on the right are doing exactly what you claim to hate?

    It's rather funny, both sides are complete echo chambers.
    What is funny is your claim to be above the vulgar fray of political debate, immune to the weaknesses you perceive in others, an isle of reason amidst this sea of strife.

    I don't claim that the right wing in politics is free of the vices of the left, or rather a mirror image of them. That would be absurd, although obviously I don't accentuate these faults, and equally obviously I delight in pointing out the sanctimony and cant of the left (charges which you have not refuted, by the way).

    This thread is about how nauseating Hollywood film stars are when they preach political platitudes and signal virtue. If you disagree, have at it. But it isn't enough to indulge in a tu quoque attack on the right's corresponding faults, that doesn't defend these guys.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    What is funny is your claim to be above the vulgar fray of political debate, immune to the weaknesses you perceive in others, an isle of reason amidst this sea of strife.

    I don't claim that the right wing in politics is free of the vices of the left, or rather a mirror image of them. That would be absurd, although obviously I don't accentuate these faults, and equally obviously I delight in pointing out the sanctimony and cant of the left (charges which you have not refuted, by the way).

    This thread is about how nauseating Hollywood film stars are when they preach political platitudes and signal virtue. If you disagree, have at it. But it isn't enough to indulge in a tu quoque attack on the right's corresponding faults, that doesn't defend these guys.
    Because I maintain a degree of consistency. I call out those on the left, as I do those on the right. You seem exclusively to go on and on and on about one side while exhibiting those very same qualities you seem to be against.

    It's hypocrisy.

    I despise the outrage culture of those on both the left and right who exhibit it. You seem to be consistently going out your way to find things that offend you.
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    This is what the Academy Awards used to be like when people wanted to watch it. (Note the African American by the way, even in the absence of a diversity target, at the time. There because of extraordinary talent).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyZkOHcjyak

    You might argue who knows these songs now? It looks so dated, so passe. Fair enough, times move on and tastes change. But what has replaced it? It was something.

    Ashley Judd lecturing us on "intersectionality" before introducing a montage of white women, gays, transgenders and Muslims telling us solemnly how great it is that they're not white men is not a thing - it's a big nothing.
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    Simple.

    People are tired of the super-rich speaking about problems that they have haven't experienced, as if they are experts.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    http://fortune.com/2018/03/05/oscars...ds-viewership/

    Several possible explanations are advanced but could it be the most obvious?

    That millions of Americans are sick and tired of the millionaire Hollywood stars virtue signalling and posturing about Trump, #BlackFrocksMatter, Trump, Diversity, Trump ya de ya?

    I want to watch an actor act. They get very well paid for it, and I don't begrudge them a penny. Good for them.

    But when they open their mouth and spout politics they make me want to puke. Shut the fcuck up already...
    Yet you're fine with seeing billionaire, reality TV star, trust fund babies who are out of touch with reality become presidents?
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    TV audiences have been declining for years. Something called the internet, and this thing called Netflix, perhaps.
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    Lol I have actually never watched any award show in my life; too long too boring easily read a 5 minute article on who won on the internet....If I actually could be asked
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    (Original post by Eunomia)
    Yet you're fine with seeing billionaire, reality TV star, trust fund babies who are out of touch with reality become presidents?
    I am fine with an individual (of whatever background, rich or poor) winning the US Presidency in a democratic election.

    Aren't you?

    Do you have some problem with democracy or something? Are you a Remoaner too?
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    (Original post by KingHarold)
    TV audiences have been declining for years. Something called the internet, and this thing called Netflix, perhaps.
    Same old same old tired tropes.

    You obviously haven't bothered to read the whole thread.

    No-one denies that there is a long, slow remorseless decline in TV ratings. But how do you explain their falling off a cliff (a loss of one in five viewers) in just 12 months?
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    (Original post by generallee)
    I am fine with an individual (of whatever background, rich or poor) winning the US Presidency in a democratic election.

    Aren't you?

    Do you have some problem with democracy or something? Are you a Remoaner too?
    You're the one who was whining about these celebs exercising their right to freedom of expression, Mr Pro-democracy. I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy.
 
 
 

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