Turn on thread page Beta

Trans Women To Be Allowed On Labour’s All-Women Shortlists watch

    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I don't think Trans stuff puts people off, but it probably would shore up the Labour vote when it is framed in contrast with how nasty the Tories are being.
    It will shore up Tory votes when it is framed in contrast how nasty the Labourites are being towards women. Wait til the day a man wins women's Wimbledon and it becomes mainstream how Labour supports that. You are very sorely mistaken if you think the vast majority of (particularly men) who aren't involved in the debate, don't think self ID is absolute nonsense.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    Yeah, it's all dressed up with nice fluffy words like progressive and compassion. It's all lies. We are (rightly) disgusted at the practice of FGM, but when the mutilation of healthy genitalia is done in the name of a progressive initiative, everyone is supposed to celebrate and unthinkingly support it.
    In what world is sabotaging a healthy functioning organ normal behaviour? If I said I felt I were one-armed man born in the "wrong body" therefore I wanted to amputate my healthy left arm to correct things, I have no doubt that people wouldn't hesitate to think I was mentally unwell.
    Indeed, the usual response to questions and points like these online is silence or block. Very dangerous. Not that I like the guy, but Sargon of Akkad was just now prevented by "antifa". The SA went to SPD gatherings to disrupt them. And they accuse others of being fascist, it's Orwellian.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The author of that article is utterly perverted. And why do these activiists conflate sex with gender?
    AGP is rampant among adult males "transing". There's also a large group who are into anime, with its hyper sexualized depictions of young girls, can't find the article either but someone wrote about the psychology of that. And many desistors share stories echoing that, where they felt uncomfortable in their body, got onto anime sights and were led down the trans path. Among the very young, social contagion and lobbying plays a huge role.

    Because they have to. Sex is an objective biological reality. Gender is whatever they say it can be. They need to erase sex otherwise nothing they say works.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Erm... who else are TERFs going to vote for?

    If embracing regressive ideologies like Islam didn't put them off voting for Labour, why would this?
    Because this has a much bigger, immediate impact than Islam.

    terfisaslur.com
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I think I will just ignore you for the time being.
    Common among trans activists. Ignore, shout, or block.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by zhog)
    This is all getting very complicated, what is the latest definition of gender? Is it the physical definition or the mental one?
    Little from column A, little from column B. The mind is influenced by the body - the problem is that it's now being acknowledged that gender isn't as simple as one sex characteristic like it used to be considered, and people prefer simple ignorance.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Common among trans activists. Ignore, shout, or block.
    Well you are to stupid to try and engage with. It's just this endless circular argument where poeple like you can't even engage contructivly with the premise sex =/= gender. Running around shouting you want to identifty as a tree or something like you made a cutting point.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Atleast by calling you a knob I signal to trans poeple that not everyone is a total arse.
    Presumably, by using hormones and suitable surgery that can be changed?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Well you are to stupid to try and engage with. It's just this endless circular argument where poeple like you can't even engage contructivly with the premise sex =/= gender. Running around shouting you want to identifty as a tree or something like you made a cutting point.

    Atleast by calling you a knob I signal to trans poeple that not everyone is a total arse.
    Gender critical which pretty much ever "TERF" is, says exactly that sex=/=gender.

    The problem is that you people conflate the two because you have to. If you accepted sex, there would be objective biological criteria for determining it, that 99% of the population fall into.

    You need to erase sex, so that you can instead focus on "gender identity" - which can be anything and has zero meaning.

    The reason you need to do this is because we have sex segregated spaces and within those, a male has no place, no matter how he identifies. By turning it into gender, you are able to break the boundaries of sex, by allowing anyone to "identify" into something.

    Doing that erases women. That's who you are.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Are you out of your ****ing mind?

    Gender critical which pretty much ever "TERF" is, says exactly that sex=/=gender.

    The problem is that you people conflate the two because you have to. If you accepted sex, there would be objective biological criteria for determining it, that 99% of the population fall into.

    You need to erase sex, so that you can instead focus on "gender identity" - which can be anything and has zero meaning.

    The reason you need to do this is because we have sex segregated spaces and within those, a male has no place, no matter how he identifies. By turning it into gender, you are able to break the boundaries of sex, by allowing anyone to "identify" into something.

    Doing that erases women. That's who you are.
    Why don't shout up your nasty bigot no one want hear your arrogant rants. If you kept up the hate against transgender people online your end up in prison.

    My child teacher transgender man and one of my best friends transgender woman.

    I spend time in South Africa and transgender woman was burn to death my a gang of women in a township.

    Transgender is not a choose it something people are born with just like being gay or straight.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by looloo2134)
    Why don't shout up your nasty bigot no one want hear your arrogant rants. If you kept up the hate against transgender people online your end up in prison.

    My child teacher transgender man and one of my best friends transgender woman.

    I spend time in South Africa and transgender woman was burn to death my a gang of women in a township.

    Transgender is not a choose it something people are born with just like being gay or straight.
    How am I bigoted, am I saying anything that is untrue? Do you accuse everyone whose opinion you don't like of "hating"?

    Ah homosexuality appropriation. How nice. Anyway, where did I a) deny any of these things happening and b) say I approve of them?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Little from column A, little from column B. The mind is influenced by the body - the problem is that it's now being acknowledged that gender isn't as simple as one sex characteristic like it used to be considered, and people prefer simple ignorance.
    I suppose the libertarian question is whether there is room for flexibility on the definition of gender anymore or... not. I wouldn't say it is being acknowledged that gender is more than a biological matter, that is staking a claim to the final word without making a case for it and the question I'd put is this:

    Is there a problem with the view that gender is a biological matter and not of-self definition? That one's chromosomes define gender alone? Is that an acceptable view to hold or are we headed towards criminalizing it? The freedom to view it that way, does it need addressing?

    I actually know a transgender kid, been around a few times in the past and we played the guitar together so... don't anyone bother with the hate stuff. Talking about freedom of thought in general, that's all.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    How am I bigoted, am I saying anything that is untrue? Do you accuse everyone whose opinion you don't like of "hating"?

    Ah homosexuality appropriation. How nice. Anyway, where did I a) deny any of these things happening and b) say I approve of them?
    I bisexual working class white women with mixed race son. You rants online about trans women are hateful and ill informed. I don't want a middle class feminist think because she a woman that she understand me because you don't.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by looloo2134)
    I bisexual working class white women with mixed race son. You rants online about trans women are hateful and ill informed. I don't want a middle class feminist think because she a woman that she understand me because you don't.
    Have I said that I "understand you"?

    My rants aren't about trans women as a whole, certainly about certain grown men, often white, that suffer from AGP but have jumped on the trans bandwagon. They are about the trans lobbying agenda, that is erasing women.

    They are neither ill informed (if anything the trans activists are usually ill informed and consider any research or logical argument as "transphobic") nor hateful.

    Group A gets together and says we are A, anyone with these characteristics is a member, and achieves some rights for themselves. Group B comes along, they don't meet the characteristics but tell A "well I identify with you, now let me into the spaces you fought for". You are essentially saying that A has to give in. Utter nonsense.

    Of course plenty of trans activists realize that that is bs, so what do they do? They redefine those characteristics, erasing them (biology is said to not matter) and say "identity" is all that matters. Identity being neither objective nor having any basis in reality.

    Trans people are more than welcome to fight for rights for themselves. They are not welcome to **** all over women.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Have I said that I "understand you"?

    My rants aren't about trans women as a whole, certainly about certain grown men, often white, that suffer from AGP but have jumped on the trans bandwagon. They are about the trans lobbying agenda, that is erasing women.

    They are neither ill informed (if anything the trans activists are usually ill informed and consider any research or logical argument as "transphobic" nor hateful.

    Group A gets together and says we are A, anyone with these characteristics is a member, and achieves some rights for themselves. Group B comes along, they don't meet the characteristics but tell A "well I identify with you, now let me into the spaces you fought for". You are essentially saying that A has to give in. Utter nonsense.

    Of course plenty of trans activists realize that that is bs, so what do they do? They redefine those characteristics, erasing them (biology is said to not matter) and say "identity" is all that matters. Identity being neither objective nor having any basis in reality.

    Trans people are more than welcome to fight for rights for themselves. They are not welcome to **** all over women. If you think that's "hateful" then I dare say you're a bigot.
    As an ill informed feminist you rant on about women you have not said anything about transgender men entering male spaces such as changing room
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by looloo2134)
    As an ill informed feminist you rant on about women you have not said anything about transgender men entering male spaces such as changing room
    Your point being? Are you just deflecting from the issue?

    Sounds a lot like "you donate to a dog's charity, what a bout cats you ****ing catphobe".

    Also funny that you dismiss the arguments as "rants" because you are unable to argue logically against them. All you have is emotion.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by zhog)
    . I wouldn't say it is being acknowledged that gender is more than a biological matter,
    Nor is that what I said (not being an adherent of body-mind dualism). But, let's not pretend that a genotype means the phenotype is wrong and to be ignored.

    Is there a problem with the view that gender is a biological matter and not of-self definition? That one's chromosomes define gender alone? Is that an acceptable view to hold or are we headed towards criminalizing it? The freedom to view it that way, does it need addressing?
    The question of freedoms has always been simpler than people try to make it - Your freedoms end where they infringe on the freedoms of another person, because you are not special. So, if holding that view means you restrict the freedom of those that live outside of that view then it is a problem.


    Given it was bought up, isn't it odd AAP (autoandrophilia) never gets suggested for any trans-men. Almost like AGP is more of a get-out for dismissing trans-women rather than a genuine phenomenon...
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Your point being? Are you just deflecting from the issue?

    Sounds a lot like "you donate to a dog's charity, what a bout cats you ****ing catphobe".
    nice to see because you can't win you start being childish.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by looloo2134)
    nice to see because you can't win you start being childish.
    There is nothing childish about that analogy.

    What is childish on the other hand, is using what the other person just said.

    - "You're stupid"
    - "No you are"
    - "No you"
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Okay.
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It does if that shortlist is there to ensure than a certain number of women are guaranteed to get selected, becuase you are a feminist party.
    tbf they could just... not do that.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: March 11, 2018
The home of Results and Clearing

3,091

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.