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Do Labour Supporters welcome the convergence of Labour and the Communists? watch

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    (Original post by munchm_)
    How is it subversion?
    You made the first reply.

    And that reply was to NOT talk about Labour and Communism, but to attack the Conservatives and their alliance with the DUP.

    The thread was not about the DUP, but you tried to make it about them.

    I call that subversion. Maybe a little fanciful language, but the idea is sound.
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    (Original post by Pigster)
    You made the first reply.

    And that reply was to NOT talk about Labour and Communism, but to attack the Conservatives and their alliance with the DUP.

    The thread was not about the DUP, but you tried to make it about them.

    I call that subversion. Maybe a little fanciful language, but the idea is sound.
    In my reply, I dedicated one sentence to the DUP. The rest of my post discussed the alleged convergence between Labour and Communists. That post was mostly talking about the topic at hand.

    You're right, this thread isn't about the DUP. I knew that. That's why I mentioned them in passing. It isn't my fault that all the responses to that post are about the DUP.

    I attacked everyone in that first post. You literally saw me do it. Arguably, you are the one subverting the thread by being this caught up in semantics.
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    I do feel uncomfortable at my local labour party chapter over the past few years.

    Far too heavy on nationalizing of banks and £15 minimum wage. Equality overdirve too many SJW issues like gender neutral toilets

    They dont seem to understand minimum wage is not maximum wage.

    I only still support them because I want leveson part 2, tuition fees abolished and less foreign intervention abroad
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Pretty much everyone knows that Corbyn is a hardcore Marxist, as is McDonnell, but over the past weeks, Labour and the Communist Party (Britain / Great Britain) are getting closer and closer - of course them not fielding candidates means almost nothing as they had an embarrassingly tiny vote share - but Momentum and JC's inner circle does include an increasing number of Communists on his teams.

    Labour supporters - are you going along with this? Labour allying itself with extremists?
    What's wrong with being a Marxist? Before you answer that bear in mind that there are different kinds of Marxists (he wrote a lot and there's quite a bit of room for interpretation and/or emphasis) and that, no, Marx was not involved in the creation or operation of the Soviet Union or any other authoritarian regime which claimed him as inspiration. Marx was not Stalin.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Poland , Japan, Israel and the US today

    All seem to be doing fine tbh
    None of them have closed door immigration. Any on of us, if we so wished, could go work in Poland for instance.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    None of them have closed door immigration. Any on of us, if we so wished, could go work in Poland for instance.
    Yes, because presumably we’re both westerners.

    Like Trump said- we want people from Norway etc, not ... other places 😂
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    (Original post by hannah00)
    I do feel uncomfortable at my local labour party chapter over the past few years.

    Far too heavy on nationalizing of banks and £15 minimum wage. Equality overdirve too many SJW issues like gender neutral toilets

    They dont seem to understand minimum wage is not maximum wage.

    I only still support them because I want leveson part 2, tuition fees abolished and less foreign intervention abroad
    Why is levrson part 2 THAT important to you?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Yes, because presumably we’re both westerners.

    Like Trump said- we want people from Norway etc, not ... other places 😂
    More than a little racist there.
    And as the Norwegians said why the **** would they want to come here or go to America when their country is much more civilized..
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    (Original post by Axiomasher)
    What's wrong with being a Marxist? Before you answer that bear in mind that there are different kinds of Marxists (he wrote a lot and there's quite a bit of room for interpretation and/or emphasis) and that, no, Marx was not involved in the creation or operation of the Soviet Union or any other authoritarian regime which claimed him as inspiration. Marx was not Stalin.
    1: The abolition of personal responsibility/ free will- ethically it’s pretty nihilistic when you get down to it.

    2: the belief in a purely materialistic, atheistic world. This might attract some people (it did to me when I was an atheist)

    3: it generally doesn’t appear to work- most people would rather live on the most successful capitalist countries than the most successful communist ones.

    The first two also apply to contemporary liberalism too.
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    (Original post by Axiomasher)
    What's wrong with being a Marxist? Before you answer that bear in mind that there are different kinds of Marxists (he wrote a lot and there's quite a bit of room for interpretation and/or emphasis) and that, no, Marx was not involved in the creation or operation of the Soviet Union or any other authoritarian regime which claimed him as inspiration. Marx was not Stalin.
    There isn't necessarily anything wrong with being a Marxist. But I believe their ideas cause numerable problems.

    Bear in mind, Marx was wrong about a lot of stuff, through both faults and no fault of his own. His work did make important observations about capitalism, but I believe his core principles can only be sympathised with if you don't care about the importance of individual human rights, as a premise.

    I've only just started learning about Marx, the man the myth...so I'm not too educated, but I feel this Wikipedia article offers a nice balanced overview.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_Marxism
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    (Original post by Napp)
    More than a little racist there.
    I’d include South Korea and Japan in that statement. Also Wakanda 😂

    And as the Norwegians said why the **** would they want to come here or go to America when their country is much more civilized..
    Nicer weather perhaps more job oppportunities, less Tax...more freedomz !

    (Also, why is it not racist to say that Norway is more civilised than the US?

    Also if it follows that it doesn’t make sense that Norwegians wouldn’t go to a worse country why does it make sense to allow people From worse countries to come into Norway🤔)
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I’d include South Korea and Japan in that statement. Also Wakanda 😂



    Nicer weather perhaps more job oppportunities, less Tax...more freedomz !

    (Also, why is it not racist to say that Norway is more civilised than the US?

    Also if it follows that it doesn’t make sense that Norwegians wouldn’t go to a worse country why does it make sense to allow people From worse countries to come into Norway🤔)
    Americans arent a race...
    Probably because some of them find it unconscionable to let them be blown to pieces by American and Russian bombs when they can do something about it. On a slightly more self serving note it also benefits them letting in smart foreigners
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Americans arent a race...
    Thought that was a social construct anyway ?😜

    Probably because some of them find it unconscionable to let them be blown to pieces by American and Russian bombs when they can do something about it.
    Perhaps a more viable solution would be to stop importing weapons to these countries?

    Canada too also has this problem...

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...vironment-arms


    On a slightly more self serving note it also benefits them letting in smart foreigners
    Possibly, but these are the people those countries need the most
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Why is levrson part 2 THAT important to you?
    I think information and true facts are one of the most important requirements of a functioning democracy.

    I watched quite a few of the witness statements at the Leveson inquiry, ordinary people who had children kidnapped or killed and totally taken advantage of by the media. Reputations ruined and smeared just to sell more papers.

    Media barons have a corrupting influence of democracy and I want their power to be curtailed. It will increase the ability of the average voter to inform the public debate and politicians more able to take policies they believe in with out some centrally planned conspiracy to tarnish them
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Why is levrson part 2 THAT important to you?
    Gramsci innit
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Gramsci innit
    Ay?
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    (Original post by hannah00)
    I think information and true facts are one of the most important requirements of a functioning democracy.

    I watched quite a few of the witness statements at the Leveson inquiry, ordinary people who had children kidnapped or killed and totally taken advantage of by the media. Reputations ruined and smeared just to sell more papers.

    Media barons have a corrupting influence of democracy and I want their power to be curtailed. It will increase the ability of the average voter to inform the public debate and politicians more able to take policies they believe in with out some centrally planned conspiracy to tarnish them
    To be honest, I’ll fess up to being ignorant on the subject of leveson,

    That said I will almost always err on the side if free speech as it is all too easy to descend into outright censorship, and I believe there are already existing (and some are already too censorious) laws in Place to addres these problems
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    To be honest, I’ll fess up to being ignorant on the subject of leveson,

    That said I will almost always err on the side if free speech as it is all too easy to descend into outright censorship, and I believe there are already existing (and some are already too censorious) laws in Place to addres these problems
    I think we already have a form of censorship, in the form if false information on page 1 and retractions 2 years later on page 20.

    I think what the aim of leveson was a tougher code of conduct. True we have laws but they need to be updated particularly in an age of click bait journalism. To change the cost benefit analysis of running a story

    A common tactic by the media to get around libel laws, was have a sister paper publish a story in america, and then the british paper says, oh its already in the public domain, now we can print it as well.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    ...
    Not all self-identifying Marxists outright reject 'free will' (though not everyone uses that term in the same way anyway). Otherwise, it's possible that we do live in a world where our sense of free-will is illusory. You don't like Marxists because they typically do not believe in Gods, ok but I don't feel like that entirely reasonable position needs to be defended. I've already drawn a distinction between Marxism and the various authoritarian regimes which have claimed to be Marxist.
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    Marxists believe in the abolition of class, money and the state, and as far as I know this is not the policy of the Labour Party, nor Corbyn...
 
 
 

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