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Student subjected to racist abuse at Nottingham Trent University watch

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    (Original post by Fruli)
    Yes, that’s your view, stick by it. Good for you. Just mind your emotive language please.

    I’ll continue being informed by research data not opinions from ordinary people, especially those who appear to be communicating trough their emotions.
    There isn't any definitive "research data."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/...grant-feeling/
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    Funny how 50% of this thread is about how the victim reported the incident, somehow implying some blame lies with the victim for the incident. Odd logic. Or perhaps it's an attempt to deflect?

    I think it's acceptable to report this incident to "EVERYOOOONE" that would listen: accomodation, student union, university, police, CAB, newspaper, Twitter, the neighbour next door... It's not like she waited 3 months before telling the police. I went to Warwick University and there was an incident there with a banana inscription with words "monkey" and "n*****". There is plenty of racism at Oxbridge too, so let's not pretend this is a lower ranked university problem. Seriously.

    https://youtu.be/74BzSTQCl_c

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    (Original post by Nottingham Trent University)
    We are shocked and appalled by this video. This vile behaviour will not be tolerated at NTU. We value being a diverse global community, with staff and students from across the world.

    We are in regular contact with our student who made the complaint and are providing support.

    The suspected perpetrators have been suspended immediately and we have begun an investigation. We are also cooperating fully with the police, who have launched a criminal investigation and have made arrests.

    It’s clear that there have been delays in dealing with this incident, and that is completely unacceptable. We will work with our accommodation partner to review our processes to ensure this never happens again.
    Hopefully there will be some mandatory racial sensitivity training for students after this.

    There wasn't at my university - unless you specifically went to diversity events, i.e. weren't a part of the problem in the first place, you didn't learn about racial diversity and tolerance.
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    Those claiming this has happened because people with low A level results have been let into university is almost as ironically narrow minded as the racists themselves...

    This happens in all areas of society.
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Hopefully there will be some mandatory racial sensitivity training for students after this.

    There wasn't at my university - unless you specifically went to diversity events, i.e. weren't a part of the problem in the first place, you didn't learn about racial diversity and tolerance.
    I agree, that would be good; mandatory training to not be so sensitive to everything others say
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    The outcome is good, they've been suspended and arrested, its evident that she was an easy target and I'm happy with NTUs response.

    Its funny how some peoole think its got to do with a level grades. Lol.
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    (Original post by NotNotBatman)
    The outcome is good, they've been suspended and arrested, its evident that she was an easy target and I'm happy with NTUs response.

    Its funny how some peoole think its got to do with a level grades. Lol.
    I don’t think it was to do with a levels but as someone who attends NTU I don’t want to be put on the same par as these sort of people and collectively labelled as “dumbasses” because of a few racist idiots who shouldn’t have got into uni in the first place, I’m worried it’s tarnished it’s reputation because they let people in who shouldn’t have got in in the first place
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    But it is not commonplace, when there is a racist incident it is often right on the news and ends up with severe punishment, and if you think that racism is a white thing then think again, go ask an angry pakistani what he thinks of indians, go talk to a Peruvian person and ask their opinions on chile, see what the Japanese think of the chinese (Obviously it is not everyone) it is certainly not a white only thing and things are clearly being done about these issues
    Your point is rather redundant. You purport to be shining a light on racism within other communities, but you've instead given examples of prejudice within races.

    "Go ask an angry pakistani what he thinks of indians". The vast majority of Pakistanis are Asian, and the vast majority of Indians are also Asian, therefore is not racism; it is prejudice.

    "Go talk to a Peruvian person and ask their opinion on chile". Well, Peru and Chile contain a multitude of ethnic groups, many of which are shared by both countries, so unless the race of the individual is specified, you cannot refer to it as racism.

    "See what the Japanese think of the Chinese". Again, Japanese people and Chinese people are both East Asian, therefore this is not racism; this is prejudice.

    I'm not quite understanding why you've used such baseless, fallacious points in order to shift the focus of this thread. It appears as though you've latched onto an unrelated point in order to push your agenda.

    Hundreds of racist incidents occur each day in the UK, and a very large percentage are unfortunately not reported to the police. In fact, I witnessed two separate racist incidents on the bus yesterday involving other passengers and I doubt very much so that either of them contacted the police.

    People are scared to report racist incidents to the police, in case we are seen as wasting police time, or reporting something which isn't deemed as important. As a result people are less inclined to report these incidents. This may seem irrational to you, however you cannot blindly refute the legitimacy of my point.

    Had this girl reported the incident immediately to the police, you would also hear many people complaining that she is "wasting police resources" due to the fact that they could have been "fighting real crime".

    Your point about "when there is a racist incident it is often right on the news and ends up with severe punishment" is rather untrue. The amount of racist incidents that appear on the news is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things. If a large percentage of racist incidents did in fact appear on the news each day, the news programme slot would have to be several hours long in order for the newsreader to detail all of the incidents.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    . Ay the moment all we know is this is one isolated incident. Considering hundreds of thousands of students pass through uni then its unsurprising some of them are racists..

    ?
    Ngl this is naive. It happens much more often than you'd think. Especially at clubs or on busses at night time. It's just that a lot of the time it isn't recorded. If the student in this one didn't record it, no one would believe her.

    To claim it's an isolated incident is ludicrous lol
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    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    Ngl this is naive. It happens much more often than you'd think. Especially at clubs or on busses at night time. It's just that a lot of the time it isn't recorded. If the student in this one didn't record it, no one would believe her.

    To claim it's an isolated incident is ludicrous lol
    Then why havent, there been more of this nature in universities?
    You dont know whether she would be believed or not. It would be investigated, but you need evidence or its her word against theirs. Any investigation requires evidence.
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    (Original post by Lily048)
    I don’t think it was to do with a levels but as someone who attends NTU I don’t want to be put on the same par as these sort of people and collectively labelled as “dumbasses” because of a few racist idiots who shouldn’t have got into uni in the first place, I’m worried it’s tarnished it’s reputation because they let people in who shouldn’t have got in in the first place
    When I was listening to the VC or whoever was the rep from the uni last night, she was horrified and they are taking it seriously.

    If its down to one member of staff at the accommodation partner not dealing with it or UPP not informing people then thats where part of the blame lies. I cant see what else the uni could do after the event?

    Immediate investigation.
    Arrested and co op with police.
    Suspended individuals following procedures, but expect them to expelled from the course along with any other discipline.

    They will then spend money on reading the riot at to UPP or even dumpping them, plus an awareness campaign and practical steps and helplines to make sure students know they can report direct.

    You cant really stop them slipping through as there arent screening processes for immature racists.

    I dont think rep will be damaged.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    When I was listening to the VC or whoever was the rep from the uni last night, she was horrified and they are taking it seriously.

    If its down to one member of staff at the accommodation partner not dealing with it or UPP not informing people then thats where part of the blame lies. I cant see what else the uni could do after the event?

    Immediate investigation.
    Arrested and co op with police.
    Suspended individuals following procedures, but expect them to expelled from the course along with any other discipline.

    They will then spend money on reading the riot at to UPP or even dumpping them, plus an awareness campaign and practical steps and helplines to make sure students know they can report direct.

    You cant really stop them slipping through as there arent screening processes for immature racists.

    I dont think rep will be damaged.
    I agree with you, people who said they didn’t do enough expect waaaay to much of services to act at the speed of lightning to get this sorted immediately, when meetings have to be held, discussions have to take place, witness information, victim information, police procedures etc all have to take place before arrests and fingers can be pointed. This sort of stuff takes hours and days, not seconds and minutes. I truly hope no rep will be damaged because the university is one of the MOST culturally diverse and caters to all ethnicities without fail. I personally think they’ve done the right thing and they’ve responded how any other national body could respond.
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    (Original post by thesmithscure)
    "Go ask an angry pakistani what he thinks of indians". The vast majority of Pakistanis are Asian, and the vast majority of Indians are also Asian, therefore is not racism; it is prejudice.

    "Go talk to a Peruvian person and ask their opinion on chile". Well, Peru and Chile contain a multitude of ethnic groups, many of which are shared by both countries, so unless the race of the individual is specified, you cannot refer to it as racism.

    "See what the Japanese think of the Chinese". Again, Japanese people and Chinese people are both East Asian, therefore this is not racism; this is prejudice.
    You are using your own definitions to define ... your own definitions. Pakistanis and Indians are not of the same race necessarily. Ask any Chinese whether he thinks he is of the same race as a Japanese man. East Asian means virtually nothing, and Asian even less. The east Asian area encompasses about eight countries and a couple of dozen ethnic groups. The Indian subcontinent has far more.
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    (Original post by thesmithscure)
    Your point is rather redundant. You purport to be shining a light on racism within other communities, but you've instead given examples of prejudice within races.

    "Go ask an angry pakistani what he thinks of indians". The vast majority of Pakistanis are Asian, and the vast majority of Indians are also Asian, therefore is not racism; it is prejudice.

    "Go talk to a Peruvian person and ask their opinion on chile". Well, Peru and Chile contain a multitude of ethnic groups, many of which are shared by both countries, so unless the race of the individual is specified, you cannot refer to it as racism.

    "See what the Japanese think of the Chinese". Again, Japanese people and Chinese people are both East Asian, therefore this is not racism; this is prejudice.

    I'm not quite understanding why you've used such baseless, fallacious points in order to shift the focus of this thread. It appears as though you've latched onto an unrelated point in order to push your agenda.

    Hundreds of racist incidents occur each day in the UK, and a very large percentage are unfortunately not reported to the police. In fact, I witnessed two separate racist incidents on the bus yesterday involving other passengers and I doubt very much so that either of them contacted the police.

    People are scared to report racist incidents to the police, in case we are seen as wasting police time, or reporting something which isn't deemed as important. As a result people are less inclined to report these incidents. This may seem irrational to you, however you cannot blindly refute the legitimacy of my point.

    Had this girl reported the incident immediately to the police, you would also hear many people complaining that she is "wasting police resources" due to the fact that they could have been "fighting real crime".

    Your point about "when there is a racist incident it is often right on the news and ends up with severe punishment" is rather untrue. The amount of racist incidents that appear on the news is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things. If a large percentage of racist incidents did in fact appear on the news each day, the news programme slot would have to be several hours long in order for the newsreader to detail all of the incidents.
    Racism often is used not just for race but for nationality too, and Chinese and Japanese and all the ones I mentioned are certainly different nationalities. None of this is baseless, it was an argument against that user saying it was a white people problem I was stating that it was a problem for most nationalities and races.
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    (Original post by Lily048)
    I don’t think it was to do with a levels but as someone who attends NTU I don’t want to be put on the same par as these sort of people and collectively labelled as “dumbasses” because of a few racist idiots who shouldn’t have got into uni in the first place, I’m worried it’s tarnished it’s reputation because they let people in who shouldn’t have got in in the first place
    I think the response from the uni was sufficient, so I don't think people will put all students into one category. But "they shouldn't have got into uni" is wrong because people get accepted based on academic achievement mostly, there isn't a questionnaire about whether they're racist or not, they're wrongdoings isn't the fault of the uni.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Racism often is used not just for race but for nationality too, and Chinese and Japanese and all the ones I mentioned are certainly different nationalities. None of this is baseless, it was an argument against that user saying it was a white people problem I was stating that it was a problem for most nationalities and races.
    It is a baseless argument, as the definition of racism is:

    racismˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/noun
    1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.



    Race is not necessarily akin to nationality, so the majority of your argument is flawed. It cannot be racism if the two parties are members of the same race. It can be xenophobic, or prejudiced yes, but not racist. Your hypothesis could only involve racism if the Japanese national that you happened to be talking about was a different race to the Chinese national, and the Chinese national that you were talking about was a different race to the Japanese national. However, the vast majority of Chinese people are Asian, and the vast majority of Japanese people are Asian, so this is not an example of racism.
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    (Original post by thesmithscure)
    It is a baseless argument, as the definition of racism is:

    racismˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/noun
    1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.



    Race is not necessarily akin to nationality, so the majority of your argument is flawed. It cannot be racism if the two parties are members of the same race. It can be xenophobic, or prejudiced yes, but not racist. Your hypothesis could only involve racism if the Japanese national that you happened to be talking about was a different race to the Chinese national, and the Chinese national that you were talking about was a different race to the Japanese national. However, the vast majority of Chinese people are Asian, and the vast majority of Japanese people are Asian, so this is not an example of racism.
    Racism is the practice of discriminating against people based on their race, national or ethnic background. Although old prejudices often live on, most people will agree that racism is unacceptable.

    Racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another, which often results in discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. Today, the use of the term "racism" does not easily fall under a single definition.


    Hence why I said often, many sources say racism can be race or nationality many sources differ but many would call chinese vs japanese insultes based on ethnicity racism
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    (Original post by NotNotBatman)
    I think the response from the uni was sufficient, so I don't think people will put all students into one category. But "they shouldn't have got into uni" is wrong because people get accepted based on academic achievement mostly, there isn't a questionnaire about whether they're racist or not, they're wrongdoings isn't the fault of the uni.
    A racist person clearly is not academically inclined. I know you find them at oxbridge, but that’s my exact point. They shouldn’t be there either, wasting spaces that could be taken by far better students. People will say “you can be academically intelligent but also a racist” but my response is if they are racist, surely that goes against the whole notion of understanding and being knowledgable? Because they are doing the exact thing that understand and knowledge teaches us is incorrect. A university cannot identify that, I understand, but I believe it IS an intelligence thing, because racism automatically has created that boundary between being an individual of empathetic understanding and accuracy and someone who THINKS they know and understand the world around them but are limited to the confines of their prejudice orientation. NTU aren’t at fault here, I’m not saying that are, I’m going against those saying “even clever people do it” - they aren’t clever. They’ve been conditioned into thinking they are by the grades put upon them by academically limited subjects. A racist cannot be intelligent because they’ve gone against the exact thing that intelligence warrants - understanding and collective knowledge. This is my opinion anyway but I believe it speaks volumes about the sort of people that exist within universities all over the country and some of which still remain in their places at university.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You are using your own definitions to define ... your own definitions. Pakistanis and Indians are not of the same race necessarily. Ask any Chinese whether he thinks he is of the same race as a Japanese man. East Asian means virtually nothing, and Asian even less. The east Asian area encompasses about eight countries and a couple of dozen ethnic groups. The Indian subcontinent has far more.
    I'm not using my own definitions. I never stated that all Pakistanis and Indians are of the same race; I stated that the majority of Pakistanis and Indians are (South) Asian.

    Of course, the definition of race varies throughout the world. Ethnic groups are not necessarily the same as race.

    If I were to formulate my responses based on the fact that "any Chinese" may not think that he is the same race as a "Japanese man", then my entire point would become based on subjectivity. Anthropologically speaking, Chinese people and Japanese people are members of the same race, although they may not view themselves as being such.

    This does not change the fact that "Pakistani" and "Indian" are nationalities, and the example "go talk to an angry pakistani, see what he says about indians" etc. is not indicative of racism, and is therefore a poor example. Prejudice or xenophobia would have been better used in this scenario.

    "Pakistani" is not a race, nor is "Indian".
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Racism is the practice of discriminating against people based on their race, national or ethnic background. Although old prejudices often live on, most people will agree that racism is unacceptable.

    Racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another, which often results in discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. Today, the use of the term "racism" does not easily fall under a single definition.


    Hence why I said often, many sources say racism can be race or nationality many sources differ but many would call chinese vs japanese insultes based on ethnicity racism
    From the Oxford Dictionary:
    racism NOUN mass noun
    Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior

    Yes, different websites may have different definitions of what racism entails, however, the general, official definition does not involve members of the same racial group being "racist" towards one another. On the same webpage that listed your initial definition, it goes on to say that a white person can be racist towards a black person, in the same way that a "Japanese person" can be racist towards a "German person". This is true, and this is most likely why that definition mentions "national background". However this is not necessarily akin to a Chinese person being racist to a Japanese person (due to the matter of race), and further more, that same webpage only lists official definitions that do not mention nationality.

    Let's put it another way; Indian and Pakistani and nationalities. Chinese and Japanese are nationalities. Peruvian and Chilean are nationalities. Nationality is not necessarily indicative of race, or ethnic group.

    If a white American said something negative or stereotypical about a white Canadian, would you genuinely class this as racism?
 
 
 

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