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Faith vs Religion watch

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    Disciple or Pharisee?

    Jesus says that to be His disciple we must forsake all which we have. (Luke 14:33)

    So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

    Faith is to commit to God, by making a choice on who we rely on for our needs. Whether we trust in God, or whether we trust in man. And to show this commitment we must, as Jesus says, forsake all which we have.

    So if a disciple follows, do we follow God by faith or do we follow man by religion?

    Is there anyone here in Christianity who disputes what Jesus says and why do you dispute it? And if not, why do you ignore what God says?
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    Luke and the other disciples had a bigger picture than just one verse.

    Reading on into Acts and the letters it is clear that they still had their professions years later + house and family.
    What Jesus is saying is do not put these before him and what he offers ... seek first these things and the others will fall into place and be a blessing.
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    (Original post by NJA)
    Luke and the other disciples had a bigger picture than just one verse.

    Reading on into Acts and the letters it is clear that they still had their professions years later + house and family.
    What Jesus is saying is do not put these before him and what he offers ... seek first these things and the others will fall into place and be a blessing.
    Hey mate, don't think our paths have crossed before on this forum have they? Anyway hi, i'm Drummond. Please don't take this as arrogant, but i have to be forceful defending the truth, because what you are saying is not the truth and here's why.

    It is very clear what God is saying, He is saying whosoever that does not forsake all that he has, can not be my disciple. Forsake means to leave or to abandon. This is faith. If you think that God is wrong in what He is saying with this one, then here are some more verses to cement the pattern for faith.

    - In Luke 18:18-25 a certain young rich ruler asked Jesus how to receive eternal life. And Jesus listed him the last six commandments according to each other. The man said he had kept these from his youth. So then Jesus gave him the commandment to sell everything which he owned and follow Him, which is to have faith in Him, the first four commandments. And the man went away sad because he had many possessions. He had no faith in God, only faith in himself, in others and in his wealth.

    - then in same chapter Luke 18 verse 28, Peter says, We have left all and followed thee, to which God replied, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

    After Christ was glorified and had risen the disciples carried on with the forsaking all. Here look at Acts 2:44,45

    And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

    And here also, Acts 4:34, look.

    Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

    Please show me these scriptures where the apostles have houses and professions and we'll discuss them. I know they sometimes lodged with other believers as they travelled spreading the good news. Remember, Abraham lived in tents, Isaac lived in tents, Jacob dwelt in tents and the children of Israel lived in tents too. Which professions did the disciples maintain also please?

    I think God is very clear about what He is saying regarding faith, following Him to receive eternal life. He has given us loads more scriptures which highlight this too if you want them?

    Forsaking all is to have faith in God only, because then we choose to rely on God solely for our needs, which is the very first commandment and most important. Faith.
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    ...
    Please show me these scriptures where the apostles have houses and professions and we'll discuss them. I know they sometimes lodged with other believers as they travelled spreading the good news.
    So these "believers" have houses?

    If you are interested in rightly dividing the word of God just read Acts, that will show you they had houses and professions to "pay their way".

    1 question: have you physically forsaken all that you have?

    Please answer honestly, before God.
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    (Original post by NJA)
    So these "believers" have houses?

    If you are interested in rightly dividing the word of God just read Acts, that will show you they had houses and professions to "pay their way".

    1 question: have you physically forsaken all that you have?

    Please answer honestly, before God.
    You don't see the pattern do you? Abraham left Charran by faith and lived in tents. Isaac lived in tents by faith, Jacob lived in tents by faith, the children of Jacob lived in the wilderness forty years in tents by faith. Then things went wrong which is for another thread.

    Then God came to us as Jesus to show us how to receive eternal life. So Jesus left His home and went in to the wilderness to demonstrate faith for us. Then His disciples forsook also all and followed Him. Then after, Paul did likewise, he went in to the wilderness, he lived by faith. Much of Paul's testimony in his letters is related to his experience of living solely by faith in God and then about how we die to the self under chastisement from God. God does this because He loves us, so we can receive eternal life. We can not receive eternal life without going through the process of dying to the self. Jesus died for us, as an example to follow. He is saying, Look if I can do it so can you. But don't think you are better than I and just because I have done it, you don't have to. At times the going is hard, but that is what dying to the self is, it is by no means easy. But our strength comes from our God who did it before, to show us the way home.

    Consider the ravens, they do not store food in houses and in barns. Think not what raiment or food you will eat for our Father knows we have need of these things. Why do you think God says these sayings?

    And to answer your question, yes i have forsaken all, to follow my God, Jesus Christ, but it was never mine to begin with, it was always His. And that is true knowledge and understanding, but you can only really understand this, when you forsake it all. Because that is when we make the choice for God to support us and no longer man and the world. What is there to be fearful of? That God is not here? Well He is, but only if we have faith.
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    Christianity? :nah:
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    Ah, same old nonsense from Drummond I see.Miraculous how he's given up everything. I presume he merely "Thinks" in his head the words he wants to appear on an internet forum and there they appear !! No need for a PC or laptop, no need for broadband access. Presumably he sits there stark naked having given everything, even the shirt off his back to others ?The problem with all of this nonsense is that it is just that, utter drivel.The human body has needs, that's how it was created or evolved. Without those needs you die.The crucial difference here in the Bibical accounts is that JESUS HAD THE PHILOSOHER'S STONE ! And as such so did his closest disciples so the commanment to give up everything of course worked back then.For the unitiated the Stone is a real substance created by Nature which provides huge amounts of life energy. The same energy we get tiny morsels of when we eat food or take in drink or breathe in air or sit in the sunshine.We don't get enough of that life energy and thus we age, get sick and die. Simple as.Those lucky enough to have the Stone (Elixir Of Life) have masses of life energy and as a result they have perfect health and massive longevity. Also their bodies do not feel the effects of extreme heat or cold. Since it gives the body all the energy it needs to do its own thing (e.g. heal itself) then there is no longer a need to eat or drink. All the energy you need is coming from the Stone.Hence if you have the Stone it really is true that you CAN give up everything because really what do you need? You don't need to work to earn money to buy food and drink anymore. Neither do you need a house to stay warm. Jesus had the Stone, absolutely no question. The book of Genesis itself describes the processes for making this Elixir.Having the Stone allowed Jesus to survive in the wilderness for 40 days/nights without food or drink. It allowed him to survive the extreme temperatures in the wilderness. Equally it allowed him to survive crucifixion and death. I don't belittle the suffering he endured in that awful ordeal, but the Stone saved him ultimately.If you give up everything today and do not have the Stone, then you will die unless you constantly cadge things off someone else, your food, drink, clothes, shelter and so on.So is Drummond a perpetual cadger of others? Does he have the Stone? Or is he lying about having given up everything?It's matterless.The Bible is NOT a literal work. Quoting scripture is futile unless you understand the allegorical and cryptic references.The Bible recounts numerous key figures. Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses, Jesus etc. They ALL had the Stone, the Elixir Of Life, the "Tree Of Life" and hence things were different to how they are now. A select hidden few control the Stone now and keep it from the rest of humanity and as a result we age, suffer and die.Pointless giving up all you own if you are not going to receive the Stone in place of those things.
 
 
 
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