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    (Original post by h333)
    I’m speechless tbh
    May Allah protect us all Ameen
    They've only put them through the doors of people on London and the Midlands and I think people are you already calling the 101 number, I'm sure it won't actually happen.

    Amen.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Islamophobia: A dislike of Islam, especially as a political force. (OED)

    Why wouldn't that be real? People have beed Islamophobic for 1400 years!


    Source?
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    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    No. It doesn't it makes Blair responsible. He may have read a certain verse from the bible or any other Christian text, however, what if he misinterpreted it? You can't blame a whole religion for acts of stupid people.

    Don't blame the religion, blame the person.
    If explicit instuructions are contained in the scripture, then the religion is partly to blame!

    The Quran and sunnah permit the use of female catives for sex. When ISIS use female captives for sex and cite the Quran and sunnah as justification, how is Islam not partly to blame for their actions?

    The Quran says that people guilty of certain "crimes" should be crucified. When ISIS crucify people guilty of those "crimes", how is Islam not partly responsible.

    You are in obvious denial!

    It's funny how when ever somebody commits an outrageous act and links it to religion, people blame the religion. But whenever somebody does something good in the name of religion, nobody notices.
    What!?
    You have just done exactly the same thing!! You are claiming that none of the bad stuff that Muslims do in the name of Islam has anything to do with Islam.

    Also, I don't claim that religion doesn't influence people to do good, because it obviously does. But it obviously influences people to do bad stuff as well.
    You are the one ignoring one half and only acknowledging the other.
    Oh, the irony is making my teeth hurt!
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    I find this sickening and horrifying that we have people in this world whose minds' work this way. The only people that deserve to be punished are the people who came up with this idea.
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    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    I 100% agree with you. There is such thing as false Muslims too. No religion promotes violence.

    I was trying to make Stewpid, see things from a different perspective. Of course I do not believe Christianity is responsible for the Iraq war, it was Blair who made the decision, not Christianity.

    Just as when ISIS carry out attacks, it's their choice, Islam isn't to blame, they only have themselves to blame.
    Don't take the biscuit. ISIS are centered around Islam wheras the war in Iraq wasn't.
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    (Original post by Fazzy_77)
    Firstly, who are you to tell me that I haven't learnt and studied my religion independently? There was actually a time when I was losing all faith and hardly practicing the religion. After looking for guidance (not from muslims) and doing much research I realised the truth.
    Secondly, what did I cherry pick?
    Because it is easy to tell someone who is brainwashed and blindly parroting what they have been told by other people. Whether Christian, Scientologist, Muslim, whatever.

    When they argue by referencing their words of their holy book of prophet, and not their own thoughts, and simply repeat interpretations of scripture, you know what's what and what category people fall into.

    You cherry pick a verse and claim Allah was talking about Isis, and calling them the worse of humanity. Trying to claim that the book is not a basis for their actions, and Allah or Mohammed taught something different.

    Yet a few pages up you quote verse 5.33 where it talks about chopping people's hands and feet off for those who have caused war (or something like) as a counter argument to QE2 when he mentioned verse 5.32.

    ''The recompense of those who fight against God and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth causing disorder and corruption: they shall (according to the nature of their crime) either be executed, or crucified, or have their hands and feet cut off alternately, or be banished from the land. Such is their disgrace in the world, and for them is a mighty punishment in the Hereafter''

    Anyone Muslims believe to causing disorder and corruption, which could be any number of transgressions that fall within that category is fair game to be executed, crucified or have their hands and feet cut off?


    Thats the verse you reference as some kind of counter argument to this one:

    ''Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.''


    How could you believe such lunacy? Unless you feel into that category I talked about, no rational, sane person could. You have to hold so many contradictions and such a lack of critical thought.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Theres a significant number of people who do not like and oppose any religion.

    It doesnt have to be integrated in your sense (which is false) that people have to like it
    . They do have to follow the laws of the country.
    The uncomfortable truth is that most non-Muslims do not like Islam. This is dislike is stronger for Islam than it is for any other religion. That is why the government has to go out of its way to supress any criticism of Islam under the rubric of Islamophobia and hate speech laws. That such things are necessary in the first place demonstrate that the dislike of Islam is in a class of its own.

    You say it doesn't have to be liked, but if non-Muslims don't like Islam or can never see themselves liking Islam (even just a few aspects), then its presence and influence will never be truly welcome.
    No non-Muslim in this country welcomes the construction of a new mosque in their area or the increase in veiled women with joy and admiration. No non-Muslim thinks a child getting an "Islamic education" is a great thing. They just politely "tolerate" it. But to tolerate is to put up with something that one that does not inherently like - I think this point is often forgotten these days.
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    Very disgusting, They are willing to kill women, elderly and children.
    Someones doctor,dentist, teacher, caretaker, Coach, friend...the point is we muslims are just people too. And is disgusting such a thing is even a thing, its as though we haven't learn from history.

    Isis have killed more muslims than non muslims, they do not represent Islam. We condem them and double triple condem them, We hate them more than any non muslim hates them. So why

    I hope people are smart enough to not do this.
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    (Original post by Fazzy_77)
    From reading this I can see that you're actually extremely uneducated in Islam and therefore, I don't see any point in arguing further. I would urge you to learn about the religion (properly) before speaking about it. Anyways, I pray that Allah guides you so you may see the truth.
    He explained the point extremely well and provided sources. Instead of blindly accusing someone of being ignorant when they show you parts of your faith that are despicable, why don’t you actually provide a counter argument?
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    (Original post by Fazzy_77)
    From reading this I can see that you're actually extremely uneducated in Islam and therefore, I don't see any point in arguing further.
    If I am so uneducated and mistaken about it, you will be able to show this with references to scripture and leading scholars.

    However, instead you just run off claiming the oh-so-usual "I know the answer, but I'm not telling you".

    I would urge you to learn about the religion (properly) before speaking about it. Anyways, I pray that Allah guides you so you may see the truth.
    With all due respect, reading the Quran, sunnah, classical tafsir and biographies like Ibn Ishaq are a much better way of learning about Islam than watching some YouTube videos and listening to your imam cherry-pick readings and making up stuff. However, it does take a bit more effort so I'm not surprised that you haven't bothered. But seriously, it is worth it if you want to understand Islam properly.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Tbf you might want to start your own thread about muslims and your issues with them, rather than sidetrack this one. This was about the letters as a specific event.

    It's not ''my issues with them''. It's the issues inherent in a warped, dangerous, violent religion and far too many of its followers who make it so by their actions, attitudes and customs throughout the world. .

    You don't have any arguments. You just have sly insinuations. So typical.
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    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    No religion promotes violence.
    Seriously? Have you never read the Quran or the Old Testament.

    It's meaningless platitudes like that which make me wonder if you're not just trolling.

    Just as when ISIS carry out attacks, it's their choice, Islam isn't to blame, they only have themselves to blame.
    So when you pay zakat or perform hajj, or dress modestly that's just you, nothing to do with Islam?
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    The uncomfortable truth is that most non-Muslims do not like Islam. This is dislike is stronger for Islam than it is for any other religion. That is why the government has to go out of its way to supress any criticism of Islam under the rubric of Islamophobia and hate speech laws. That such things are necessary in the first place demonstrate that the dislike of Islam is in a class of its own.

    You say it doesn't have to be liked, but if non-Muslims don't like Islam or can never see themselves liking Islam (even just a few aspects), then its presence and influence will never be truly welcome.
    No non-Muslim in this country welcomes the construction of a new mosque in their area or the increase in veiled women with joy and admiration. No non-Muslim thinks a child getting an "Islamic education" is a great thing. They just politely "tolerate" it. But to tolerate is to put up with something that one that does not inherently like - I think this point is often forgotten these days.
    1. Why is it uncomfortable?
    2. You miss the point that most people dont care.
    3. There is no reason to have to like Islam or be interested in it, unless ofc people break the law. If thats the case then just like any other criminals they need to be brought to justice.
    4. Again you make a point that there are only two states, like or dislike, which is incorrect and false. Even then within those two sides there are variations. Just because you dislike Islam, doesnt mean that everyone does, nor does it mean that people who are less positive have the same level of dislike as you do.

    Enough railroading. Start a new anti mulsim/ islam thread or talk about the the topic subject of this thread which was in respect to the events of the punish a muslim day letters.
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    (Original post by Underground906)
    Because it is easy to tell someone who is brainwashed and blindly parroting what they have been told by other people. Whether Christian, Scientologist, Muslim, whatever.

    When they argue by referencing their words of their holy book of prophet, and not their own thoughts, and simply repeat interpretations of scripture, you know what's what and what category people fall into.

    You cherry pick a verse and claim Allah was talking about Isis, and calling them the worse of humanity. Trying to claim that the book is not a basis for their actions, and Allah or Mohammed taught something different.

    Yet a few pages up you quote verse 5.33 where it talks about chopping people's hands and feet off for those who have caused war (or something like) as a counter argument to QE2 when he mentioned verse 5.32.

    ''The recompense of those who fight against God and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth causing disorder and corruption: they shall (according to the nature of their crime) either be executed, or crucified, or have their hands and feet cut off alternately, or be banished from the land. Such is their disgrace in the world, and for them is a mighty punishment in the Hereafter''

    Anyone Muslims believe to causing disorder and corruption, which could be any number of transgressions that fall within that category is fair game to be executed, crucified or have their hands and feet cut off?


    Thats the verse you reference as some kind of counter argument to this one:

    ''Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.''


    How could you believe such lunacy? Unless you feel into that category I talked about, no rational, sane person could. You have to hold so many contradictions and such a lack of critical thought.
    When you can't even read my responses properly, I don't see why I should bother replying to you. I never said anything about Allah talking about jihadis and the worst creation.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    [/b]

    Source?
    What? Are you seriously claiming that the Quraysh didn't dislike Islam, (especially as a political force)?

    Try the Quran. I think it may mantion it in there.
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    (Original post by Underground906)
    It's not ''my issues with them''. It's the issues inherent in a warped, dangerous, violent religion and far too many of its followers who make it so by their actions, attitudes and customs throughout the world. .

    You don't have any arguments. You just have sly insinuations. So typical.
    Go and start your own thread, this one is about the letters.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    He explained the point extremely well and provided sources. Instead of blindly accusing someone of being ignorant when they show you parts of your faith that are despicable, why don’t you actually provide a counter argument?
    I wasn't 'blindly' accusing. I read what he had to say and realised that he doesn't understand my religion. Providing a counter argument would have been like continuing to argue with a pig.
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    (Original post by joyoustele)
    Isis have killed more muslims than non muslims, they do not represent Islam. We condem them and double triple condem them,
    Yet you won't condemn the passages in the Quran and sunnah that provide clear justification for their actions.

    ISIS crucify people for certain "crimes" because the Quran says that people may be crucified for certain "crimes".
    Do you condem the Quran for permitting Muslims to crucify people?
    No, of course not. You just claim that it is beautiful and perfect.

    ISIS use female captives for sex because the Quran and sunnah say that captives may be used for sex?
    Do you condem the Quran and sunnah for permitting Muslims to use female captives for sex?
    No, of course not. You just claim that it is beautiful and perfect.

    So don't pretend you condemn them, when you don't really.
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    (Original post by Fazzy_77)
    I wasn't 'blindly' accusing. I read what he had to say and realised that he doesn't understand my religion.
    Ironically, it is you who clearly doesn't understand it - as you have so ably demonstrated.

    Providing a counter argument would have been like continuing to argue with a pig.
    The correct Islamic response is "It does not befit the lion to answer the barking of dogs". (Imam al-Shafie)
    More lack of knowledge, see?
 
 
 
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