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Student sues Anglia Ruskin over "Mickey Mouse" degree watch

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Yes true but LEO etc is starting to gain traction.

    Incidentally, I note ARU's business courses on LEO do have a below average 5 year median salary (£23,700 vs average £26,300), but better than average unemployment (5.2% vs 7.5%)
    Factoring in regional differences £23,700 isn't too bad at all really.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Factoring in regional differences £23,700 isn't too bad at all really.
    Hmmm... Cambridge...
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Hmmm... Cambridge...
    Cambridge is a fairly small area of higher salaries, mainly due to the science-based careers in the city. Outside of Cambridge and outside of science, your earnings won't be great compared to the Home Counties or London. Lower salaries will be even worse in the neighbouring counties to the North and East.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    This is in fact the complete opposite. These universities are a huge benefit to both their local economy as well as the general economy. They provide a huge amount of value to their local society and economy.
    like I said value in terms of jobs, actual content of education and value added is very poor
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    (Original post by hannah00)
    like I said value in terms of jobs, actual content of education and value added is very poor
    Again, not true. These universities are providing so many professionals into diverse industries that other universities won’t supply, whether that’s down to them not providing the course or down to location.

    They help with access to various opportunities that wouldn’t be possible if they didn’t exist.

    The assumption that they are poor in terms of education or value add is just generated by those who buy into and completely over value the prestige argument.

    Slightly ironic that AR ranks quite highly in “value add” - top 35% of unis anyway and above Edinburgh, Imperial, Leeds, LSE to name but a few
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    (Original post by hannah00)
    like I said value in terms of jobs, actual content of education and value added is very poor
    Value added rankings are an interesting idea.

    We're told that unis are worth supporting because they're facilitating social mobility and the Sutton Trust is about getting disadvantaged students into prestigious universities...

    But maybe ranking that way we'd start getting answers we're not comfortable with... an american ranking found that the big name universities there weren't really pulling their weight with the social mobility heavy lifting.

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com...ocial-mobility
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    It would be both; assuming you're looking for graduate level employment, it would still be in part because of your degree. I'm largely outlining that situation for the former part of the statement, however; if the degree is poor enough to be the sole reason for your lack of employment, then that should be apparent whilst you are there.
    But that will put you at a disadvantage compared with other uni graduates. It is grossly unfair that people in my degree who needed to use an outdated coding system are disadvantaged against people from other unis who used the up to date program. "Transferable" skills are bull, that degree program automatically differentiates me as a lesser candidate because I've never used the programs required for Job A
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    But that will put you at a disadvantage compared with other uni graduates. It is grossly unfair that people in my degree who needed to use an outdated coding system are disadvantaged against people from other unis who used the up to date program. "Transferable" skills are bull, that degree program automatically differentiates me as a lesser candidate because I've never used the programs required for Job A
    I disagree - unis teach you the skills needed for programming, which shouldn't be language specific. Several unis only teach 1 or 2 languages, and I can't imagine any would teach all of them. I'd never used the programs required for Job A that I'm currently working in, but the fact I'd learnt a coding system meant it was quick to pick up; no uni will teach you the systems for every job, but that's not the same as them disadvantaging you, at least from my understanding of the situation you're outlining, apologies if I've misunderstood it.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    But that will put you at a disadvantage compared with other uni graduates. It is grossly unfair that people in my degree who needed to use an outdated coding system are disadvantaged against people from other unis who used the up to date program. "Transferable" skills are bull, that degree program automatically differentiates me as a lesser candidate because I've never used the programs required for Job A
    Which coding system?

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    “Despite being awarded a First Class degree she attempted to disrupt her own graduation ceremony in 2013 as part of her dispute with the university, an action which would have damaged the experience for many other graduating students. The student was asked to leave the stage and sat in a room adjacent to it. She was free to leave at any time and got up and left, of her own accord, once the ceremony was over"

    I bet she was admired by her peers and lecturers.
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    (Original post by Phillip Banks)
    “Despite being awarded a First Class degree she attempted to disrupt her own graduation ceremony in 2013 as part of her dispute with the university, an action which would have damaged the experience for many other graduating students. The student was asked to leave the stage and sat in a room adjacent to it. She was free to leave at any time and got up and left, of her own accord, once the ceremony was over"

    I bet she was admired by her peers and lecturers.
    I should imagine they were all thinking 'thank heavens that's the last we'll be hearing from that weirdo... 5 years later...
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I think this will continue as students begin to realise that they have wasted their money, time and effort studying not-so-great courses at not-so-great institutions.

    I have received flak for saying this on here and in real life, but young people need to wake up and start treating universities and courses like they treat us (customers). I honestly do not know what magic the woman expected the University at rank 72 to do for her. Educate her and send her to Goldman Sachs?

    Nick Timothy was right, many kids are getting a rotten deal with uni.

    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/ne...e-nick-timothy

    https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpos...f724d65175/amp
    I concur. I too, have been excoriated for saying that, and for saying that a technical degree would be required for a job in that field [i.e. a degree in engineering in order to get a job as an electrical engineer].

    From my perspective (across the pond), many of the so-called "degree" programs appear to be what would be qualified as a 'certificate' program here. I would feel that something like "hotel management" or "music appreciation" would be in that area. Before i started my bachelors degree program, i interviewed 5 or 6 practicing professionals in each of 5 different career paths - including medicine, law, and engineering. I asked (among other things), how much did they make, what would they do differently in their educational career (if they had it to do over), where did they see themselves in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, and what other options had they considered in their education.

    I settled on engineering, and later went on to get a masters in electrical engineering from an accredited uni here. I got my bachelors in 1969, so i've been in business for a while. I think i made a good choice, having lived in 14 countries over my career. Now i just consult a little on the side to keep my hand in. Cheers.
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    (Original post by Rabbit2)
    I concur. I too, have been excoriated for saying that, and for saying that a technical degree would be required for a job in that field [i.e. a degree in engineering in order to get a job as an electrical engineer].

    From my perspective (across the pond), many of the so-called "degree" programs appear to be what would be qualified as a 'certificate' program here. I would feel that something like "hotel management" or "music appreciation" would be in that area. Before i started my bachelors degree program, i interviewed 5 or 6 practicing professionals in each of 5 different career paths - including medicine, law, and engineering. I asked (among other things), how much did they make, what would they do differently in their educational career (if they had it to do over), where did they see themselves in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, and what other options had they considered in their education.

    I settled on engineering, and later went on to get a masters in electrical engineering from an accredited uni here. I got my bachelors in 1969, so i've been in business for a while. I think i made a good choice, having lived in 14 countries over my career. Now i just consult a little on the side to keep my hand in. Cheers.
    I agree.

    Although it has been mentioned before, i think there needs to be a radical re-think of tertiary education in this country.

    If a student pays £9,000 for his non-STEM degree with 4 contact hours a week, while another pays the same for her STEM course with 25-30 contact hours, then there may be a problem. This is when the post-graduation prospects are completely different.

    Also, I think there needs to be a new tiered system for universities. With this new system, students would realistically know where they sit in the grand scheme and what their prospects may be like. Then universities can charge fees according to their tier. Universities would move up and down the tiers, as annual independent performance reviews are done.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I agree.

    Although it has been mentioned before, i think there needs to be a radical re-think of tertiary education in this country.

    If a student pays £9,000 for his non-STEM degree with 4 contact hours a week, while another pays the same for her STEM course with 25-30 contact hours, then there may be a problem. This is when the post-graduation prospects are completely different.

    Also, I think there needs to be a new tiered system for universities. With this new system, students would realistically know where they sit in the grand scheme and what their prospects may be like. Then universities can charge fees according to their tier. Universities would move up and down the tiers, as annual independent performance reviews are done.
    How do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

    And contact hours are generally below 25 for STEMs too.

    Attachment 731004

    Maths is about 15. Not hugely different to Law, about 13.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    How do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

    How many contacts hours do steM (i.e. Maths) students have?
    I think the average for Maths is about 16 hours for lectures. When you add Seminars and Supervisions, it can be up to about 20 hours per week.

    I should just point out that this is average and it can be fewer or more hours.

    For some other STEM courses like Engineering or Medicine, it can exceed 25 hours per week.
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    I think that if we're going to go down the road of publishing much more detailed and revealing stats on what graduate destinations as has been discussed previously in this thread (which I don't think is a bad idea, especially given the amount students are now expected to pay for their courses), students must also be advised that, in the vast majority of cases, securing employment after graduation isn't just about studying a certain course (at a certain institution). I think part of the reason why this case has arisen is that someone seems to have been under the impression that a degree equals a job; most employers are looking for a lot more than just a degree, though.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I think the average for Maths is about 16 hours for lectures. When you add Seminars and Supervisions, it can be up to about 20 hours per week.

    I should just point out that this is average and it can be fewer or more hours.

    For some other STEM courses like Engineering or Medicine, it can exceed 25 hours per week.
    See my edit with attached chart. And seminars/supervisions/tutorials are all included in the contact hours.

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    See my edit with attached chart. And seminars/supervisions/tutorials are all included in the contact hours.

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    Can you provide a link to the evidence? The attached link does not work.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Can you provide a link to the evidence? The attached link does not work.
    You can't see the chart?

    http://www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-content/upl...nal_Report.pdf
    Page 6.

    And, again, how do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

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    If contact hours are what determined course fees, we will be screwed when it comes to trying to recruit nurses.
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