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Student sues Anglia Ruskin over "Mickey Mouse" degree watch

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    You can't see the chart?

    http://www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-content/upl...nal_Report.pdf
    Page 6.

    And, again, how do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

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    Yes, which? argues that average lecture hours for maths is 16.

    Contact hours help the student to learn the material from staff. For example, medicine has many hours because they need sufficient time to learn from the relevant persons.

    I think that more contact may lead to better understanding of the material which would lead to better performance. With better performance would lead to better prospects i.e. chance to attend top graduate programmes or employment.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    If contact hours are what determined course fees, we will be screwed when it comes to trying to recruit nurses.
    I meant university performance determined course fees or a range of fees. Isn’t it crazy that a top and globally-renowned university charges the same as a low performing one?

    I am not knowledgeable on nursing programmes, but i assume the current contact hours are sufficient.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I agree.

    Although it has been mentioned before, i think there needs to be a radical re-think of tertiary education in this country.

    If a student pays £9,000 for his non-STEM degree with 4 contact hours a week, while another pays the same for her STEM course with 25-30 contact hours, then there may be a problem. This is when the post-graduation prospects are completely different.

    Also, I think there needs to be a new tiered system for universities. With this new system, students would realistically know where they sit in the grand scheme and what their prospects may be like. Then universities can charge fees according to their tier. Universities would move up and down the tiers, as annual independent performance reviews are done.
    That tiered system already exists. The TEF ratings are based on metrics that are adjusted for demographics/subjects of students to show the impact universities have. 1/3 of those metrics are based on employment data.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    That tiered system already exists. The TEF ratings are based on metrics that are adjusted for demographics/subjects of students to show the impact universities have. 1/3 of those metrics are based on employment data.
    It does not determine university fees. Many students at 18/19 probably don’t know anything about TEF, so a low performance may not influence their decision on where to study.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Yes, which? argues that average lecture hours for maths is 16.

    Contact hours help the student to learn the material from staff. For example, medicine has many hours because they need sufficient time to learn from the relevant persons.

    I think that more contact may lead to better understanding of the material which would lead to better performance. With better performance would lead to better prospects i.e. chance to attend top graduate programmes or employment.
    16, 15... Not 25, which is the more important point.

    And yet there's no correlation between contact hours and graduate prospects.

    Do you do any data analysis in your masters?

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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I meant university performance determined course fees or a range of fees. Isn’t it crazy that a top and globally-renowned university charges the same as a low performing one?

    I am not knowledgeable on nursing programmes, but i assume the current contact hours are sufficient.
    That isn’t what your posts banging on about contact hours suggest.

    But anyway, on your new point....

    That’s what the TEF ranking was going to do, although has been put on the back burner as the Conservatives don’t want to be seen to be increasing tuition fees.

    Based on university wide TEF, Anglia Ruskin would be able to charge more than LSE.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    16, 15... Not 25, which is the more important point.

    And yet there's no correlation between contact hours and graduate prospects.

    Do you do any data analysis in your masters?

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    The point was the difference in contact hours. Yes, there is no evidence to demonstrate a correlation.

    I don't do a masters but an engineering undergrad. So, yes.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    That isn’t what your posts banging on about contact hours suggest.

    But anyway, on your new point....

    That’s what the TEF ranking was going to do, although has been put on the back burner as the Conservatives don’t want to be seen to be increasing tuition fees.

    Based on university wide TEF, Anglia Ruskin would be able to charge more than LSE.
    What? You misinterpreted what i wrote and then claimed that was my point.

    The contact hours comment was just a point to differentiate STEM to non-STEM. The key point was a University performance based fee system.

    If TEF is the highest independent review of a university’s performance, then i think it can be used as a metric to charge the range of fees.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    What? You misinterpreted what i wrote and then claim that was my point.

    The contact hours comment was just a point to differentiate STEM to non-STEM. The key point was a University performance based fee system.

    If TEF is the highest independent review of a university’s performance, then i think it can be used as a metric to charge the range of fees.
    I didn’t misinterpret anything.

    If anything is used, it will be TEF. But universities have too many other pressures on them at the moment to suggest that the government are not going to implement to range of fees aligned to TEF rankings. As and when TEF becomes established and the turmoil in universities calms down, then the policy could be brought forward again. Will be interesting to see how the OfS will influence this.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    I didn’t misinterpret anything.

    If anything is used, it will be TEF. But universities have too many other pressures on them at the moment to suggest that the government are not going to implement to range of fees aligned to TEF rankings. As and when TEF becomes established and the turmoil in universities calms down, then the policy could be brought forward again. Will be interesting to see how the OfS will influence this.
    That is fair. We have to see what will happen in the future. At the moment, lecturers are worried about their pensions.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    It does not determine university fees. Many students at 18/19 probably don’t know anything about TEF, so a low performance may not influence their decision on where to study.
    It was supposed to until Theresa May called a snap election and got scared away from allowing fees to rise with inflation.

    It was also supposed to be used to determine which universities could sponsor visas for international students. Then LSE got a bronze and they got scared.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    That is fair. We have to see what will happen in the future. At the moment, lecturers are worried about their pensions.
    That’s the least of university problems at the moment
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    (Original post by PQ)
    It was supposed to until Theresa May called a snap election and got scared away from allowing fees to rise with inflation.

    It was also supposed to be used to determine which universities could sponsor visas for international students. Then LSE got a bronze and they got scared.
    Ok. I did not know this information.

    If and when the Government gets a backbone to introduce TEF as a metric for tuition fees, I think this may significantly help both students and the “good” institutions.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Ok. I did not know this information.

    If and when the Government gets a backbone to introduce TEF as a metric for tuition fees, I think this may significantly help both students and the “good” institutions.
    They’ve given up the idea completely and decided to do a year long review of university funding instead. They’re basically planning to do nothing until after brexit and the next election.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    They’ve given up the idea completely and decided to do a year long review of university funding instead. They’re basically planning to do nothing until after brexit and the next election.
    I think it should be a careful process to ensure proper results. I am afraid that Brexit may cause the Government to bin the idea altogether to avoid reducing the Treasury’s revenue.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    That’s the least of university problems at the moment
    Yes, pension is more important at the moment.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Yes, pension is more important at the moment.
    No, it really isn’t it.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I think it should be a careful process to ensure proper results. I am afraid that Brexit may cause the Government to bin the idea altogether to avoid reducing the Treasury’s revenue.
    How does changing fees reduce the Treasury's revenue? The student loan is independent of the Treasury, although the write-offs aren't.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Ok. I did not know this information.

    If and when the Government gets a backbone to introduce TEF as a metric for tuition fees, I think this may significantly help both students and the “good” institutions.
    Your Big 8 is starting to look very shaky then with only 3 meeting the highest standard based on TEF
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Your Big 8 is starting to look very shaky then with only 3 meeting the highest standard based on TEF
    Indeed: Manchester, silver....

    Which they seem amazingly pleased to get: "This result acknowledges the tremendous progress our University has made in recent years to bring about significant improvements in the student experience particularly across teaching quality, assessment and feedback. "
    http://www.staffnet.manchester.ac.uk...play/?id=18515
 
 
 
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