Student sues Anglia Ruskin over "Mickey Mouse" degree Watch

Wired_1800
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#61
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
Uh, no. That isn't how it works.

It's valid to bear in mind when looking at the stats that they don't tell you about the prestige of the employment entered into by the graduates. After that, however:

* Almost no-one graduates from university ready to begin employment. I doubt whether even medics do that.

* Whilst a degree is a prerequisite for a lot of jobs, (a) a 2.i from anywhere will be sufficient to tick the box in most cases, but (b) a first from anywhere will not get you a job. It's about more than that.

* A lot of people aren't particularly looking for prestige or enormous wealth. To a lot, I'm going to say the majority, of students, getting into their desired field/industry is enough. The value of the statistics to students in general has to be judged with that in mind.

* No degree will guarantee you the above anyway, and that isn't the fault of the degree. That's just how employment works.
I did not write that a degree guarantees you a job. I think that a degree prepares you well and puts you on the journey to get a relevant job.

If we assume that a university degree does not have a strong bearing to support one landing a desired and relevant job, then university is useless and a waste of 3 years. Most will be better served seeking employment earlier on and learning the ropes during the 3 years.
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Doonesbury
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#62
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I did.

First of all, it is not for just that course but all the bus studies courses.

Two, nobody knows what the hell is a professional or managerial job. I could not find any explanation on the website on what the categories were and i did not want to assume falsely to create a wrong understanding.
You are the one creating a wrong understanding: shelf-stacking is not a professional or managerial job.

Here's the definitions:
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/support/definitions/destinations
which leads you to
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/support/docum...tional/soc2010
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I did not write that a degree guarantees you a job. I think that a degree prepares you well and puts you on the journey to get a relevant job.

If we assume that a university degree does not have a strong bearing to support one landing a desired and relevant job, then university is useless and a waste of 3 years. Most will be better served seeking employment earlier on and learning the ropes during the 3 years.
And what do you have to suggest that the ARU degree didn't do that in this case?

Tbh even if we had full statistics on exactly what the typical grad was doing, it wouldn't mean all that much. To a great extent such statistics are determined by the talent pool taking the degree on the first place. That tells you more about what applicants think than what employers think.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Tiger Rag)
I don't get her issue. Surely, you as a student, should do your research before applying? And how is it the university's problem if your degree doesn't get you anywhere?
So essentially you want the relationship between student and univeristy to be that of a consumer and a product.

Neoliberalism is truly hegemonic.
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Doonesbury
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Well, oddly, it is ARU making that argument implicitly. Which I think is incredibly odd for them to make as it can only lead to a Pyrrhic victory. Yes but everyone knows you need an 80% from ARU to get into IB.

My first point was that the uni blagged about the quality of the course. That is on them. Currently on their site they say "ARU is one of the top universities for quality of teaching. Teaching Excellence Framework silver award 2017." Now that's a straight misrep.
Why? They do have a TEF Silver.

My second point is that this person's lack of career success does not directly stem from this lie or the uni, but her attitude to her work and her lack of proper effort to enter her desired industry.
yup.
Third point, slightly linked, is that she would have more punch with apps if she had a higher first and some awards in addition to other essential characteristics such as a positive attitude to work (see my second point).
I reckon wired thought you meant an ARU first wasn't "high" quality compared to other uni's firsts, whereas I presume you simply meant the mark was high (>80%).
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
Why? They do have a TEF Silver.
Well, there are 137 "unis" listed in the TEF results. 45 got gold, 67 got silver and 25 got bronze. To say you're one of the best for teaching implies the group is quite small, not that it comprises 112 of 137 unis.
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Doonesbury
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Well, there are 137 "unis" listed in the TEF results. 45 got gold, 67 got silver and 25 got bronze. To say you're one of the best for teaching implies the group is quite small, not that it comprises 112 of 137 unis.
Hmm... perhaps. But at least they aren't LSE
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
Hmm... perhaps. But at least they aren't LSE
I know. ARU will truly be screwed once their teaching becomes LSE-tier; the golden years will be over.

I hate the amount of spin and deception that goes into unis' promos. You get more honesty from Burger King ads.
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Well, there are 137 "unis" listed in the TEF results. 45 got gold, 67 got silver and 25 got bronze. To say you're one of the best for teaching implies the group is quite small, not that it comprises 112 of 137 unis.
It's just puff. 'One of the top universities' is completely meaningless.
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Fullofsurprises
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#70
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
It's just puff. 'One of the top universities' is completely meaningless.
It's one of the top reasons for not reading university brochures.
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It's one of the top reasons for not reading university brochures.
:laugh:

Very nice.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
It's just puff. 'One of the top universities' is completely meaningless.
The fact it is tied to teaching and a particular teaching award gives it a degree of specificity.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
So essentially you want the relationship between student and univeristy to be that of a consumer and a product.

Neoliberalism is truly hegemonic.
Setting aside the ideal, it's already clear that the assumed relationship on every level now is consumer/product, which is why things like marking, relation to tutors and grades all feel so phony now - the idea that academics and teachers are above students in the pecking order does not reflect the reality of their market position. Hence law suits are going to be a regular part of university reality.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
You are the one creating a wrong understanding: shelf-stacking is not a professional or managerial job.

Here's the definitions:
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/support/definitions/destinations
which leads you to
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/support/docum...tional/soc2010
Alright, that is fair
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
And what do you have to suggest that the ARU degree didn't do that in this case?

Tbh even if we had full statistics on exactly what the typical grad was doing, it wouldn't mean all that much. To a great extent such statistics are determined by the talent pool taking the degree on the first place. That tells you more about what applicants think than what employers think.
I do not think any of us debating this topic has strong supporting evidence. We are debating based on the news article and generally available data.
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I do not think any of us debating this topic has strong supporting evidence. We are debating based on the news article and generally available data.
I think mostly what's happening is you're making a criticism and the rest of us are questioning your basis for it.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Well, oddly, it is ARU making that argument implicitly. Which I think is incredibly odd for them to make as it can only lead to a Pyrrhic victory. Yes but everyone knows you need an 80% from ARU to get into IB.

My first point was that the uni blagged about the quality of the course. That is on them. Currently on their site they say "ARU is one of the top universities for quality of teaching. Teaching Excellence Framework silver award 2017." Now that's a straight misrep. My second point is that this person's lack of career success does not directly stem from this lie or the uni, but her attitude to her work and her lack of proper effort to enter her desired industry. Third point, slightly linked, is that she would have more punch with apps if she had a higher first and some awards in addition to other essential characteristics such as a positive attitude to work (see my second point).
Yes but everyone knows you need an 80% from ARU to get into IB.

Is there anywhere that the above has been stated? Are potential students who dream of progressing to IB aware that they would need 80%?

I agree that the university blagging about the course is on them, but i think they should be called out or punished for false marketing. If it is in other industries, falsely marketed products/services will receive a serious punishment from the regulators.

In addition, every uni seems to be a top uni at something, which i agree with you.

To your second point, i dont think we fully know the girls full story. Yes, she probably should have attempted to seek relevant employment during uni like internships. However, we dont know whether she tried and the clout of her uni was just not good enough.

To your third point, you are still speculating. A fully padded CV probably would not have not been enough. The issue is that this is where she is now and her degree does not seem to be worth the paper it is written on, hence she wants her money back.
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Notoriety
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#78
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Yes but everyone knows you need an 80% from ARU to get into IB.

Is there anywhere that the above has been stated? Are potential students who dream of progressing to IB aware that they would need 80%?
I said this was their implicit argument.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
I think mostly what's happening is you're making a criticism and the rest of us are questioning your basis for it.
Nobody here fully knows the inside story. We are speculating.

The person suing the university clearly does not think that she got value for money.
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lizolove
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Trolololololololololololol

Just like the Oxford Grad who tried to sue Oxford University 16+ years on after 'only' getting a job at Clifford Chance or some magic circle firm.

Hope she's being represented pro-bono or she has a big stack of money to burn, because it's just going to go nowhere and cost her a lot of money.

I wonder what her argument would be
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