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    (Original post by Notoriety)
    Yes, the decision is poorly written. Apparently the university responded to her initial request from 30 Aug 2016 on 7 Oct 2017, says a decision dated 26 June 2017.

    I don't agree the ARU rep's statement is necessarily inaccurate.

    The complaint was issued on 24 Feb 2017 (para 13) and this complaint is the basis of the IOC's decision. It was about how the request was handled and she wanted the ICO to "encourage" to respond fully. There is no specific mention of time limit and it only appears under "Other matters" which the ICO "noted" (no mention of claimant's bringing it to their attention). Para 6 wasn't a complaint, and it wasn't the basis of this decision. In effect, it does not necessarily follow that that ICO accepted some of her complaint.
    I am afraid I disagree. The statement issued by the University is not an accurate summary of the Commissioner's findings. Moreover, the description of what happened before the Independent Adjudicator is a very odd one, hence my request as to whether the Adjudicator upheld any part of her complaint.
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    Should have done your research before attending an ex-poly for a business degree........

    This would get laughed out of a court room. Its like a fat person suing McDonalds.
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    Considering that there are far too many graduates out there, I dare say more than just a few have wasted their time. The problem is, without a grad job, you more often that not don't even get to compete for those jobs in the first place. It's a necessary but far from sufficient prerequisite. The government must change that.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Considering that there are far too many graduates out there, I dare say more than just a few have wasted their time. The problem is, without a grad job, you more often that not don't even get to compete for those jobs in the first place. It's a necessary but far from sufficient prerequisite. The government must change that.
    Alternatively, just study something like nursing or software development and you can get a decently paid job without competing for a graduate scheme?
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I am afraid I disagree. The statement issued by the University is not an accurate summary of the Commissioner's findings.
    Well, whether or not you agree, I think it's clear "FOIA 10" did not necessarily form part of the complaint. In fact, it is implied that 10 was not part of the complaint because it comes under the "Other matters" heading. I couldn't find ICO decision notice guidelines, but in other cases "Other matters" are indicated to not form part of the complaint and are not part of the legally binding decision.

    ICO considers the FOIA 1 complaint "partly upheld" (on their website). I could agree with you, that on this basis, the complaint was not entirely rejected. But not simply because of the paras 82-3 findings.

    Although, I don't agree that FOIA 1 complaint was "partly upheld" (from what I've read). The legal question is whether the public authority has the info, not whether they should have the info; the Commissioner found on the balance of probabilities ARU did not have the relevant requested info and so is not under an obligation to disclose the relevant requested info, but went some way to suggest ARU should have retained the info. The Commissioner even points out this distinction.

    Moreover, the description of what happened before the Independent Adjudicator is a very odd one, hence my request as to whether the Adjudicator upheld any part of her complaint.
    Weird phrasing, no doubt. But is that because they're hiding something or because the person who wrote it doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't realise what the wording implies?
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    (Original post by rickyrossman)
    This would get laughed out of a court room. Its like a fat person suing McDonalds.
    Or chain smokers suing cigarette companies. Oh wait.
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    I think that if this wins will just lead to people blaming other people for their failures when it is up to them to achieve what they want.
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    (Original post by Jman10101)
    I think that if this wins will just lead to people blaming other people for their failures when it is up to them to achieve what they want.
    Universities shouldn't be free to make false claims about the benefits or outcomes of their courses though.
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    The timing on cases like these always seems very suspect - it would be one thing if she'd done it during or immediately after completing her course, but when it's some years after, it seems more as if she's just looking for something else to blame.
    You can't tell the knock on effect of a poor degree for employability until you've worked for a few years
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    Education is what you 'do'. Not what you 'get'.

    This is a really bad precedence to set, do you your research, make a decision, work your socks off, be accountable. If you don't think it's right for you transfer. This just fuels a blame-culture
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    (Original post by She-Ra)
    Education is what you 'do'. Not what you 'get'.

    This is a really bad precedence to set, do you your research, make a decision, work your socks off, be accountable. If you don't think it's right for you transfer. This just fuels a blame-culture
    That is fair, but how will a person know whether they were royally messed up until they get to the point of applying for jobs or whatnot?

    I agree with personal accountability but the university should be held accountable as well. It seems like when the student goes on to do great things, the University gets praised for its influence; but when the student is unemployed even with a First Class degree, the student gets blamed for not preparing well enough.

    Something has to give, we either praise both parties or blame both parties. Universities need to be more honest about their abilities. I mean how can a university state that they are a “top global university” and not even be in the Top 100, with poor student prospects?
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    with poor student prospects?
    Where are you getting that from for Business courses?
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Where are you getting that from for Business courses?
    It was a general comment and not specific to ARU.
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    I acknowledge that some Universities don't live up to the hype, for lack of better words, but I think this is a bit ridiculous. It also has a bit of an air of self-entitlement. I don't believe you can get a degree from a University, no matter how exclusive or critically acclaimed it is, and expect to have a direct line into work because of it. I believe it's a lot to do with external factors, a student's attitude, the effort they put into studying for their degree, and not only that, but gaining relevant work experience and training. A degree isn't exactly a gateway into a job, it just helps to prop open the door.
    In saying this, however, I'm not at all a business student, but rather an arts student, so if I'm wrong in regards to how much degrees effect work in this sector as opposed to work ethic and attitude, feel free to correct me.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)

    Something has to give, we either praise both parties or blame both parties. Universities need to be more honest about their abilities. I mean how can a university state that they are a “top global university” and not even be in the Top 100, with poor student prospects?
    I completely agree - there is a big issue with the claims some universities make. This is a good example of when it goes wrong https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ch-top-1-claim
    Students need to realise though that employers don't really care all that much about the university, they care about initiative, skills, competency and fit. They want to map your skills to their vacancy so the job gets done.

    I don't know much about the student's personal circumstances. What I do know is that a 1st isn't enough. Students really need to uplevel and increase their skills across the board through student activities/volunteering/ leading/ internships etc. It's what you do at university that gives you extra brownie points when it comes to applying for jobs.

    I'm sharing that as someone who was asked to apply for a job at their uni, then didn't get it because my admin skills weren't on par with someone external.... if a university isn't giving their own grad a job something is pretty wrong. However, in the wider world I did fine and got an office management job (oh the irony) and from their had a pretty successful career in HR.

    Unfortunately, studying at university and graduating isn't the key to getting a job anymore, that alone won't get you a foot through the door... or perhaps even an interview. Unless you're doing something vocational like medicine/vet met/ nursing etc. Ultimately, upskilling and taking advantage of all the opportunities will make your CV stand out.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    You can't tell the knock on effect of a poor degree for employability until you've worked for a few years
    If the quality of teaching is poor enough to have an inherent affect on your employability, or the sole reason for your lack thereof, then that should be apparent during the course, not just a few years after. If it's a partial factor then perhaps, but then, surely the other components are what make the difference in that situation anyway?
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    If the quality of teaching is poor enough to have an inherent affect on your employability, or the sole reason for your lack thereof, then that should be apparent during the course, not just a few years after. If it's a partial factor then perhaps, but then, surely the other components are what make the difference in that situation anyway?
    I learned a new coding system at uni - which by all accounts now has become defunct. That didn't improve employability
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    If the quality of teaching is poor enough to have an inherent affect on your employability, or the sole reason for your lack thereof, then that should be apparent during the course, not just a few years after. If it's a partial factor then perhaps, but then, surely the other components are what make the difference in that situation anyway?
    Yeah, and what you've described in employment in spite of, not because of your degree
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    I learned a new coding system at uni - which by all accounts now has become defunct. That didn't improve employability
    Actually, it does - assuming you're talking about a coding system in computing terms, the fact it's defunct is irrelevant because you still learnt the transferable skills.

    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Yeah, and what you've described in employment in spite of, not because of your degree
    It would be both; assuming you're looking for graduate level employment, it would still be in part because of your degree. I'm largely outlining that situation for the former part of the statement, however; if the degree is poor enough to be the sole reason for your lack of employment, then that should be apparent whilst you are there.
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    (Original post by She-Ra)
    I completely agree - there is a big issue with the claims some universities make. This is a good example of when it goes wrong https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ch-top-1-claim
    Students need to realise though that employers don't really care all that much about the university, they care about initiative, skills, competency and fit. They want to map your skills to their vacancy so the job gets done.

    I don't know much about the student's personal circumstances. What I do know is that a 1st isn't enough. Students really need to uplevel and increase their skills across the board through student activities/volunteering/ leading/ internships etc. It's what you do at university that gives you extra brownie points when it comes to applying for jobs.

    I'm sharing that as someone who was asked to apply for a job at their uni, then didn't get it because my admin skills weren't on par with someone external.... if a university isn't giving their own grad a job something is pretty wrong. However, in the wider world I did fine and got an office management job (oh the irony) and from their had a pretty successful career in HR.

    Unfortunately, studying at university and graduating isn't the key to getting a job anymore, that alone won't get you a foot through the door... or perhaps even an interview. Unless you're doing something vocational like medicine/vet met/ nursing etc. Ultimately, upskilling and taking advantage of all the opportunities will make your CV stand out.
    I agree. I think more students need to become aware of this fact. Many then some of them may decide to do something else than go to university.

    Your story about the uni not selecting you is a sad one. I mean they clearly insinuated that you were not good enough, even though you learned from them.

    I hope these stories bring about real change, so things can truly progress. University is now a business and students must choose the right business to invest their resources.
 
 
 
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