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Need help with OASC feedback
I don't think there is any rule against posting OASC feedback on a public forum, but if there is can someone PM me and I will get this thread deleted:
I would like some advice as to how I could increase my chances of passing OASC when I return. Today I got my letter from OASC after initially being in the sift.
The letter is apparently unusual, and here is why...
Basically they have asked me back in June (normal wait being 12 months) to repeat the exercise stage of part A. I will not have to repeat aptitude tests or interview.
Apparently I was "above average" at interview but my performance on the exercise stage varied from "over-bearing" to "nervous under-confidence".
They have told me that my "panicky, flustered and unsettling behaviour was due to a desire to do well" and "I have much to offer and am a likeable individual".
What do OASC look for on the exercise stage? There is clearly a fine balance between being too assertive and too timid. What is the best approach?
I would like some advice as to how I could increase my chances of passing OASC when I return. Today I got my letter from OASC after initially being in the sift.
The letter is apparently unusual, and here is why...
Basically they have asked me back in June (normal wait being 12 months) to repeat the exercise stage of part A. I will not have to repeat aptitude tests or interview.
Apparently I was "above average" at interview but my performance on the exercise stage varied from "over-bearing" to "nervous under-confidence".
They have told me that my "panicky, flustered and unsettling behaviour was due to a desire to do well" and "I have much to offer and am a likeable individual".
What do OASC look for on the exercise stage? There is clearly a fine balance between being too assertive and too timid. What is the best approach?
People will fall down on the exercise stage for not wanting to come across as a ******** towards the other group members, this tends to make people more cautious of what they are doing/less likely to say 'You do this ... you do that'.
You have to be 'firm' with the commands that you give. Give them directly to someone, don't be general about them and say 'could someone please do this'. Of course some can be slightly open, so along the lines of ... "3 can you move that plank from there to there, 1 help 3 if needed"
Of course, if you were to do just that you would end up falling out with the people in your group. So you also need to ask for feedback, "3, do you think you will be able to lift that plank?", given encouragement, "Nice work 2, definitely the muscles of the group"
And remember that at the end of the day, it isn't if you get the task done that counts, it is how you do it.
One of the Officers will probably stand there and tell you exactly how much time you have left ... every 5 seconds ... just to see if you start to panic and make uninformed decisions.
You have to be 'firm' with the commands that you give. Give them directly to someone, don't be general about them and say 'could someone please do this'. Of course some can be slightly open, so along the lines of ... "3 can you move that plank from there to there, 1 help 3 if needed"
Of course, if you were to do just that you would end up falling out with the people in your group. So you also need to ask for feedback, "3, do you think you will be able to lift that plank?", given encouragement, "Nice work 2, definitely the muscles of the group"
And remember that at the end of the day, it isn't if you get the task done that counts, it is how you do it.
One of the Officers will probably stand there and tell you exactly how much time you have left ... every 5 seconds ... just to see if you start to panic and make uninformed decisions.
Without us actually being there, it is of course very difficult to advise. However, in the spirit of the messageboard, I'll have a stab.
Perhaps the real you lacks a degree of self-confidence. You are aware of this, and conscious of the board observer's scrutiny, you had a tendency towards sporadic bouts of 'look at me, i'm in charge, no problems here' type behaviour before lapsing back into the quiet type. The contrast between the two was such that it was very apparent and worthy of note.
My suggestion. They've already said "I (you) have much to offer and am a likeable individual". So just be yourself, forget the observers, don't try too hard.
Perhaps the real you lacks a degree of self-confidence. You are aware of this, and conscious of the board observer's scrutiny, you had a tendency towards sporadic bouts of 'look at me, i'm in charge, no problems here' type behaviour before lapsing back into the quiet type. The contrast between the two was such that it was very apparent and worthy of note.
My suggestion. They've already said "I (you) have much to offer and am a likeable individual". So just be yourself, forget the observers, don't try too hard.
What about the group dicussion and planning exercise?
I was the only person to come up with a solution in the latter and we spent most of the time discussing my idea. With hindsight I think that this may have appeared over-bearing as I was simply dictating my notes to the group so that they could recite the plan when asked.
I telephoned OASC and spoke to one of the boarding Officers who told me that he felt I was trying too hard because I wanted to please. How can I calm this natural instinct?
I was the only person to come up with a solution in the latter and we spent most of the time discussing my idea. With hindsight I think that this may have appeared over-bearing as I was simply dictating my notes to the group so that they could recite the plan when asked.
I telephoned OASC and spoke to one of the boarding Officers who told me that he felt I was trying too hard because I wanted to please. How can I calm this natural instinct?
Umm, I'm no expert basically because I've not done OASC yet, and I'm not good at psychology at school :P
My advise would be not to try too hard... Not to think "Oh, damn, should I be making an order here?"... don't push it. Things to say will come to you...
I remember seeing a war movie (Brothers in Arms) with some mates a couple of weeks ago, and we started talking about how hard it seemed to order people what to do in critical situations. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't that hard; all you had to do is what you thought most conveniant... you didn't need any speciall training or skills to be able to decide what to do.
I don't know if you get my point. Anyway, the thing is that it's not a problem with your leadership skills, it's a nerv problem.
My advise would be not to try too hard... Not to think "Oh, damn, should I be making an order here?"... don't push it. Things to say will come to you...
I remember seeing a war movie (Brothers in Arms) with some mates a couple of weeks ago, and we started talking about how hard it seemed to order people what to do in critical situations. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't that hard; all you had to do is what you thought most conveniant... you didn't need any speciall training or skills to be able to decide what to do.
I don't know if you get my point. Anyway, the thing is that it's not a problem with your leadership skills, it's a nerv problem.
Mark,
I had my debrief with my local AFCO yesterday and learn't an awful lot. The leadership exercise feedback I got was similar to yours in some ways. In the leaderless I stood out against the rest but on my leadership exercise they commented I was under-confident. Speak to your local AFCO and arrange a quick brief/debrief about your performance and how to improve it. The 2 posts above mention some valid points but there is a lot more to your performance than ordering people and trying to be nice. If for instance 2 people are discussing the best way forward with two different ideas to your own, you have to take command, and after quickly analysing the situation (who's is best) you may realise one of their solution is better than your own. You then have to take their idea and make it your own. Stop them bickering and listen to what they have to say if your already struggling to come up with a solution.
"3 do you think you will be able to lift that plank" to me that sounds patronising. Of course the reply will be yes or no leader, however you should be able to use your own judgement with confidence whether that person has the physical ability to lift and place the plank. If your asking them if they can lift it your merely wasting valuable time on a timed exercise. You then have to ask them to lift/move that plank and tell them where to place it etc. In effect something that could take 5 seconds to bark "E3 and E4 move the tied plank from the blue rail, and bridge the gap from bridge to the box" could end up taking you a lot longer. "E3 do you think you can lift the plank", "reply yes leader". E4 could you help him lift it please. " yes leader" can you both place it between the bridge and the box "yes leader".
It may sound well harsh but remember your not there to make friends your there to proove to the board your potential to lead.
Similar goes for the planning exercise. Well done on coming up with a solution ( I didn't fully get there) but what then do you do? Double check your plan against others? come up with an alternative?
Passer/WWN - sorry if I've sounded condescending
I had my debrief with my local AFCO yesterday and learn't an awful lot. The leadership exercise feedback I got was similar to yours in some ways. In the leaderless I stood out against the rest but on my leadership exercise they commented I was under-confident. Speak to your local AFCO and arrange a quick brief/debrief about your performance and how to improve it. The 2 posts above mention some valid points but there is a lot more to your performance than ordering people and trying to be nice. If for instance 2 people are discussing the best way forward with two different ideas to your own, you have to take command, and after quickly analysing the situation (who's is best) you may realise one of their solution is better than your own. You then have to take their idea and make it your own. Stop them bickering and listen to what they have to say if your already struggling to come up with a solution.
"3 do you think you will be able to lift that plank" to me that sounds patronising. Of course the reply will be yes or no leader, however you should be able to use your own judgement with confidence whether that person has the physical ability to lift and place the plank. If your asking them if they can lift it your merely wasting valuable time on a timed exercise. You then have to ask them to lift/move that plank and tell them where to place it etc. In effect something that could take 5 seconds to bark "E3 and E4 move the tied plank from the blue rail, and bridge the gap from bridge to the box" could end up taking you a lot longer. "E3 do you think you can lift the plank", "reply yes leader". E4 could you help him lift it please. " yes leader" can you both place it between the bridge and the box "yes leader".
It may sound well harsh but remember your not there to make friends your there to proove to the board your potential to lead.
Similar goes for the planning exercise. Well done on coming up with a solution ( I didn't fully get there) but what then do you do? Double check your plan against others? come up with an alternative?
Passer/WWN - sorry if I've sounded condescending
criddle
"3 do you think you will be able to lift that plank" to me that sounds patronising. Of course the reply will be yes or no leader, however you should be able to use your own judgement with confidence whether that person has the physical ability to lift and place the plank. If your asking them if they can lift it your merely wasting valuable time on a timed exercise. You then have to ask them to lift/move that plank and tell them where to place it etc. In effect something that could take 5 seconds to bark "E3 and E4 move the tied plank from the blue rail, and bridge the gap from bridge to the box" could end up taking you a lot longer. "E3 do you think you can lift the plank", "reply yes leader". E4 could you help him lift it please. " yes leader" can you both place it between the bridge and the box "yes leader".
To the person commanding it may sound patronising but to the person being asked it means that the Leader is taking into consideration their opinions, rather than just being another person to stand on.
At the end of the day, the fact that it is a 'timed exercise' should be almost irrelevant. You should be working to the best of your ability even if there wasn't a clock ticking down.
If you think about it, spending 5 extra seconds asking someone if they need help lifting something/asking them if they fully understand the plan is a much better solution than getting half way through the job, them dropping the plank/doing something incorrectly because they didn't understand. If that happens it just becomes an unnecessary delay, something easily avoidable.
Leadership is not about sticking your chest out and going "I'm in command, do as I say" ... that is what the stereotypical Officer is (as seen by the ranks). If you interact well with your group, give them encouragement then they will work harder for you.
The exact same goes for when you are actually in the service. If you turn around and say to a Sergeant "You team is going to do this..." they will probably do the job, but if you encourage them, become a visible presence/aid to them they will probably do the job in half the time.
I wouldn't take much notice of words like panicky, flustered, overbearing etc They are just outward appearances. The problem seems to be much more fundamental - you haven't been taught how to lead - which is no great problem, very, very few people can do it without being taught.
The thing with learning to lead is that you can do a lot of it from observation, so you don't need to start arranging expeditions to the highlands to get practice. If you have access to any cadet organisations, try and observe leadership exercises with whoever is instructing and ask yourself questions, what should the leader be doing now? what should they not be doing? how have they given out tasks in the team? what are their priorities? are they the right priorities? is everyone included? is the leader thinking of individual skills? has the leader considered the special limitations/dangers of this task? is the leader encouraging? is it obvious who the leader is? has the leader got too involved in the task detail? etc etc
Also, if you are in a work or sporting environment, look at leaders, critique them, see what works well and what doesn't work. Remember, at least at OASC you have a team of reasonably bright individuals who are usually doing their best.
You are right, it is an unusual letter to get from OASC and you should take heart from the fact that they have bothered to treat you differently, they obviously did see something they valued in your interview and aptitude tests. That means that you are the right sort of person, so again, don't worry about the descriptive phrases, and concentrate on learning the techniques of how to lead a team.
The thing with learning to lead is that you can do a lot of it from observation, so you don't need to start arranging expeditions to the highlands to get practice. If you have access to any cadet organisations, try and observe leadership exercises with whoever is instructing and ask yourself questions, what should the leader be doing now? what should they not be doing? how have they given out tasks in the team? what are their priorities? are they the right priorities? is everyone included? is the leader thinking of individual skills? has the leader considered the special limitations/dangers of this task? is the leader encouraging? is it obvious who the leader is? has the leader got too involved in the task detail? etc etc
Also, if you are in a work or sporting environment, look at leaders, critique them, see what works well and what doesn't work. Remember, at least at OASC you have a team of reasonably bright individuals who are usually doing their best.
You are right, it is an unusual letter to get from OASC and you should take heart from the fact that they have bothered to treat you differently, they obviously did see something they valued in your interview and aptitude tests. That means that you are the right sort of person, so again, don't worry about the descriptive phrases, and concentrate on learning the techniques of how to lead a team.
PasserBy9
Leadership is not about sticking your chest out and going "I'm in command, do as I say" ...
Leadership is not about sticking your chest out and going "I'm in command, do as I say" ...
Only one person in my syndicate behaved like that ... and he was the only one of the five of us who didn't get an offer.
I can't add much to the excellent advice on here already, but it might be worth working on general confidence, not just confidence in leadership situations. For example, do you ever do any public speaking? That's a good way to build confidence and learn how to put points across, even if it isn't teamwork / leadership based.
PasserBy9
Leadership is not about sticking your chest out and going "I'm in command, do as I say" ... that is what the stereotypical Officer is (as seen by the ranks). If you interact well with your group, give them encouragement then they will work harder for you.
The exact same goes for when you are actually in the service. If you turn around and say to a Sergeant "You team is going to do this..." they will probably do the job, but if you encourage them, become a visible presence/aid to them they will probably do the job in half the time.
The exact same goes for when you are actually in the service. If you turn around and say to a Sergeant "You team is going to do this..." they will probably do the job, but if you encourage them, become a visible presence/aid to them they will probably do the job in half the time.
Quite true; leadership isn't just about giving out orders, it has much more to it; taking care of the men, analizing situations, etc etc. But when it comes to a 'timed' situation in real life, you can't spend time on asking friendly questions such as "Will you be ok if you pick that plank up by yourself?". Of course, in real life you would already know your men's physical capabilities, and wouldn't need to ask each time you tell them to do something. And also, giving out orders in a chest-beating manner doesn't help much and wouldn't look too good in the RAF Recruiting officer's eyes.
In my opinion, the orders should be quick and basic, but not bossy. It sounds complicated, or contraversal, but it's actually quite simple;
Instead of "3, use the plank as a bridge between 'A' and 'B'. 4, help him if he needs it"
try "3, try using that plank as a bridge between 'A' and 'B', see if you can lift it. if you can't, get 4 to give you a hand".
Yes, it takes up more time then barking out orders, but much less then asking questions when you should be judging and estimating. I also believe it's more efficient in the way that the lads will understand you better if you don't bark out a sentance in 5 seconds.
"E3 and E4 move the tied plank from the blue rail, and bridge the gap from bridge to the box" - would be too fast for a lad to take in, he'd have to think about what you had said.
"E3, try lifting that tied plank (point), the one that's on the blue rail. See if you can use it as a bridge between those two boxes. Get E4 to give you a hand if you struggle" - would be more efficient.
PasserBy9 has hit the nail on the head with regards going about the exercise.
I was lucky enough to recive a full on briefing on OASC prior to going from a boarding officer and that is exactly what they said to do.
Don't forget to praise your team and give plenty of encouragement!
I was lucky enough to recive a full on briefing on OASC prior to going from a boarding officer and that is exactly what they said to do.
Don't forget to praise your team and give plenty of encouragement!
I have my selection on 22nd March, this is useful advice. - I think what it comes down to is not worrying too much about what the syndicate group might think. if you make one or 2 direct orders, who cares? Give encouragement where necessary and allow others in the group to participate in their ideas. I would say something along the lines of "Feel free to make any suggestions along the way and we'll consider them as a group" don't use words like " can you move the plank to connect to the barrell here, is that ok ?" noo! make direct suggestions and say "nice work guys" right balance.
Andy
Andy
Glad I've noticed this thread as I was wondering how to go about the hanger exercises. I teach 9-11 year olds how to cycle on the road safely so I'm constantly praising them when they doing something right - I was wondering if the same approach would be suitable for OASC; by the sounds of it, it is.
Excellent thread regarding the exercise phase here. My feedback from OASC was, on the whole, positive. I had one focussed area for improvement and it was to be less polite and more forceful. This all comes under the heading influence. You need to be direct, and if you want someone to do something, then bl**dy well tell them to do it. It actually says "MCLOVIN's polite and measured mannered approach sometimes reduced the impact of his instructions".
Don't get me wrong, it's all about striking a balance but I think they like to see a bit of vigour in your instructions/communication throughout the whole exercise phase.
Don't get me wrong, it's all about striking a balance but I think they like to see a bit of vigour in your instructions/communication throughout the whole exercise phase.
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