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Chances of getting an interview
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Ian-in-northamp, sorry this is several pages too late. It was about your daughter and interview training. I have nothing against those who offer the training, nor those who purchase it. But (in my opinion) it won't get your daughter into Oxbridge, and a lack of it won't be the reason for a rejection. Interview training can only improve the way you deliver an answer. My Cambridge interviewers (for Law) were only interested in the content of my answers. I believe success at interview depends on your ability to respond to new ideas and problems. Hundreds of pounds worth of interview training (or new clothes) will not help. One decent mock interview will give your daughter an idea of the atmosphere, and a smart appearance will give her some confidence. Beyond this there's nothing she can do but research her subject so she can show enthusiasm.
If you believe interview training is an important part of gaining acceptance to Oxbridge, why would you want your daughter to be accepted? It suggests that those who are studying at Oxbridge are confident, eloquent, and doing well financially (well, able to spend such money on training) - rather than intelligent, motivated, and very interested in their subject.
If you believe interview training is an important part of gaining acceptance to Oxbridge, why would you want your daughter to be accepted? It suggests that those who are studying at Oxbridge are confident, eloquent, and doing well financially (well, able to spend such money on training) - rather than intelligent, motivated, and very interested in their subject.
Can I call you Duckie? It's just that 'Thanks - The Duck' doesn't quite roll off the keyboard... Assuming that you're happy with that: Thanks Duckie. In fact, I'm pretty certain I agree with you. The thread got sidetracked by that specific issue and has ended up with the relative merits/demerits of communism, and I kinda got involved in arguing the philosophical point rather than the actual point. In fact, I think she will present herself very well, and I'm certainly nervous about how these kind of courses can induce a 'canned' response which is quite transparent - a point that an earlier poster made very well. So, just to put this one to bed: I have no intention of asking her if she wants to do interview training. Any idea how I can put together a decent mock interview? I'm already thinking of some nice questions, one of which has been inspired by this thread: "Is the law about right and wrong?" 
But now, back to Marx... 
But now, back to Marx... 
ian-in-northamp
Any idea how I can put together a decent mock interview? I'm already thinking of some nice questions, one of which has been inspired by this thread: "Is the law about right and wrong?" But now, back to Marx...
But now, back to Marx... My suggestion is not to do it yourself, but to find people who she sort of knows but not well, and get them to ask nasty questions. Preferably two people at a time.
However, don't get people who might get offended or who she's worried about saying the wrong thing to, or it'll be a waste of time.
musicboy
see my earlier point. Do you think that capiutalism is more natural and thus more viable. if you do then you are wrong because capitalism is based on normative values which were questioned by marx in das capital - is "free and fair exchange" actually free and fair?
MB
MB
I haven't bothered reading the entire thread. I keep my political debates to eight hour bus journeys to the SCottish Parliament and back.
I'm hardly a capitalist as you know MB
. Just slightly realistic when it come to left wing politics.
musicboy
Oh, come on. This is twaddl and you know it. Humans are naturally hunter gathers - does that mean we should still live like that? Humans naturally are tribal? should we live like that. Why do you assume that capitalism is a result of human nature. what you shoulad actually consider is that the greed is a result of the capitalist society which we live in rather than the society being a result of the greed. As for a drop in the standard of living I wuld like to see you explain how it can be worse when america dump millions of tonnes of grain into the pacific each year while people are starving because it would "reduce the profitability of American farmers' work"
MB
MB
No, it is you who are wrong in my view.
I do not belive that people will make the sacrifices demanded of them for communism to work. We want the best for ourselves and our families; not the man over the road.
For the point about the grain, you would need to talk to an economist who has an international knowledge but I would assume that by giving away the grain it would create an excess of supply and drive down the prices, and hence profitability. This would result in a drop the American workers' standard of living. Given that the Americans would want to protect themselves they would not wanr to do tht. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a fact. I would be interested in how many British people would like to see their living standards drop in order to enhance those of people in foreign lands. Given that they do not want to pay tax to help their own countrymen I would venture to suggest very few would be interested.
If capitalism is not the result of human nature, how did it develop in the first place? How is it maintained? Saying that we are perverted from out true nature is a cop out on the part of the communists when it comes to this point.
what a charming and well-informed man ian-in-northamp is.
Ian, Does the school she goes to, or do you know anyone, who have been to Oxbridge themselves? My school organised mock interviews and for Oxbridge applicants, one of the parents (who studied economics at Cam) to do the interview.
I would not recommend that it be anyone well-known to her. She will not know the tutors at Wadham, they will not know her, and one of the hurdles in an interview is to be able to respond well and almost warmly to people that you've never met before.
you may wish to give her some questions and that's a very good idea. One of the best ways of preparing is to think about, and structure answers to possible questions. They are very likely to challenge her points at interview - she should think about what sort of criticisms they might bring up and her response. It's a very good way of consolidating and re-evaluating your own convictions.
If she's put any cases/legal issues/books on her PS, then she should go through these in detail, get the gist, pick up on what she agrees/disagrees with, and be able to say why with clarity. Even if it never comes up, its worthwhile to go through it (just in case it does).
Formal interview training might help but i would imagine it tends to be too generic. It will offer ideas about what you should do, how you sit, how you present yourself etc. Oxford interviews (in my experience) are academic. In both of mine there was no focus on any extra-curricular activities, anything in my PS, anything about what I enjoyed in the subject. Therefore, despite the fact that you've said she interviews very well, she cannot rely on bringing herself across as a bright, interesting person. They are looking at her academic ability and academic potential first and foremost. A good interview technique is highly unlikely to balance out a weakness in this area. She would, imho, be better off doing a few mock law interviews and spending the time thinking about the subject she wishes to study for 3 years, rather than going to interview training.
I would not recommend that it be anyone well-known to her. She will not know the tutors at Wadham, they will not know her, and one of the hurdles in an interview is to be able to respond well and almost warmly to people that you've never met before.
you may wish to give her some questions and that's a very good idea. One of the best ways of preparing is to think about, and structure answers to possible questions. They are very likely to challenge her points at interview - she should think about what sort of criticisms they might bring up and her response. It's a very good way of consolidating and re-evaluating your own convictions.
If she's put any cases/legal issues/books on her PS, then she should go through these in detail, get the gist, pick up on what she agrees/disagrees with, and be able to say why with clarity. Even if it never comes up, its worthwhile to go through it (just in case it does).
Formal interview training might help but i would imagine it tends to be too generic. It will offer ideas about what you should do, how you sit, how you present yourself etc. Oxford interviews (in my experience) are academic. In both of mine there was no focus on any extra-curricular activities, anything in my PS, anything about what I enjoyed in the subject. Therefore, despite the fact that you've said she interviews very well, she cannot rely on bringing herself across as a bright, interesting person. They are looking at her academic ability and academic potential first and foremost. A good interview technique is highly unlikely to balance out a weakness in this area. She would, imho, be better off doing a few mock law interviews and spending the time thinking about the subject she wishes to study for 3 years, rather than going to interview training.
david_brent
what a charming and well-informed man ian-in-northamp is.
He is indeed a very nice man.
Sorry I haven't got back on this one yet - i've been very busy packing (i'm almost ready) and probably won't have time to formulate a decent reply until i've unpacked sometime tomorrow.
MB
MB
David (I’m a big fan of yours – but I can’t believe you can’t see through that weasel Gareth) and IC125: you’re very kind… 
IC125: your most recent post is spot on, I think. You reflect my views entirely. That said, I’m very much looking forward to MB’s next post – I’d hate for us to leave it here.
Jessie: thank you so much for your very thoughtful post. As it turns out, today has been a day of revelations… As well as I might think my daughter and I communicate, it seems it’s not as well as I’d hope. A conversation in the car revealed that a) she’d emailed the admissions tutor at Wadham about which A level subject to drop and had had a most helpful reply telling her to drop the subject in which she was likely to do least well as having three As was the most important thing, b) that her school will be organizing interview training for her, and c) that she’d obtained a sample LNAT paper. I guess I just don’t ask the right questions – and I don’t give her enough credit for taking care of things herself. I guess I’m just too in the loop of “she’s my little girl and I need to do everything for her”…
So things are looking somewhat promising in terms of at least being on top of the process (oh yes, and she needs me to provide my credit card details so she can register for the LNAT test
, and she wants me to look over her personal statement). Based on Jessie’s encouragement (my daughter’s name is Jess…) I’ve come up with a list of questions that I’m going to ask her to go away, think about, research, write down some thoughts – and then we’ll discuss them. I’m quite proud of them, so I’m going to share them with you:
1. To succeed in law, you need a passion for the subject. Describe your passion.
2. Law is about the difference between right and wrong. Do you agree or disagree?
3. What do you think makes bad law?
4. Solicitor, barrister, corporate counsel - which do you plan to become, and why?
5. What is the purpose of law?
6. What in your view is the most significant law enacted by parliament in the last five years?
7. Justice relies on the law - and the law is designed to deliver justice. Do you agree or disagree?
8. The United Kingdom is becoming as litigious a country as the United States. Is that a good or a bad thing?
9. "There's one law for the rich and another for the poor". Surely, that can't be true?
10. Law is just the codification of the principles enshrined in the Ten Commandments. Do you agree or disagree?
11. Creating a law is the best way of ensuring that people don't do what you don't want them to. Do you agree or disagree?
12. Why are lawyers so highly paid?
13. J Edgar Hoover said that "justice is incidental to law and order". What did he mean?
14. Law is invariably a political instrument - socialist will enact different laws to conservatives. Do you believe this?
15. Aristotle said that all men should be equal before the law. Was he right?
16. Aristotle said that "law is order and good law is good order". Describe the relationship between philosophy and law.
17. Why is the drafting of law so important?
18. Is there anyone you particularly admire in the field of law?
19. How do you think the legal profession is portrayed on television?
20. Mr. Bumble famously said in Oliver Twist that "the law is an ass". Describe a current issue where you believe this to be true.
Your feedback would be much appreciated, as I’m growing to very much value the opinions of the people on this board. What I’ll be looking for in her responses is balance, consideration of different points of view, the ability to put her argument logically and dispassionately and a willingness to defend her conclusions when challenged. At least it will make for some interesting evenings!
IC125: your most recent post is spot on, I think. You reflect my views entirely. That said, I’m very much looking forward to MB’s next post – I’d hate for us to leave it here. Jessie: thank you so much for your very thoughtful post. As it turns out, today has been a day of revelations… As well as I might think my daughter and I communicate, it seems it’s not as well as I’d hope. A conversation in the car revealed that a) she’d emailed the admissions tutor at Wadham about which A level subject to drop and had had a most helpful reply telling her to drop the subject in which she was likely to do least well as having three As was the most important thing, b) that her school will be organizing interview training for her, and c) that she’d obtained a sample LNAT paper. I guess I just don’t ask the right questions – and I don’t give her enough credit for taking care of things herself. I guess I’m just too in the loop of “she’s my little girl and I need to do everything for her”…
So things are looking somewhat promising in terms of at least being on top of the process (oh yes, and she needs me to provide my credit card details so she can register for the LNAT test
, and she wants me to look over her personal statement). Based on Jessie’s encouragement (my daughter’s name is Jess…) I’ve come up with a list of questions that I’m going to ask her to go away, think about, research, write down some thoughts – and then we’ll discuss them. I’m quite proud of them, so I’m going to share them with you:1. To succeed in law, you need a passion for the subject. Describe your passion.
2. Law is about the difference between right and wrong. Do you agree or disagree?
3. What do you think makes bad law?
4. Solicitor, barrister, corporate counsel - which do you plan to become, and why?
5. What is the purpose of law?
6. What in your view is the most significant law enacted by parliament in the last five years?
7. Justice relies on the law - and the law is designed to deliver justice. Do you agree or disagree?
8. The United Kingdom is becoming as litigious a country as the United States. Is that a good or a bad thing?
9. "There's one law for the rich and another for the poor". Surely, that can't be true?
10. Law is just the codification of the principles enshrined in the Ten Commandments. Do you agree or disagree?
11. Creating a law is the best way of ensuring that people don't do what you don't want them to. Do you agree or disagree?
12. Why are lawyers so highly paid?
13. J Edgar Hoover said that "justice is incidental to law and order". What did he mean?
14. Law is invariably a political instrument - socialist will enact different laws to conservatives. Do you believe this?
15. Aristotle said that all men should be equal before the law. Was he right?
16. Aristotle said that "law is order and good law is good order". Describe the relationship between philosophy and law.
17. Why is the drafting of law so important?
18. Is there anyone you particularly admire in the field of law?
19. How do you think the legal profession is portrayed on television?
20. Mr. Bumble famously said in Oliver Twist that "the law is an ass". Describe a current issue where you believe this to be true.
Your feedback would be much appreciated, as I’m growing to very much value the opinions of the people on this board. What I’ll be looking for in her responses is balance, consideration of different points of view, the ability to put her argument logically and dispassionately and a willingness to defend her conclusions when challenged. At least it will make for some interesting evenings!
The questions all seem good to start off the mock interview, but based on what I heard from law applicants when I was being interviewed, they apparently mostly got given specific cases and were asked to talk about them. It might be worth finding some famous cases (Roe vs Wade? My law knowledge is pretty shoddy, but that could be an easy-ish one) and just discussing them.
Some of them are very topical, which is good. The admissions tutors will like applicants who are on top of current affairs and interested in the world around them.
I agree with RxB, the questions are good as a starter but very general. if you and her could find some legal cases (Kramer vs Kramer? )...seriously though....perhaps something like Diane Blood and Diane Pretty? Were those the names? They're more medical ethical law but it might interest her...
more controversially, was the war on Iraq legal? there's some nitty-gritty about 1442 not being ratified so 1441 stands....
it might be interesting to look into that.
she should find about 3-5 (anymore and it'll get too confusing and too much to keep in mind) that she finds interesting. there's usually a law section in most tuesday papers (certainly times and guardian) that address recent legal cases/issues....
I agree with RxB, the questions are good as a starter but very general. if you and her could find some legal cases (Kramer vs Kramer?
)...seriously though....perhaps something like Diane Blood and Diane Pretty? Were those the names? They're more medical ethical law but it might interest her...more controversially, was the war on Iraq legal? there's some nitty-gritty about 1442 not being ratified so 1441 stands....
it might be interesting to look into that. she should find about 3-5 (anymore and it'll get too confusing and too much to keep in mind) that she finds interesting. there's usually a law section in most tuesday papers (certainly times and guardian) that address recent legal cases/issues....
RxB
(Roe vs Wade? My law knowledge is pretty shoddy, but that could be an easy-ish one) and just discussing them.
I'm not sure they'd ask about Roe vs Wade. Its too emotive a topic and someone with strong feelings about it might get upset in the interview.
I dunno if its any help to you but a question that was asked to lots of Law candidates a few years ago was (apparantly): Should judges be elected?
Thanks again all. Yeah, Roe (wasn’t her real name, I just found out…) vs. Wade might be a bit unlikely, not only because it’s emotive but also because it’s American. Aisling: judges are elected in the US, right? – it’s an interesting comparison. The Diane Blood case might be a good answer to the question asking about instances where the law is an ass… (or not, depending on your point of view) . Jessie: good thought re the Tuesday papers. So: where’s MB? Surely not still unpacking? Or has the depravity of student life already taken its toll?
. Jessie: good thought re the Tuesday papers. So: where’s MB? Surely not still unpacking? Or has the depravity of student life already taken its toll? 
ian-in-northamp
Thanks again all. Yeah, Roe (wasn’t her real name, I just found out…) vs. Wade might be a bit unlikely, not only because it’s emotive but also because it’s American.
I have contacted students who have been asked about abortion who have applied to Oxford whether it should be murder ot not and if it is murder can pregnant women smoke for example etc. I'm unsure on American examples but it is sometimes useful to contrast between what we have and another common law country. You will find in casebooks (I've noticed for criminal law - Clarkson & Keating) that they sometimes look at what other countries have, especially on the topic of reform.
ian-in-northamp
Aisling: judges are elected in the US, right? – it’s an interesting comparison.
To an extent yes.
ian-in-northamp
The Diane Blood case might be a good answer to the question asking about instances where the law is an ass… (or not, depending on your point of view)
Law has been an arse in plenty of situations. Sometimes when a defendent doesn't deserve to be labelled a murderer when he fails to successfully plea diminished responsibility for example. Here's a more recent 'arse' http://www.lawreports.co.uk/hlpcnovd0.5.htm
Thanks Ngaro - Ndgaari - Ndarogon... Oh, the hell with it. Thanks anyway - useful inputs!
ian-in-northamp
Thanks Ngaro - Ndgaari - Ndarogon... Oh, the hell with it. Thanks anyway - useful inputs!
LOL
I'm glad to see that you are a devoted father, and have enough time to discuss your daughter's chances at Oxford. But do you ever think that you may be imposing a bit too much on her life?
My parents had next-to-nothing to do with my application. Well, they proof-read my personal statement, but that's where it stopped. Is there an vicarious element to your interest in your daughter's application?
Maybe I am imposing how I would feel too much, but it would really really frustrate me to have my dad writing about my chances at Oxford on some forum. Its her life, and her responsibility. She has to take the interview, and deal with the consequences of her actions, and her choices (of A level, and whether to work or not)
As to her chances of getting in... I have unfortunatly in the last few days heard stories of people being rejected because they didn't have 3 respectable A levels. One guy i met was told he had an offer, as long as he picked up the more respectable AS level he had dropped.
Anyway, best of luck to her. Maybe you have to just let her live her own life....
My parents had next-to-nothing to do with my application. Well, they proof-read my personal statement, but that's where it stopped. Is there an vicarious element to your interest in your daughter's application?
Maybe I am imposing how I would feel too much, but it would really really frustrate me to have my dad writing about my chances at Oxford on some forum. Its her life, and her responsibility. She has to take the interview, and deal with the consequences of her actions, and her choices (of A level, and whether to work or not)
As to her chances of getting in... I have unfortunatly in the last few days heard stories of people being rejected because they didn't have 3 respectable A levels. One guy i met was told he had an offer, as long as he picked up the more respectable AS level he had dropped.
Anyway, best of luck to her. Maybe you have to just let her live her own life....
Fayzd: you couldn’t be more right. If/when you become a father/mother, you’ll probably go through exactly what I’m going through. Of course, I’d love her to go to one of the world’s best universities – what father wouldn’t want that for his daughter – but I don’t want her to feel she’s under pressure to go to any university at all. Neat call, by the way, on the vicarious thing. I’m going to deny it – who wouldn’t? – but I don’t think my interest has that element. Do I wish I could have gone to Oxford or Cambridge? Of course – who wouldn’t? On the other hand, I went to York, spent three years drinking more beer than I’ve drunk in the thirty years since, played football or trained almost every day – and came out of it with a First in English (back when a degree was worth something) [stands back…]. The three best years of my life, bar none, and I wouldn’t trade them for anything. If she’s going to apply to Oxford – which I’m convinced she’s doing because she wants to – then yes, I want her to make the best possible job of her application. But I’m not going to her each time I get a response from here to tell her “you should be doing this” or “everyone says you should be doing that”. I’m doing it – I think – because I want to be as well-informed as possible so that if she asks me “Dad, what do you think about…?” then I can give her a sensible answer. One of the things I’ve learned as a father is that there comes a point where a bullshit answer won’t work any more. General experience of the world, or fatuous theorising, stops cutting the mustard: you have to know what you’re talking about. So, to cut a long story short: your comments are perceptive and might well be applicable in a number of instances – but not, I hope, in this one. If anything, I’m a little scared of just how much I have left her to her own devices on this, and how much she does indeed lead her own life – but I know it’s the right approach. I just need to be there for her (Oh God – all those years of sitting in the same room as my daughter watching ‘Friends’ are catching up on me…). The people on this board have helped me do a better job of that. And thanks for your good wishes.
ian-in-northamp
Fayzd: you couldn’t be more right. If/when you become a father/mother, you’ll probably go through exactly what I’m going through. Of course, I’d love her to go to one of the world’s best universities – what father wouldn’t want that for his daughter – but I don’t want her to feel she’s under pressure to go to any university at all. Neat call, by the way, on the vicarious thing. I’m going to deny it – who wouldn’t? – but I don’t think my interest has that element. Do I wish I could have gone to Oxford or Cambridge? Of course – who wouldn’t? On the other hand, I went to York, spent three years drinking more beer than I’ve drunk in the thirty years since, played football or trained almost every day – and came out of it with a First in English (back when a degree was worth something) [stands back…]. The three best years of my life, bar none, and I wouldn’t trade them for anything. If she’s going to apply to Oxford – which I’m convinced she’s doing because she wants to – then yes, I want her to make the best possible job of her application. But I’m not going to her each time I get a response from here to tell her “you should be doing this” or “everyone says you should be doing that”. I’m doing it – I think – because I want to be as well-informed as possible so that if she asks me “Dad, what do you think about…?” then I can give her a sensible answer. One of the things I’ve learned as a father is that there comes a point where a bullshit answer won’t work any more. General experience of the world, or fatuous theorising, stops cutting the mustard: you have to know what you’re talking about. So, to cut a long story short: your comments are perceptive and might well be applicable in a number of instances – but not, I hope, in this one. If anything, I’m a little scared of just how much I have left her to her own devices on this, and how much she does indeed lead her own life – but I know it’s the right approach. I just need to be there for her (Oh God – all those years of sitting in the same room as my daughter watching ‘Friends’ are catching up on me…). The people on this board have helped me do a better job of that. And thanks for your good wishes.
you have a serious problem mate if you have to consult an internet forum
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