This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- CS @ Uni Of Manchester
- Trading Job without a STEM Degree?
- LSE vs UCL for Quant
- career path / alevel help to be a quantitative analyst!!!
- Joint Maths And Economics - Enough maths for quant work/masters?
- Anyone Studying Maths or staying at shrub hill
- finance jobs
- Quantitative analyst degree
- Citadel Trader here!
- Economics or STEM at Nottingham for Investment Banking
- Finance internships
- Best degree to study for finance
- Is this a bad idea?
- Does econ and management at Oxford involve enough maths?
- Becoming a Quant in the UK
- Chances of getting into accounting/finance in Uni
- I can't decide between a maths or maths and stats degree
- Which unis should i apply to for maths?
- Degree/ Uni choice advice
- Jobs with LSE Econ/Econ & Maths
Becoming a Trader/Quant
It seems to me that someone who wishes to persue a High Level financing career (in Trading or Quantitative Analysing) doesn't have a specific route to achieving that goal (in comparison to becoming a Doctor or Lawyer) but there surely must be a desired method of getting into the Industry. I've gathered that graduating from a "Top 5" University is a good security (such as Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial or LSE) but I'm quite confused as to how to go about it; in terms of what degree to take (obviously a Quantitative subject). So what's the desired subject to take for a Bachelors (initially)? I was thinking either Economics or Maths (is there a preference between the two?). I'm also interested in taking that onto a PHd, but what should one be looking at getting a Doctorate in?
I know Trading and Analysing aren't easy jobs and require a lot of knowledge, so in that respect I'm wanting to do a degree in something that would set you up perfectly for that kind of career, which makes me think Economics is preferred as it doesn't just teach you the pure maths that a maths degree would; but applies it to the knowledge of the Economy. (of course I could be completely wrong here)
So if you could give advice to a Trading enthusiast what advice would you give?
Thanks for reading
I know Trading and Analysing aren't easy jobs and require a lot of knowledge, so in that respect I'm wanting to do a degree in something that would set you up perfectly for that kind of career, which makes me think Economics is preferred as it doesn't just teach you the pure maths that a maths degree would; but applies it to the knowledge of the Economy. (of course I could be completely wrong here)
So if you could give advice to a Trading enthusiast what advice would you give?
Thanks for reading
Scroll to see replies
If you're seriously thinking of being a quant someday, then it has to be maths.
All the useful things from an undergraduate in either, you can learn pretty quickly if you're bright enough to be at a good uni on a good course. The benefit of still doing economics is that you tend to be surrounded by people who plan to do the same thing and that will hopefully encourage you to be even better.
All the useful things from an undergraduate in either, you can learn pretty quickly if you're bright enough to be at a good uni on a good course. The benefit of still doing economics is that you tend to be surrounded by people who plan to do the same thing and that will hopefully encourage you to be even better.
President_Ben
If you're seriously thinking of being a quant someday, then it has to be maths.
All the useful things from an undergraduate in either, you can learn pretty quickly if you're bright enough to be at a good uni on a good course. The benefit of still doing economics is that you tend to be surrounded by people who plan to do the same thing and that will hopefully encourage you to be even better.
All the useful things from an undergraduate in either, you can learn pretty quickly if you're bright enough to be at a good uni on a good course. The benefit of still doing economics is that you tend to be surrounded by people who plan to do the same thing and that will hopefully encourage you to be even better.
Thanks mate, but doing Maths with intention of becoming a Trader won't put you at any disposition from someone also wanting to become a Trader; but doing Economics.
lharvest
Thanks mate, but doing Maths with intention of becoming a Trader won't put you at any disposition from someone also wanting to become a Trader; but doing Economics.
It can, but it doesn't have to. Economics courses tend to be filled with people all wanting to do the same thing - and there is a benefit to that.
But so far as, does the content of the degree make a difference, it shouldn't. Anyone doing economics should be familiar or able to become familiar with any required maths and the limited amount of economics you need is stuff you get taught in 30 minutes at the pub...
Barny
you need to be able to solve PDE's. You don't learn how to do that with an economics degree.
Except, you do learn how to solve those
or some of them.But your general point still stands.
That said, if you know you have no desire to be a quant - then... as a trader, you won't be looking at partial differential equations much/ever. There's usually, well, someone a little more quant to worry about those...
LSE Economics will get you a trading job, so will going to any other of the top 5. Mainly maths would be the best in my opinion, as there are not many people with maths degrees and economics is becoming by far one of the most popular subjects taken.
Also, the main object should be internships.... whatever degree you do.
On the matter of wanting to do a PhD, it may help you get a job initially, but a bank hired a team pf crack mathematicians and stastistians to trade for them using indepth mathematics... they lost over 2 billion dollars.
Also, the main object should be internships.... whatever degree you do.
On the matter of wanting to do a PhD, it may help you get a job initially, but a bank hired a team pf crack mathematicians and stastistians to trade for them using indepth mathematics... they lost over 2 billion dollars.
Barny
If anything it'll be an advantage. The more quantitative the better as a general rule. You don't need to know much economics to be a quant, but you need to be able to solve PDE's. You don't learn how to do that with an economics degree.
What? Economics students can do that. I've covered it and I'm doing a BA...(2nd year)
RyanT
What? Economics students can do that. I've covered it and I'm doing a BA...(2nd year)
Missing. The. Point.
(...and first year on my BSc...)
I don't know what sort of Maths you need for a trader, perhaps President_Ben could be explicit for us, but I know for a quant an Economics degree will, on the whole, be woefully inadequate in preparing you for a quant career. When I mean PDE's I don't mean the kind you get in first year Economics degrees.
Barny
I don't know what sort of Maths you need for a trader, perhaps President_Ben could be explicit for us
Not much/none. Provided I can follow the maths behind a model, I'm fine. I'm much more worried about a model having systematic errors (type error missing variable etc.) than the detail of any stochastic calculus that might have been done along the way.
I do much more mental arithmetic than I had expected but even then, it has saved me very little being very marginally faster at it and that is because I'm currently not using a system to automatically hedge my deltas as my underlying instruments are sufficiently liquid, even if the volatility instruments are far from it.
President_Ben
Not much/none. Provided I can follow the maths behind a model, I'm fine. I'm much more worried about a model having systematic errors (type error missing variable etc.) than the detail of any stochastic calculus that might have been done along the way.
I do much more mental arithmetic than I had expected but even then, it has saved me very little being very marginally faster at it and that is because I'm currently not using a system to automatically hedge my deltas as my underlying instruments are sufficiently liquid, even if the volatility instruments are far from it.
I do much more mental arithmetic than I had expected but even then, it has saved me very little being very marginally faster at it and that is because I'm currently not using a system to automatically hedge my deltas as my underlying instruments are sufficiently liquid, even if the volatility instruments are far from it.
Ok obviously you can't use a calculator for embarassment reasons? How about using excel to do simple calculations? I such at mental arithmetic
Mos Def
Ok obviously you can't use a calculator for embarassment reasons? How about using excel to do simple calculations? I such at mental arithmetic
Too slow.
If you want to be a model-building, research-based quant working closely with a trading desk, then you essentially need a PhD in a very quantitative subject (mathematics, physics, computer science or finance). However, I would advise very strongly against doing a PhD with the specific aim of becoming a quant at the end of it. A PhD is a lot of work and you spend a lot of time (at least three years, probably more like four) focusing on one problem. You have to be doing it because you enjoy it or you'll go nuts.
My feeling is that the more mathematical your PhD is, the better. This is because it's easy to teach economics and finance to someone who knows mathematics, but not vice versa. The other skill that's really helpful is programming ability (C++ mainly) but it's not essential.
Alternatively you could do one of the jobs which fall into the quant realm but don't require a PhD - model validation, risk management etc. The role isn't research based so you can get into it from a masters.
To be a trader you still need to know your numbers, but you can get away with a less rigorous understanding in your degree, because if you're smart enough you can learn it on your own anyway. As PB said, the maths required isn't conceptually deep, but it is important to understand it very well.
My feeling is that the more mathematical your PhD is, the better. This is because it's easy to teach economics and finance to someone who knows mathematics, but not vice versa. The other skill that's really helpful is programming ability (C++ mainly) but it's not essential.
Alternatively you could do one of the jobs which fall into the quant realm but don't require a PhD - model validation, risk management etc. The role isn't research based so you can get into it from a masters.
To be a trader you still need to know your numbers, but you can get away with a less rigorous understanding in your degree, because if you're smart enough you can learn it on your own anyway. As PB said, the maths required isn't conceptually deep, but it is important to understand it very well.
On the matter of wanting to do a PhD, it may help you get a job initially, but a bank hired a team pf crack mathematicians and stastistians to trade for them using indepth mathematics... they lost over 2 billion dollars.
Yawn. Pointless comment.
As for mental arithmetic, just practice. The only reason you suck is because you don't do it very often.
Frater
On the matter of wanting to do a PhD, it may help you get a job initially, but a bank hired a team pf crack mathematicians and stastistians to trade for them using indepth mathematics... they lost over 2 billion dollars.
2. How is that an argument for not doing a PhD?
Lusus Naturae
Can I ask why?
1. Because that's who they hire.
2. Because the job is mathematically very intense (stochastic calculus, probability, PDEs, monte carlo etc) involves lots of programming (C++ and VBA mainly) and involves doing research (to a greater or lesser degree). A quantitative PhD will give you (some of) those skills. Not that you can't get them elsewhere, but employers seem to value PhDs far and above Bachelor or Masters degrees.
Cexy
2. Because the job is mathematically very intense (stochastic calculus, probability, PDEs, monte carlo etc) involves lots of programming (C++ and VBA mainly) and involves doing research (to a greater or lesser degree). A quantitative PhD will give you (some of) those skills. Not that you can't get them elsewhere, but employers seem to value PhDs far and above Bachelor or Masters degrees.
If you want to become a trader or a stockbroker why don't you accost a senior broker get in a taxi with him and then do a rubix cube for him by the time he has got to where he wanted to go. Then, turn up for the preliminary interview in rags with paint all over yourself, then, bob's your uncle.
Related discussions
- CS @ Uni Of Manchester
- Trading Job without a STEM Degree?
- LSE vs UCL for Quant
- career path / alevel help to be a quantitative analyst!!!
- Joint Maths And Economics - Enough maths for quant work/masters?
- Anyone Studying Maths or staying at shrub hill
- finance jobs
- Quantitative analyst degree
- Citadel Trader here!
- Economics or STEM at Nottingham for Investment Banking
- Finance internships
- Best degree to study for finance
- Is this a bad idea?
- Does econ and management at Oxford involve enough maths?
- Becoming a Quant in the UK
- Chances of getting into accounting/finance in Uni
- I can't decide between a maths or maths and stats degree
- Which unis should i apply to for maths?
- Degree/ Uni choice advice
- Jobs with LSE Econ/Econ & Maths
Latest
Trending
Last reply 1 month ago
Should I reapply to internships using the same candidate profile next year?Last reply 2 months ago
Careers useful as a stepping point to economic consultancies?Last reply 3 months ago
Looking for Internship/Work Shadowing Opportunities in BirminghamLast reply 4 months ago
Rejected for PwC summer internship, where did I go wrong?
