Why do people hate communism so much?
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Original post by Bill Nye
In theory it's great, however in practice it isn't
It's not great in theory or practice. There is nothing theoretically good about taking from highly productive people and giving it to the nonproductive dregs of society.
Original post by bars from mars
It's not great in theory or practice. There is nothing theoretically good about taking from highly productive people and giving it to the nonproductive dregs of society.
There might be a lot wrong with communism but most of the arguments made against it in forums like these, aside from those that reference authoritarian regimes, completely fail because they are normative, i.e. they treat human behaviour and motivation under the requirements and limitations of capitalism as if this is just how human behaviour 'is' period.
There's a saying that if you put a person in a cage they will behave like an animal. Put a person into capitalism and they will behave like a person subject to capitalism and the specific circumstances which that capitalism has brought them to.
each system has its flaws. there is no perfect system.
Original post by Axiomasher
It's interesting that Marx's conception of communism was to be a condition without any centralised government and where people lived as communities (it's no surprise that there are Marxist anarchists for example). This fits with Marx and Engel's 'Historical Materialism' which posits that humans evolved, more or less, living as hunter-gatherer communist communities and that all subsequent (and very recent) modes of production have broken that up. In this theory humans return to communism when social/technological circumstances emerge sufficiently to promote that.
As much as I deride communism when I see it in politics today (it is simply impractical)... I agree with all of this.
People in large cities are known to have higher average standards of living, yet little corresponding happiness or self-fulfillment to show for it. With the traditional city model anyway.
I'd add only one thing, that it'll take more than social/technological circumstances to change for it to work. There's a large genetic factor that plays a role, that is much harder to change. More internet, more pop-up notifications on your smartphone, faster travel, and higher population densities aren't enough. All those factors achieve on their own, is cram people together into tighter spaces, physically and mentally. Our brains aren't wired to cope with this very well.
This has been recognised though, by people, governments, and businesses alike... that have been gradually responding by implementing ergonomic design principles in their products to make them more 'hassle-free', and even adapting their corporate structures and office enviornments to it. I don't think any revolution is necessary, like you see some annoying people yelling about. It's happening by itself, rather naturally. People want to live relatively happy fulfilling lives, and are even prepared to pay money for it, or sacrifice a little pay. Ironically perhaps, a lot of this is happening through the mechanics of capitalism itself, and government interventions in urban planning for example.
Some of these iterations work, some don't though. Those that don't, obviously shouldn't be pursued. Simply 'paying more' doesn't guarantee value for money.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Bernadette04
But look at Cuba...the best healthcare system and education system in the world, and even the right wing press grudgingly admire their education system.
Their healthcare and education systems are very good by the standards of developing countries, and they have high life expectancy and low infant mortality. But they do not compare all that favourably to the best healthcare systems in the developed world. They have a shortage of good equipment and lack the latest technology. Also given that they are a communist country they are strongly suspected of doctoring (no pun intended) the medical statistics to look better than they actually are. East Germany was also praised as being hugely successful in many areas even compared to West Germany, until the Berlin Wall fell and the real story came out:
"In the East German statistics yearbook of 1990, the foreign trade figures of previous years were reported. This revealed that the state of East German foreign trade in relation to Western industrialised countries was precarious as far back as 1986, whereas in actual fact, until the fall of East Germany, seemingly great export achievements had been reported (and were even believed by the West)." - Page 14
http://von-der-lippe.org/dokumente/statistics_gdr.pdf
If for example Britain were communist, the Establishment would be destroyed and that could never happen because the elected and priveleged would not allow it to. Communism is feared and hated because we are told it is wrong for us. We are not allowed by the media to stop and think for a moment whether it would be preferable or not.
But we are allowed to pick up a history book and talk to people from Communist countries. Anyone who does so is unlikely to find Communism a good idea.
Original post by Bernadette04
The global mostly right wing media control what you read in peppers and what gets put on our TVs...so a hate campaign against communism and indeed against socialism is out in front of people on a daily basis. The media fear any form of limitation or control or even supervision so they rail against communism and socialism so they can carry on peddling their right wing views.
Most people are sheep and go with the flock. You will often hear many people say “but in the news they said...etc etc”and believe every word the media tells them.
But look at Cuba...the best healthcare system and education system in the world, and even the right wing press grudgingly admire their education system.
If for example Britain were communist, the Establishment would be destroyed and that could never happen because the elected and priveleged would not allow it to. Communism is feared and hated because we are told it is wrong for us. We are not allowed by the media to stop and think for a moment whether it would be preferable or not.
Even socialism is being denied a hearing in Britain today. Jeremy Corbyn is the most feared leader of the Labour Party Simply because he wants to hold big business to account, make them pay their taxes, renationalise and publically own our rail system, totally restructure our NHS and education systems so they work for the many...and he wants to reign in the excesses of the media and hold them to account to. And the media won’t have it, so every smear campaign they can think of against Corbyn is made headline news so it seeps into people’s consciousness. The global media are very clever, they control the way most people think.
Most people are sheep and go with the flock. You will often hear many people say “but in the news they said...etc etc”and believe every word the media tells them.
But look at Cuba...the best healthcare system and education system in the world, and even the right wing press grudgingly admire their education system.
If for example Britain were communist, the Establishment would be destroyed and that could never happen because the elected and priveleged would not allow it to. Communism is feared and hated because we are told it is wrong for us. We are not allowed by the media to stop and think for a moment whether it would be preferable or not.
Even socialism is being denied a hearing in Britain today. Jeremy Corbyn is the most feared leader of the Labour Party Simply because he wants to hold big business to account, make them pay their taxes, renationalise and publically own our rail system, totally restructure our NHS and education systems so they work for the many...and he wants to reign in the excesses of the media and hold them to account to. And the media won’t have it, so every smear campaign they can think of against Corbyn is made headline news so it seeps into people’s consciousness. The global media are very clever, they control the way most people think.
To be frank, you only need to write the truth about Antifa to make them look bad. They are yobs that vandalize property, intimidate people, and generally show very little (if any) respect for wider society. Like most yobs do of any genre.
Original post by bars from mars
It's not great in theory or practice. There is nothing theoretically good about taking from highly productive people and giving it to the nonproductive dregs of society.
Fair enough but if you look into it extremely simply, then it seems alright, until you look into it properly
Original post by Bill Nye
Fair enough but if you look into it extremely simply, then it seems alright, until you look into it properly
It seems alright only because it's well intentioned.
No disrespect to any opinion but isn't that like still honoring the Confederates? There are good parts but there are horrible parts and it has failed in support of human dignity. Yet, parts of our country are allowed to support and even promote its existence. ???
Original post by Peace_And_Love__
I don't know too much about it, but to me it sounds like a good way to run a country
On paper it sounds great, a utopia even, but when put into practice it isn't so great.
Communism is all about the people, yes, but you become more of a number in this society than you do in capitalism. Your whole existence is to provide for the community rather than yourself; you have no option to become an individual because your entire being us for other people. Due to this, there will be no innovation, no strive to become more advanced, and thus you become stagnant. Tribes are like this, the ones you see in Africa and the tropical rainforests, they can effectively be considered communist because the entire societal makeup is to benefit the entire population and not oneself, which is why they still run around half naked and haven't progressed technologically.
Capitalism on the other hand is all about personal growth, wealth and competition. Competition breeds innovation which is why countries who are capitalist are richer and technologically advanced. You can also say that we are unhappy but happiness is different from person to person, country to country, so can't really be measured. Happiness is also the responsibility of the individual so shouldn't be placed upon society. I'm pretty sure there are very unhappy people in tribes as well as cities.
Now either ends of the spectrum are bad for a society which is why we have to achieve a balance of both. I'd say the UK does this well, albeit we are moving more towards capitalism in the spectrum just by the sheer wealth gap, but then at the same time the business rates at the moment are a very high which stop small businesses from flourishing and achieving mass wealth and people who make more money are taxed more just because they earn more; a communist ideology. In my opinion, those who make more money shouldn't be taxed more. They earned that through hard work yet they are being punished for it? How does that encourage people to make more money? It holds people back from achieving because there's a wall which stops them.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by iAngely
On paper it sounds great, a utopia even, but when put into practice it isn't so great.
Communism is all about the people, yes, but you become more of a number in this society than you do in capitalism. Your whole existence is to provide for the community rather than yourself; you have no option to become an individual because your entire being us for other people. Due to this, there will be no innovation, no strive to become more advanced, and thus you become stagnant. Tribes are like this, the ones you see in Africa and the tropical rainforests, they can effectively be considered communist because the entire societal makeup is to benefit the entire population and not oneself, which is why they still run around half naked and haven't progressed technologically.
Capitalism on the other hand is all about personal growth, wealth and competition. Competition breeds innovation which is why countries who are capitalist are richer and technologically advanced. You can also say that we are unhappy but happiness is different from person to person, country to country, so can't really be measured. Happiness is also the responsibility of the individual so shouldn't be placed upon society. I'm pretty sure there are very unhappy people in tribes as well as cities.
Now either ends of the spectrum are bad for a society which is why we have to achieve a balance of both. I'd say the UK does this well, albeit we are moving more towards capitalism in the spectrum just by the sheer wealth gap, but then at the same time the business rates at the moment are a very high which stop small businesses from flourishing and achieving mass wealth and people who make more money are taxed more just because they earn more; a communist ideology. In my opinion, those who make more money shouldn't be taxed more. They earned that through hard work yet they are being punished for it? How does that encourage people to make more money? It holds people back from achieving because there's a wall which stops them.
Communism is all about the people, yes, but you become more of a number in this society than you do in capitalism. Your whole existence is to provide for the community rather than yourself; you have no option to become an individual because your entire being us for other people. Due to this, there will be no innovation, no strive to become more advanced, and thus you become stagnant. Tribes are like this, the ones you see in Africa and the tropical rainforests, they can effectively be considered communist because the entire societal makeup is to benefit the entire population and not oneself, which is why they still run around half naked and haven't progressed technologically.
Capitalism on the other hand is all about personal growth, wealth and competition. Competition breeds innovation which is why countries who are capitalist are richer and technologically advanced. You can also say that we are unhappy but happiness is different from person to person, country to country, so can't really be measured. Happiness is also the responsibility of the individual so shouldn't be placed upon society. I'm pretty sure there are very unhappy people in tribes as well as cities.
Now either ends of the spectrum are bad for a society which is why we have to achieve a balance of both. I'd say the UK does this well, albeit we are moving more towards capitalism in the spectrum just by the sheer wealth gap, but then at the same time the business rates at the moment are a very high which stop small businesses from flourishing and achieving mass wealth and people who make more money are taxed more just because they earn more; a communist ideology. In my opinion, those who make more money shouldn't be taxed more. They earned that through hard work yet they are being punished for it? How does that encourage people to make more money? It holds people back from achieving because there's a wall which stops them.
I've always seen this phrase: "it's sound absolutely amazing on paper but not in practise" thrown around...but, what exactly sounds so appealing about communism on paper?
Moreover, the UK is moving towards social democracy, not capitalism. We spend more on public services year in year out.
Hey, 100,000,000 killed in the 20th century...what's not to like?
We'll get it right this time.👍😁
We'll get it right this time.👍😁
Original post by Bernadette04
The global mostly right wing media control what you read in peppers and what gets put on our TVs...so a hate campaign against communism and indeed against socialism is out in front of people on a daily basis. The media fear any form of limitation or control or even supervision so they rail against communism and socialism so they can carry on peddling their right wing views.
Most people are sheep and go with the flock. You will often hear many people say “but in the news they said...etc etc”and believe every word the media tells them.
But look at Cuba...the best healthcare system and education system in the world, and even the right wing press grudgingly admire their education system.
If for example Britain were communist, the Establishment would be destroyed and that could never happen because the elected and priveleged would not allow it to. Communism is feared and hated because we are told it is wrong for us. We are not allowed by the media to stop and think for a moment whether it would be preferable or not.
Even socialism is being denied a hearing in Britain today. Jeremy Corbyn is the most feared leader of the Labour Party Simply because he wants to hold big business to account, make them pay their taxes, renationalise and publically own our rail system, totally restructure our NHS and education systems so they work for the many...and he wants to reign in the excesses of the media and hold them to account to. And the media won’t have it, so every smear campaign they can think of against Corbyn is made headline news so it seeps into people’s consciousness. The global media are very clever, they control the way most people think.
Most people are sheep and go with the flock. You will often hear many people say “but in the news they said...etc etc”and believe every word the media tells them.
But look at Cuba...the best healthcare system and education system in the world, and even the right wing press grudgingly admire their education system.
If for example Britain were communist, the Establishment would be destroyed and that could never happen because the elected and priveleged would not allow it to. Communism is feared and hated because we are told it is wrong for us. We are not allowed by the media to stop and think for a moment whether it would be preferable or not.
Even socialism is being denied a hearing in Britain today. Jeremy Corbyn is the most feared leader of the Labour Party Simply because he wants to hold big business to account, make them pay their taxes, renationalise and publically own our rail system, totally restructure our NHS and education systems so they work for the many...and he wants to reign in the excesses of the media and hold them to account to. And the media won’t have it, so every smear campaign they can think of against Corbyn is made headline news so it seeps into people’s consciousness. The global media are very clever, they control the way most people think.
I can’t take somebody who fails to spell the word papers correctly seriously.
Original post by Peace_And_Love__
I don't know too much about it, but to me it sounds like a good way to run a country
Pick up a history book on 20th century Soviet Union and China and you'll see how 'good' communism is.
Original post by Peace_And_Love__
I don't know too much about it, but to me it sounds like a good way to run a country
It doesn't work because humans are *******s and like to be lazy/do the bare minimum but still live in luxury. (For more info read Animal Farm/The Russian Revolution)
Original post by HighOnGoofballs
I've always seen this phrase: "it's sound absolutely amazing on paper but not in practise" thrown around...but, what exactly sounds so appealing about communism on paper?
Moreover, the UK is moving towards social democracy, not capitalism. We spend more on public services year in year out.
Moreover, the UK is moving towards social democracy, not capitalism. We spend more on public services year in year out.
It's appealing if humans weren't such *******s. Cos it could eradicate world hunger, poverty, etc as the wealth is shared equally, as is food and other resources. But in reality humans look for the easy way out and the system becomes corrupt really quickly so that's why it looks good on paper but not in practice.
Original post by Shadowdraconis
It's appealing if humans weren't such *******s. Cos it could eradicate world hunger, poverty, etc as the wealth is shared equally, as is food and other resources. But in reality humans look for the easy way out and the system becomes corrupt really quickly so that's why it looks good on paper but not in practice.
No where does communism say it would eradicae world hunger. poverty etc. what a load of tripe.
Communism is defined as a stateless classless society. What we can infer from this is that there is no state, so anarchism, and that the means of production and distribution is conducted by the people as a collective.
We can presume that therefore, everyone is equally rich (or poor), which sounds awful. There are no classes, which is awful. And there is no state, which is awful.
Everyone about communism on paper is awful.
Original post by HighOnGoofballs
No where does communism say it would eradicae world hunger. poverty etc. what a load of tripe.
Communism is defined as a stateless classless society. What we can infer from this is that there is no state, so anarchism, and that the means of production and distribution is conducted by the people as a collective.
We can presume that therefore, everyone is equally rich (or poor), which sounds awful. There are no classes, which is awful. And there is no state, which is awful.
Everyone about communism on paper is awful.
Communism is defined as a stateless classless society. What we can infer from this is that there is no state, so anarchism, and that the means of production and distribution is conducted by the people as a collective.
We can presume that therefore, everyone is equally rich (or poor), which sounds awful. There are no classes, which is awful. And there is no state, which is awful.
Everyone about communism on paper is awful.
I'm theory it would if the world was full of truthful, hard-working, not powerhungry humans (so basically "perfect" humans which some could argue can't even be considered humans tbh), because people would then work to the best of their ability and the people who couldn't (such as people with disabilities) would still get the same as everyone else rather than being in unemployment and unable to feed their families as they are currently (in developing countries mostly). A classless society would also be good (if we have "perfect" humans) because there won't be any inequality, and everyone would have equal opportunities as well as being treated the same regardless of job status. Still assuming this is with perfect humans, there would be no wars because what would anyone have to fight about (in the past people have fought for land and power which won't happen if it was perfect humans + communism), they have pretty much the exact same things and if there was a war it would be mutually destructive because both sides would have the same weapons and the same amount of money to spend on weapons. Also crime rates would be lower because everyone has access to food, water and other necessities and so people woudn't be forced to steal to feed themselves and their families.
Why does that above sound awful?
But replace the "perfect" humans in my example with acctual humans and all hell breaks loose, because this system soon becomes corrupt because of human desire to have power, wealth and and advantage (which I guess is evolutionarily hardwired into us) as well as doing the bare minimum in order to get it. The moment a few people begin to take advantage of the system, (by not working to their best ability cos they know they'll get the same things out of it) it collapses. So although I don't support/like communism, It does look good on paper, when ignoring what acctual humans are like. (It's like when you're calculating mechanics questions in maths you assume that everything you calculate is in a vaccume so that there aren't any external influences although that would be impossible as the question's talking about a person in a lift.)
Original post by Peace_And_Love__
I don't know too much about it, but to me it sounds like a good way to run a country
The Soviet Union was a 'Workers' Paradise' but they needed soldiers at the borders with orders to shoot anyone who tried to escape from the paradise.
Most people fiercely defend the NHS as an idea, which is that it is equally available and free at the point of delivery of service. It is provided according to need and we pay, through taxation, according to our means. It may not be perfect but it is an example of 'communism' of a kind.
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