Turn on thread page Beta

Just sent out a rude email to my future employer...now what? watch

    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    Post removed
    Offline

    15
    You don't want to start your job looking like a pushover. Well done for sticking up for yourself.

    You could have made the email more formal though. When dealing with HR, you don't want to give them anything they can use against you.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Well it depends who reads it because some people will take offence to it and others won’t. The email was a bit strong and in their eyes they wouldn’t need this extra information you provided them with about how much you paid. They’ll probably email back for any inconvenience, and when moving from one job to another is never a smooth transition so there are always expected issues. All you can do is sit back and wait tbh
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    You don't want to start your job looking like a pushover. Well done for sticking up for yourself.

    You could have made the email more formal though. When dealing with HR, you don't want to give them anything they can use against you.
    Thanks for the reassuring comment.

    I have sent at least 3 emails in the past emphasising what date I want to start work on (16/04), but he still went ahead and did whatever was convenient to him, completely forgetting about the financial side for me. That's why I was a bit TMI in the middle section of the email to emphasise that this isn't about "preference", and that I absolutely need the contract to start ASAP. So I thought throwing around some scary numbers might get him to realise the importance of my start date.

    I would have said through the phone, but he never picks up, so I could only email.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    As someone who works in HR I can tell you that when we 'don't get a contract done' for someone to start it is normally for good reason and beyond our control i.e. the contract is subject to references which have not been received in time so the contract can't be issued, we are waiting for something else from the new employee that the contract is subject to (such as proof of right to work, qualifications etc) or we have not been provided with the full information by the hiring manager who thinks a contract can be issued two minutes before someone is due to start!So, whilst I can see you're angry you may have had a go at the wrong person / dept - and made yourself look bad in the process.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by nb82)
    As someone who works in HR I can tell you that when we 'don't get a contract done' for someone to start it is normally for good reason and beyond our control i.e. the contract is subject to references which have not been received in time so the contract can't be issued, we are waiting for something else from the new employee that the contract is subject to (such as proof of right to work, qualifications etc) or we have not been provided with the full information by the hiring manager who thinks a contract can be issued two minutes before someone is due to start!So, whilst I can see you're angry you may have had a go at the wrong person / dept - and made yourself look bad in the process.
    There was no reference check. This is one of the biggest companies in the country. So I've applied to them through their website and uploaded all my qualifications there. They had also taken a copy of my right to work the very day of the interview (back in January) and issued the job offer shortly after. We were both happy that all was fine and agreed about my starting date (16/04), and I gave my notice in my previous job based on that (12/03). If HR thought that he might need more time than a month to sort out my contract, I would have been fine with that and given my notice later. But I didn't think it was acceptable to say one thing, then do another...and pass it over at the end of the working week like there's no problem. There is one.

    I also forgot to say that I'm relocating for this job. Currently live in south east and the job is in the west of the country (closer to wales), and they're not helping with relocations costs.

    If you saw the history of my emails with him, you'd understand that he basically want me to have a company induction on "A Monday", and because he couldn't arrange it this coming Monday he pushed it over to the next one, and pushed the contract too in the same way.
    And what I was trying to tell him in my email is that the start of the contract doesn't have to be tied down to the induction Monday.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Firstly, the HR guy is not your employer - he's an employee just like you will be soon. As far as you're concerned, your employer is whoever controls the budget for the department or team that you'll be joining (probably whoever hired you, maybe your future boss/manager, or your head of department)

    The way your e-mail was worded wasn't rude, but somewhat passive-aggressive and unprofessional - you could have improved the tone and left out a few unnecessary details; it's rather too late to change that, although for future reference it's a good idea to learn how to keep a level head when interacting with other people on a professional level, even when you've had a bad day.

    You have no way of knowing what the HR guy is like or how he'll react. He may say nothing about it, or he may raise something with your future boss. in any case, the best thing to do right now is just to leave it alone. If you have any future correspondance with this person then make sure you keep it professional and courteous.

    If you ever feel like writing sarcasm/passive aggression in an e-mail on a professional/workplace issue, then it's time to stop writing the e-mail and return to it the next day. Tensions between employees do happen sometimes for all sorts of reasons, and people can generally be forgiven a one-off 'bad day in the office', but being new, you do want to be extremely careful that you do not earn yourself a reputation for being unapproachable or difficult to work with, because it will be impossible to shake off that reputation once it sticks. While that won't cost your job, you might find that the company is a much less pleasant place for you to work at if everybody around you has this impression (you won't hear it, but people gossip - like "Hey have you met that new guy yet? Bob said that he's a real ass.." etc.).
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by winterscoming)
    X
    That is some EXCELLENT advice!

    What would you have done in my situation to make sure the point does get across without sounding unprofessional? Because like I said, I had emailed him at least 3 times before about my preferred starting date and emphasising that it needed to be 16/04, but he still pushed it forward. Which made me think that he didn't realise why it was very important for me to start on that specific date or soon after (and not "any Monday" just because it works with his induction).
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    That is some EXCELLENT advice!

    What would you have done in my situation to make sure the point does get across without sounding unprofessional? Because like I said, I had emailed him at least 3 times before about my preferred starting date and emphasising that it needed to be 16/04, but he still pushed it forward. Which made me think that he didn't realise why it was very important for me to start on that specific date or soon after (and not "any Monday" just because it works with his induction).
    If you'd already tried the HR guy several times and had no luck with him, then the best person to try would be your boss, because really it should be down to his budget and timescales.

    In most companies, HR are administrators who handle a lot of paperwork/emails/phonecalls/etc - HR are generally tasked with following procedures and instructions from senior management, so you could think of him as a representative or middle-man (HR are also supposed to escalate issues upwards, but you have no way of knowing whether this has happened here). It's very unlikely that he'll be the key decision maker - the decision on your start date should normally be up to your boss.

    Of course, you might find out that your future boss has needed to push your date back for a good reason, but at least it will be between you and him; but in any case you could try e-mailing the guy who offered you the job and agreed the start date, and say something like:

    Hi <manager name>

    I've had some correspondence with <HR name> with regards to my contractual start date at <company>. As per our previous verbal agreement, I had expected to start on <date>, but the contract I have received has specified <date> instead. I will be leaving my current job on <date> and therefore available to start immediately at the previously agreed date. The date written on my contract would represent a temporary gap in earnings for that period which I am not able to absorb right now, so I am writing to ask whether the contract could please be amended to specify the previously agreed start date, and whether you would be able to convey this onward to whoever is responsible for creating the contract.

    I look forward to working with you soon.

    Best Regards

    <Your name>
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by winterscoming)
    x:
    That's a really professional looking email! How did you learn how to write this way? Does it come with practice or do you have some sort of training/ intense self teaching from the internet. My degree was really technical, so I'm not great with words

    See the thing in this case is that the reason why the contract has been delayed is not "a mystery". The HR guy did communicate it to me, and it's the fact that they only run their company inductions on Mondays, and so I have to start on A Monday. So basically, he thinks he can have my contract drafted by the end of next Monday, Tuesday the latest. But then the nearest Monday after that would be the one after (23rd).
    And what I'm trying to convey through my email is that my contract start date does not have to be linked to the induction Monday. That he should get it started as soon as it's possible. So for the contract to start say next Tuesday or so, and to book every other day of the week out of my holiday entitlement. So that as much of the week as possible can be paid holidays instead of unpaid leave.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    That's a really professional looking email! How did you learn how to write this way?
    Rofl

    It's hardly professional.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by TCA2b)
    Rofl

    It's hardly professional.
    Would you show me how to do it better?
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    That's a really professional looking email! How did you learn how to write this way? Does it come with practice or do you have some sort of training/ intense self teaching from the internet. My degree was really technical, so I'm not great with words
    I'm a software engineer, and all my education/training has been technical too. I've always been a stickler for things like spelling, grammar and English language usage, but that's just me. I can't really point to any kind of training or self-teaching, except that I read a lot of blogs, technical documentation, newspapers, and other boring things, and I spend a fair amount of time writing similarly boring things too. (On programming forums, TSR, StackOverflow, and work e-mails/docs, etc.)

    But really, professionalism is about etiquette around the kinds of things you'd expect from people in the workplace such as honesty, respect, courtesy, transparency, openness, etc.

    When it comes to writing emails or any other kind of work-related communication, then it's a matter of sticking 100% to the relevant facts and using precise information - it's not about the specific words you use or your vocabulary - you just need to be able to create grammatically correct sentences that people can understand. Actually, simple plain English is often far better than trying to sound intellectual by choosing flowery language, because people can usually tell when you're trying too hard (And please don't ever fall into the trap of using meaningless business buzzwords either...)

    I would say just think about the kinds of things which are and aren't appropriate to do and say in the workplace, then apply that to e-mails - which usually means switching off your ego and any pretence, staying clear of any kinds of baseless assumptions about situations/people, or anything which could be interpreted as being emotional or judgemental, and avoiding any kinds of details and information which are personal and unrelated to the workplace or the situation. Remember that professionalism is about your behaviour and attitude towards other people, it's not about ways of writing or how well you can use the English language

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    See the thing in this case is that the reason why the contract has been delayed is not "a mystery". The HR guy did communicate it to me, and it's the fact that they only run their company inductions on Mondays, and so I have to start on A Monday. So basically, he thinks he can have my contract drafted by the end of next Monday, Tuesday the latest. But then the nearest Monday after that would be the one after (23rd).
    And what I'm trying to convey through my email is that my contract start date does not have to be linked to the induction Monday. That he should get it started as soon as it's possible. So for the contract to start say next Tuesday or so, and to book every other day of the week out of my holiday entitlement. So that as much of the week as possible can be paid holidays instead of unpaid leave.
    It sounds like you just need to talk to the boss directly. Don't be surprised if somebody from HR feels like they're tied by a bunch of rules and procedures, or that they're not allowed to do things which don't fit the company manual. You've clearly taken it as far as you can with HR, and your boss should have more of an interest in making sure that you're happy at the company (afterall, you are his responsibility now that he's hired you). The worst he can say is 'no', but at least you'll get further than with the HR guy - your boss may have more authority to make things happen.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Basically, I've lined up a job for it to start exactly a month after I gave my 1 month notice in my previous one. I was supposed to start next Monday (16th) in the new job, but HR didn't write my contract on time and is now asking me to start a week later.
    The email is a mistake, but the bigger one is resigning and signing a lease for a flat in a new town without a contract in your hand. Never do that again.

    He also sent me an email saying that he prefers it if I started the week after for logistical reasons. But he sent out the email at the end of the working day yesterday (Friday) so I don't get a change to answer before the week where I was meant to start work!
    Not ideal, but you don't have a contract yet.

    Is my email rude?
    You come across as a complainer, which isn't ideal. Email is difficult, because it's easy to fire one off when you're annoyed - don't. The tone may not come across as you intend. Keep complaint emails to the facts - it really isn't productive to say how bad they are - let the facts speak for themselves. I'd have just said that, financially (or some other reason), a later start date was an issue, and propose a solution.

    Never send an email when angry. By all means, write one to get it out of your system (without addressing it, or having an invalid address that will prevent it from being accidentally sent), but come back to it later when you're calm.

    Also note that this isn't the HR guy's first mistake and that he's racked up a bunch of situations where he was utterly incompetent throughout my hiring process.
    Again, your biggest mistake was committing yourself to leave your current job, and to a lease, without a contract. You're now learning more about the new company, but now don't really have the option of not moving. That's the biggest lesson to learn here IMO.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Would you show me how to do it better?
    There's google, for that. Winterscoming left pretty good feedback on the issues with the email.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)

    Now I know that your hands were tied down since you weren't the one personally doing my contract, but if you can please get it started as soon as possible. Say Tuesday the 17th? And book every other day of next week as paid holidays from my yearly entitlement. I will then be happy to start my induction on Monday 23rd.

    .
    This bit to me is a bit rude and unprofessional. The way you've written it is more like a demand rather than a question...

    Well this whole paragraph is. You've made it sound like you're the only thing HR have to deal with and like you're more of a priority than the other things they have to do. You don't know. Maybe the person who was drawing up your contract had a family emergency and had to postpone it.


    To be honest I think it's not the best start especially considering you don't officially work for them yet (Until a contract is signed you don't work for them). What if they turn around now and say "you know what we'd rather work with someone who doesn't throw a tantrum at the first inconvenience?"
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Jackieox)
    This bit to me is a bit rude and unprofessional. The way you've written it is more like a demand rather than a question...

    Well this whole paragraph is. You've made it sound like you're the only thing HR have to deal with and like you're more of a priority than the other things they have to do. You don't know. Maybe the person who was drawing up your contract had a family emergency and had to postpone it.


    To be honest I think it's not the best start especially considering you don't officially work for them yet (Until a contract is signed you don't work for them). What if they turn around now and say "you know what we'd rather work with someone who doesn't throw a tantrum at the first inconvenience?"
    Thanks for your feedback.

    However, I think it's somewhat biased to the employer.
    As far as I'm concerned this job/contract (or the plan to get ahead with them) is a two way street. They benefit from my work (I will be doing a very specialised high skilled work for them, the pay is >£30K), and I benefit from the job salary and benefits.

    Now the way HR has done it made it sound like I don't actually count, that my opinion doesn't matter and that it's all in their hands (I was led to believe otherwise in the interview where they went on for a very long while about how important "employee happiness" is to them and how much they value their skilled workforce)! The fact that he decided that just because it caused them some inconvenience to draft up the contract within the deadlines we had agreed, that he's happy to make a decision without consulting with me first, and to just drop the bomb in the form of an email on the last working hour of the Friday before the Monday I was meant to start! Well that makes me think that he doesn't care at all about my opinion (otherwise he'd have given me a call instead of dropping an email) and that this contract/job is not a two parties thing but just his part.

    So according to him, all that matters is that he's able to do his job well at his own pace, and it doesn't matter what financial damage I incur in the way! And that's just not right!

    Also, my email wasn't trying to tell him that the contract should still be drafted by Monday just because that's what he had promised and what was pre-agreed. I did acknowledge that his hands were tied and was realistic about the situation. I was just trying to clarify to him that the start of my contract doesn't have to be tied to the "induction Monday" (Basically trying to show him a 3rd way of thinking about things). That my contract could start with paid holidays without me being physically in the workplace and having to take induction not on a Monday. Which basically is a middle work around between the start date I wanted (Mon 16/04) and the one he's thinking of (Mon 23/04).

    I also think that he massively mis-planned the whole thing. He should have foreseen this well ahead. As I said, I don't mind him taking a bit more time to draft up the contract. What I do mind is him promising that I will definitely start the job on 16/04 and him not being able to deliver on that. He should have given himself a bit more leeway and let me know so I can leave my previous job a bit later.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Thanks for your feedback.

    However, I think it's somewhat biased to the employer.
    As far as I'm concerned this job/contract (or the plan to get ahead with them) is a two way street. They benefit from my work (I will be doing a very specialised high skilled work for them, the pay is >£30K), and I benefit from the job salary and benefits.

    Now the way HR has done it made it sound like I don't actually count, that my opinion doesn't matter and that it's all in their hands (I was led to believe otherwise in the interview where they went on for a very long while about how important "employee happiness" is to them and how much they value their skilled workforce)! The fact that he decided that just because it caused them some inconvenience to draft up the contract within the deadlines we had agreed, that he's happy to make a decision without consulting with me first, and to just drop the bomb in the form of an email on the last working hour of the Friday before the Monday I was meant to start! Well that makes me think that he doesn't care at all about my opinion (otherwise he'd have given me a call instead of dropping an email) and that this contract/job is not a two parties thing but just his part.

    So according to him, all that matters is that he's able to do his job well at his own pace, and it doesn't matter what financial damage I incur in the way! And that's just not right!

    Also, my email wasn't trying to tell him that the contract should still be drafted by Monday just because that's what he had promised and what was pre-agreed. I did acknowledge that his hands were tied and was realistic about the situation. I was just trying to clarify to him that the start of my contract doesn't have to be tied to the "induction Monday" (Basically trying to show him a 3rd way of thinking about things). That my contract could start with paid holidays without me being physically in the workplace and having to take induction not on a Monday. Which basically is a middle work around between the start date I wanted (Mon 16/04) and the one he's thinking of (Mon 23/04).

    I also think that he massively mis-planned the whole thing. He should have foreseen this well ahead. As I said, I don't mind him taking a bit more time to draft up the contract. What I do mind is him promising that I will definitely start the job on 16/04 and him not being able to deliver on that. He should have given himself a bit more leeway and let me know so I can leave my previous job a bit later.
    I'm struggling to see how it is highly skilled yet paying around the 30k mark. Surely if it was highly skilled it would have a salary to match. Now don't get me wrong 30k isn't a bad salary but isn't one that reflects "Highly skilled work"

    I agree it was bad of them to send an email rather than call however it is always better to have a written log so maybe he didn't have the time to call and send the follow up email.

    You have literally no idea whats happening in the office right now and I can almost guarantee that the reason they told you isn't the reason..
    How do you know for certain that the person training you hasn't had an emergency or something?
    How do you know for certain that the project you would've been assigned too hasn't been pushed back for whatever reason? Pretty pointless you being there for a week with nothing to do.
    How do you know that your boss has been hoping to assign you to a certain project but for whatever reason that hasn't been possible so he has to find another one that matches your skill of work.
    How do you know that your boss hasn't requested you start a week later as that matches his schedule better?


    Maybe one of the above did happen and they wanted to leave it as long as possible incase there was an update. Pretty pointless telling you earlier then the project comes through in time and you could've started on time.

    As for what financial damage you occur. You don't work for them yet. They don't owe you anything.
    I'm not sure what company you work for but unless it is a minimum wage hourly job it is extremely rare to get your contract on the first day rather than in advance. Normally they provide it to you in advance to give you chance to read it and question any potential issues before hand not on your first day.

    It's not the HR guy who decides when you can start your job. You have fired this email to HR when it could've been your boss who has told him that he wants you a week later. It just makes you come across as unprofessional and directing the blame at the wrong person...
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    I think it was quite rude. You could explain your issue I.e. the financial side politely and ask if there is anything you can do to make this work for both of you. Paid holiday is a good suggestion but I doubt they will feel like helping you out now.
    • Community Assistant
    • CV Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    CV Helper
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    As far as I'm concerned this job/contract (or the plan to get ahead with them) is a two way street. They benefit from my work (I will be doing a very specialised high skilled work for them, the pay is >£30K), and I benefit from the job salary and benefits.
    And this is a typical 'problem employee' approach. This approach places all the risk on the employer and none on the employee, as far as an employer is concerned, this is a precursor to taking on another entitled employee who has no appreciation of business. The business only benefits from your work if you are good at it, and remain good at it, whereas the law gives you immense protections to keep taking that salary and benefits pretty much regardless of your attendance or the quality of your work, or at least, not without great time, effort and cost for the employer.

    The relationship patently isn't one of equals at the moment, because they haven't give you a start date and you need a start date because you've quit your old job. They clearly hold all the power and you've demonstrated great naivety in the world of work.
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 16, 2018
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.