Penn M&T or Cambridge Engineering

How does the UPenn M&T Program compare to Cambridge Engineering? I believe both are amazing courses, but which is better if my career aspiration is doing tech startup, or gaining a place at either big tech firms or investment banks?

Reply 1

Doones

Original post by fuggedaboutit

Do you want a joint honours in Economics & Engineering?

Do you want to work in the UK or the US?

The Cambridge course will be much more focussed on the academic study of engineering. The UPenn course adds a lot of liberal arts on top.
(There's also the possibility of doing Management Studies at Cambridge after 2 or 3 years of Engineering)

You pays your money and makes your choice...

By the way, you need to be accepted to both to have the luxury of making the choice. Getting the offers is your first challenge. :smile:

Reply 2

artful_lounger

Universities Forum Helper

As above, Cambridge will focus by far and away on the Engineering side of things, naturally. There is Management Studies as an option but you won't have the full accredited engineering course and may be in a weaker position for more technical roles as a result.

I would note, you've specified three entirely different areas for prospective graduate interests. The startup sector, the established MNC tech sector and banking are entirely different areas with different cultures and implicit "requirements" to go into. While either degree is suitable for all of them broadly, if you are that indecisive the Penn option may be better as it is easier to change your major there, than move into another degree course in the UK (Cambridge makes it slightly easier in general, but it's still not a given).

Otherwise as above, the UPenn (and in particular, Wharton) tag will carry you further in the US, while Cambridge will probably carry you a little more in the UK (at least outside of business/finance i.e. in actual engineering and technology roles). I'd suggest Cambridge would be the better option if you're interested in pursuing a PhD/EngD and hence R&D and similar things in industry. In general UK degrees by their structure tend to give you a deeper base in that subject and more research type experience (since dissertations/projects/theses are required for all honours degrees to my knowledge), however in particular the M&T programme, being a double degree programme will leave very little leeway in taking further electives in engineering and pursuing more research experiences. Being UPenn there will be things available, but you may struggle to fit them in.

Reply 3

Doones

Original post by artful_lounger

There is Management Studies as an option but you won't have the full accredited engineering course and may be in a weaker position for more technical roles as a result.

3 years of engineering at Cambridge prior to doing MST will effectively get you a BEng which would then need a further year's knowledge "at masters level" for Chartership* but that can be gained during professional work experience. It's obviously less straightforward than having an accredited MEng but it's doable.

*Alongside the necessary 5 years or so work experience anyway.

But yes, if the primary objective is to be an actual engineer MST isn't the best idea.

Reply 4

artful_lounger

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by Doonesbury

Ah, I wasn't aware they could go into Management Studies after the third year of the engineering course - I was thinking it would be after the second year, which would be a weaker background for sure...

Reply 5

Doones

Original post by artful_lounger

Yep - it's on their FAQ:
"I am an Engineering student. Can I take the fourth-year MEng and then take MST?
No. If you have already taken a fourth year, you are not eligible for MST, which can only be taken as a third or fourth year of a BA."
https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/programmes/undergraduate/faqs/

It's not explicit but the implication is MST after 3rd year Engineering is fine. Indeed a "normal" engineering student isn't guaranteed to progress to the 4th year anyway - they need to have done well enough in IB and IIA.

By the way, I was just checking the IET's "route to CEng" requirements and it seems if you have a BEng and then end up working in an engineering role that would normally require an MEng/MSc (e.g. you get promoted to one) then that work experience can meet the "at masters level" knowledge requirement.

Reply 6

artful_lounger

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by Doonesbury

Yes, my understanding is that you do need to create a portfolio of work demonstrating you are working at that level though. They may well have loosened the criteria and if the job specification just requires that you have that experience on entry and you work for x amount of time in it, you automatically satisfy that criterion though...which would probably be an improvement :tongue:

Reply 7

Smack

Volunteer Team

Original post by Doonesbury

By the way, I was just checking the IET's "route to CEng" requirements and it seems if you have a BEng and then end up working in an engineering role that would normally require an MEng/MSc (e.g. you get promoted to one) then that work experience can meet the "at masters level" knowledge requirement.

Yes, ultimately the criteria is that you can demonstrate masters level knowledge. The UK-SPEC (page 26) says:

Applicants who do not have exemplifying qualifications may demonstrate the required knowledge and understanding in other ways, but must clearly demonstrate they have achieved the same level of knowledge and understanding as those with exemplifying qualifications.

Where an exemplifying qualification is an accredited masters level degree.

Different institutions may have slightly different ways of assessing this. For example, the IStructE will now let BEng candidates sit the exam and those that pass have demonstrated masters level knowledge. The IMechE has a technical report route, etc.