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Are all art related postgraduate degrees a waste of time and money?

I have yet to meet anyone who truly benefited from taking a postgraduate degree in any arts related subject be it music, film, acting, fine art.etc.

Of all the lecturers I have ever spoken to about this, they all seem to be in agreement with me that it is in fact down to the individual student. With that being said - Wouldn't it be better to bypass a postgraduate degree in any arts related subject and to teach yourself and to have internships and other forms of work experience racked up, meet other people in the industry.etc. All practical elements that are not taught.

I know a few people who have done postgraduate degrees in songwriting and all struggle to pay off their loans now. There is no songwriting job... There never was. Nobody can teach you how to be a better songwriter. The greatest teacher is life. If you want to write a great song - live. Because a course will not show you the way.

Is it irresponsible of Universities to have courses such as songwriting on their list of postgraduate degree courses? After all, nobody ever sat the likes of John Lennon or Paul McCartney down and told them the 'right' and 'wrong' ways of doing things. Whatever happened to spontaneity? Isn't this what changes the world? Nobody ever thought Nirvana would be the big band coming out of Seattle when they did. The general consensus was that Soundgarden would be the ones.

I feel as though the greats such as Jimi Hendrix, and David Bowie were great for their way of doing things. Not because they took some course or were told of how good they were or what potential they had.

I feel this way for the Ruskin school too. People often apply because it's Oxford University. Never realizing that the main purpose of any Art is to challenge the status quo and to change things or to show a new perspective. People apply for Oxford because it's Oxford. Kudos to feed one's ego.

The time spent worrying if you're so called 'good' enough or not could be put to use showing the world your gift and following your own natural path. People wonder how some people make it and some don't. Guess what - There is no formula. What works for one does not work for another.

What has happened now is that the words Oxford, Cambridge, and any other arts or drama school with the name Royal are sought after due to their names alone. You shouldn't want to get into these schools. You should want to succeed. Getting in does not guarantee success.

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Original post by goldengradesguy
I have yet to meet anyone who truly benefited from taking a postgraduate degree in any arts related subject be it music, film, acting, fine art.etc.

Of all the lecturers I have ever spoken to about this, they all seem to be in agreement with me that it is in fact down to the individual student. With that being said - Wouldn't it be better to bypass a postgraduate degree in any arts related subject and to teach yourself and to have internships and other forms of work experience racked up, meet other people in the industry.etc. All practical elements that are not taught.

I know a few people who have done postgraduate degrees in songwriting and all struggle to pay off their loans now. There is no songwriting job... There never was. Nobody can teach you how to be a better songwriter. The greatest teacher is life. If you want to write a great song - live. Because a course will not show you the way.

Is it irresponsible of Universities to have courses such as songwriting on their list of postgraduate degree courses? After all, nobody ever sat the likes of John Lennon or Paul McCartney down and told them the 'right' and 'wrong' ways of doing things. Whatever happened to spontaneity? Isn't this what changes the world? Nobody ever thought Nirvana would be the big band coming out of Seattle when they did. The general consensus was that Soundgarden would be the ones.

I feel as though the greats such as Jimi Hendrix, and David Bowie were great for their way of doing things. Not because they took some course or were told of how good they were or what potential they had.

I feel this way for the Ruskin school too. People often apply because it's Oxford University. Never realizing that the main purpose of any Art is to challenge the status quo and to change things or to show a new perspective. People apply for Oxford because it's Oxford. Kudos to feed one's ego.

The time spent worrying if you're so called 'good' enough or not could be put to use showing the world your gift and following your own natural path. People wonder how some people make it and some don't. Guess what - There is no formula. What works for one does not work for another.

What has happened now is that the words Oxford, Cambridge, and any other arts or drama school with the name Royal are sought after due to their names alone. You shouldn't want to get into these schools. You should want to succeed. Getting in does not guarantee success.


Well Adolf Hitler was a Art student before his dictatorship... so there's that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Original post by Jang Gwangnam
Well Adolf Hitler was a Art student before his dictatorship... so there's that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Best answer I have seen in a while!:tongue:
I want to know to, because most people are saying so.
Original post by TheAlchemistress
I want to know to, because most people are saying so.


Any postgraduate degree in any Arts related subject is generally a waste of time and money because nobody cares if you do the course or not. The people it does benefit are the lecturers - because they have people on the course, and the Universities - because they can count another number on their list. This is a fact.

As far as art in Universities goes I truly believe it should be scrapped completely or replaced. Possibly replaced with courses that would benefit the graduates afterwards.

Of course Universities would want you to believe that Masters degrees are for individuals who wish to explore. But as far as Art goes, nobody cares.

I'm not being pessimistic. I would like this thread to benefit potential arts postgraduate students who are listening to lecturers who just want them on their courses and fail to help them afterwards.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Jang Gwangnam
Well Adolf Hitler was a Art student before his dictatorship... so there's that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


haha good one , take my rep XD
Original post by Jang Gwangnam
Well Adolf Hitler was a Art student before his dictatorship... so there's that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Well they do teach you to be nonconformist, to think outside the box, and to break all the rules.
Original post by goldengradesguy
I have yet to meet anyone who truly benefited from taking a postgraduate degree in any arts related subject be it music, film, acting, fine art.etc.

Of all the lecturers I have ever spoken to about this, they all seem to be in agreement with me that it is in fact down to the individual student. With that being said - Wouldn't it be better to bypass a postgraduate degree in any arts related subject and to teach yourself and to have internships and other forms of work experience racked up, meet other people in the industry.etc. All practical elements that are not taught.

I know a few people who have done postgraduate degrees in songwriting and all struggle to pay off their loans now. There is no songwriting job... There never was. Nobody can teach you how to be a better songwriter. The greatest teacher is life. If you want to write a great song - live. Because a course will not show you the way.

Is it irresponsible of Universities to have courses such as songwriting on their list of postgraduate degree courses? After all, nobody ever sat the likes of John Lennon or Paul McCartney down and told them the 'right' and 'wrong' ways of doing things. Whatever happened to spontaneity? Isn't this what changes the world? Nobody ever thought Nirvana would be the big band coming out of Seattle when they did. The general consensus was that Soundgarden would be the ones.

I feel as though the greats such as Jimi Hendrix, and David Bowie were great for their way of doing things. Not because they took some course or were told of how good they were or what potential they had.

I feel this way for the Ruskin school too. People often apply because it's Oxford University. Never realizing that the main purpose of any Art is to challenge the status quo and to change things or to show a new perspective. People apply for Oxford because it's Oxford. Kudos to feed one's ego.

The time spent worrying if you're so called 'good' enough or not could be put to use showing the world your gift and following your own natural path. People wonder how some people make it and some don't. Guess what - There is no formula. What works for one does not work for another.

What has happened now is that the words Oxford, Cambridge, and any other arts or drama school with the name Royal are sought after due to their names alone. You shouldn't want to get into these schools. You should want to succeed. Getting in does not guarantee success.


Yes it is a total waste of money I know a man who is 33 and very attractive, he did a masters in media he works 2 minimum wage jobs to survive. Truth be told I think strippers, escorts make the most money some of these girls are buying a new range rover at 23 it is shocking. While people who worked hard in life are driving used cars, renting a flat and saving every penny to pay for a mortgage/children.
Any of these people millionaires? Legends? Are they changing anything?
Yes
But if you are not going to excel - What is the point? As far as a postgraduate degree in any Arts subject - You could read books and watch youtube documentaries these days and get all the information you need. Contact famous artists and ask them questions. Be friends with people who manage museums and get in that way.

If I'm hiring for a job, the last thing I'm looking for is a postgraduate degree in any Art related subject. Artists are ever changing.

If you think people go to school NOT to become millionaires, you probably are very naive. Ever heard of Harvard Business School?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by goldengradesguy
Are all art related postgraduate degrees a waste of time and money?


No, they're not. Only most of them are.

The demand for this stuff is X. The supply is Y.

Right now, Y >>>> X

We don't need several tens of thousands of students a year graduating with an arts degree. Ever more emphasis is being placed on theoretical claptrap that you learn at universities, whereas employers are in response demanding more and more practical experience due to a short supply of it among young people. This is tbf broader than just arts degrees, though they're affected worse by it.
I disagree strongly. Being successful is being the best. The best get paid the most.
I would say it's better to have the millions rather than not. You could always set-up trust funds and help other students within your field for decades to come.
I understand where you're coming from but I believe that generally people can achieve all the success they wish. The only person holding anyone back is the person who stares back of them everyday in the mirror.
Of course I'm not talking about average jobs. For example, Steve Jobs created Apple from his parent's garage. He could have easily said "It's never going to work - What's the point."
That is my point. His own ability. He didn't wait for somebody to tell him his idea was good.
Reply 17
Original post by goldengradesguy
Of course I'm not talking about average jobs. For example, Steve Jobs created Apple from his parent's garage. He could have easily said "It's never going to work - What's the point."


How many Jobs or Bransons or whoever are there?

And they didn't go to a business school, or complete a STEM degree either.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Just as able but just not as dedicated or motivated or had the self-belief.
Original post by Doonesbury
How many Jobs or Bransons or whoever are there?

And they didn't go to a business school, or complete a STEM degree either.

Posted from TSR Mobile


Elon Musk is another one.

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