Can someone explain the motive for scottish independence? Watch

Anonymous #1
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So I'm from brighton but studying in Glasgow in September since I want to be closer to my dads family (Edinburgh), So I would refer myself being partly Scottish being raised by my dad etc.

Anyway, independence is a topic that comes up often in group chats etc, but without being rude I haven't come across anyone that supports independence with a decent argument that makes me reconsider my opinion?

My reasons why I'm against independence:

-UK has been successful for over 300 years, why should thatchers years and the current tory government challenge that? Obviously there's the arguement scotland votes more left than England? but 1955 it was majority tory vote? but that's only recently relative to the age of the union? so when people say get away from tory rule? I don't think that fair as things change (look at 2017 elections)

-Thinktank found that scottish economy grew by 0.6% in the last 12 months while RUK grew 1.7% (both very c**p, one clearly worse than the other)

-Scotland is going to find it tough to join the EU. Yes they have been in the EU before but that was part of the UK, its not the same economy or government, the EU commission has said it has to apply as a new state with all the other states wanting to join? It took croatia ten years? secondly I think the chances are France and Spain would Veto it given Catalonia and Brittany, it won't be in their interest to let a newly independent country join

-currency? what the f*** are we meant to use? Bank of England said no to scotland using the pound (Salmond is a cheeky boi) and so did george osbourne at the time (imagine this would stay the same). They can't join the euro right away so this is gonna a be huge economic instability?

-Businesses, on the note of currency, so investment in scotland would plummet, and business in scotland and england are most likely going to focus investment down south? and scotland is hardly gonna do an ireland and race to the bottom to get huge corporations to invest there because of scotlands due to their social policy (of which i agree with but question the funding)

-Lastly, I understand England isn't the best of friends since our population dwarfs scotland so have greater influence (perhaps not per capita thoughh?) but seriously, whats the difference to a working class Mancunian and a working class Glaswegian who both hate tories and vote left wing parties? your not alone, not everyone in england likes tory governements or brexit! (*hint* *hint*)

I understand theres some arguements, eg WMD (100% agree but saying glasgow is gonna be nuked is like saying I'm gonna win the lottery while simultaneously coming in to contact with ET and and clone of Steven Spielberg) and obviously scotland has a smaller voice and there needs to be a lot of progress on devolution but independence seems so radical and we do love you guys really? but I accept if you wanna leave then we should let you,

So can any scots challenge my point of view and make me have a tad of sympathy? cheers!
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TheRabbit
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(Original post by Anonymous)
So I'm from brighton but studying in Glasgow in September since I want to be closer to my dads family (Edinburgh), So I would refer myself being partly Scottish being raised by my dad etc...
I guess the independence movement would argue that its less an economic question and more a political question. Its about power to the people, and a right to self-determination of our future.

The question of independence is far from a new thing and I'm not sure its been an entirely happy union for 300 years. The SNP were founded before WW2 but I would imagine there were grumblings before then, and I guess going right back the Jacobite rebellions of the 1700s are not as simple as Highlanders rising up against England but did have a greater Scottish support relative to English. Our appetite for independence was supposed to decrease once we had our own parliament (now coming up for 19yrs old), however the relative success of it with dissatisfaction with Westminister politics over a prolonged period (which includes some decisions made by the new Labour governments of the late 90s and early 2000s and is not just anti-tory) has lead to the calls for true independence.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by TheRabbit)
I guess the independence movement would argue that its less an economic question and more a political question. Its about power to the people, and a right to self-determination of our future.

The question of independence is far from a new thing and I'm not sure its been an entirely happy union for 300 years. The SNP were founded before WW2 but I would imagine there were grumblings before then, and I guess going right back the Jacobite rebellions of the 1700s are not as simple as Highlanders rising up against England but did have a greater Scottish support relative to English. Our appetite for independence was supposed to decrease once we had our own parliament (now coming up for 19yrs old), however the relative success of it with dissatisfaction with Westminister politics over a prolonged period (which includes some decisions made by the new Labour governments of the late 90s and early 2000s and is not just anti-tory) has lead to the calls for true independence.
I appreciate your response! thank you!

what makes you think that Scotland as a whole feels Holyrood isn't that much of a success as one had imagined back in 1999?

Do you mind me asking if there were any major decisions by Labour and Conservative governments that weren't popular in scotland (post 1997?)

Just out of interest do you feel that perhaps an English Parliament (solving the west Lothian question) would perhaps benefit Scotland? given that Westminster wouldn't be the only place English people are represented and through this make Northern Ireland and the Welsh assembly's both parliaments and turning the UK in to a federal state rather than quasi federalist? So that Westminster is more of a representative of the kingdoms rather than constituencies, perhaps buffering English dominance in Westminster?
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Prefect1992
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Whiskey
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Justthis1
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What's always confused me about this is that if it is a political or ideological movement...why the drive to join the EU again afterwards
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NonIndigenous
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(Original post by Justthis1)
What's always confused me about this is that if it is a political or ideological movement...why the drive to join the EU again afterwards
Same reason why some people go out with their former partner's best friend straight after a break-up.

Because f** you that's why.

lol
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Anonymous #2
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Same as the ****ing morons who wanted Brexit.

TO TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY
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StriderHort
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As others have said, not everything is about money. A lot of people are simply flat out sick of being ruled by England using a set of values we don't share, with a government we increasingly see as hostile to Scotland and it's people (and damn near anyone else) and little chance of improvement...we've seen the current Tories go after the sick, the unemployed, civil servants and students, now the windrush lot...how long before they decide to make things worse for us Scots to satisfy their mob?

The analogy of the abusive relationship holds up depressingly well, we're told we're stupid, poor, we can't make it on our own, no one will want us. The important thing is get out, worries down the line are just that, down the line, but getting away from the abuser is the first step.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by StriderHort)
As others have said, not everything is about money. A lot of people are simply flat out sick of being ruled by England using a set of values we don't share, with a government we increasingly see as hostile to Scotland and it's people (and damn near anyone else) and little chance of improvement...we've seen the current Tories go after the sick, the unemployed, civil servants and students, now the windrush lot...how long before they decide to make things worse for us Scots to satisfy their mob?

The analogy of the abusive relationship holds up depressingly well, we're told we're stupid, poor, we can't make it on our own, no one will want us. The important thing is get out, worries down the line are just that, down the line, but getting away from the abuser is the first step.
first of all thank you for your response,

I can see your point, but the way you encompass all of England as dominating is just wrong, as I stated, many English people are very similar to a lot of scots (but not all) reason I say that is because conservatives are the second biggest party in scotland now (I personally find this a bit distressing).

I think that people saying your stupid and poor is pretty petty arguement, I mean scotland has the 3rd/4th highest GDP per capita out of every region in the UK, so no one thinks that those that do are clearly idiots and I apologise that you feel that you feel that way as that's not acceptable.

Do you perhaps feel that maybe a change in electoral systems would perhaps benefit you, so making the uk more representative? the SNP would loose a lot of seats as they benefit since they are geographical concentrated but it would mean that tories are far less dominant in the uk and more people would have a say eg. people like me who vote labour in the south east who share scotlands values? if you disagree thats fine, I'm just curious,

lastly, do you think your opinions would be the same if Jeremy Corbyn won in 2017, do you think then you'd have the apatite to leave? because there's no argument saying your values arent shown by parliament since JC stands for everything the tories arent?

cheers!
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RickHendricks
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(Original post by Anonymous)
So I'm from brighton but studying in Glasgow in September since I want to be closer to my dads family (Edinburgh), So I would refer myself being partly Scottish being raised by my dad etc.

Anyway, independence is a topic that comes up often in group chats etc, but without being rude I haven't come across anyone that supports independence with a decent argument that makes me reconsider my opinion?

My reasons why I'm against independence:

-UK has been successful for over 300 years, why should thatchers years and the current tory government challenge that? Obviously there's the arguement scotland votes more left than England? but 1955 it was majority tory vote? but that's only recently relative to the age of the union? so when people say get away from tory rule? I don't think that fair as things change (look at 2017 elections)

-Thinktank found that scottish economy grew by 0.6% in the last 12 months while RUK grew 1.7% (both very c**p, one clearly worse than the other)

-Scotland is going to find it tough to join the EU. Yes they have been in the EU before but that was part of the UK, its not the same economy or government, the EU commission has said it has to apply as a new state with all the other states wanting to join? It took croatia ten years? secondly I think the chances are France and Spain would Veto it given Catalonia and Brittany, it won't be in their interest to let a newly independent country join

-currency? what the f*** are we meant to use? Bank of England said no to scotland using the pound (Salmond is a cheeky boi) and so did george osbourne at the time (imagine this would stay the same). They can't join the euro right away so this is gonna a be huge economic instability?

-Businesses, on the note of currency, so investment in scotland would plummet, and business in scotland and england are most likely going to focus investment down south? and scotland is hardly gonna do an ireland and race to the bottom to get huge corporations to invest there because of scotlands due to their social policy (of which i agree with but question the funding)

-Lastly, I understand England isn't the best of friends since our population dwarfs scotland so have greater influence (perhaps not per capita thoughh?) but seriously, whats the difference to a working class Mancunian and a working class Glaswegian who both hate tories and vote left wing parties? your not alone, not everyone in england likes tory governements or brexit! (*hint* *hint*)

I understand theres some arguements, eg WMD (100% agree but saying glasgow is gonna be nuked is like saying I'm gonna win the lottery while simultaneously coming in to contact with ET and and clone of Steven Spielberg) and obviously scotland has a smaller voice and there needs to be a lot of progress on devolution but independence seems so radical and we do love you guys really? but I accept if you wanna leave then we should let you,

So can any scots challenge my point of view and make me have a tad of sympathy? cheers!
The independence vote gets a lot of support because SNP opposes Brexit, which a lot of Remainers used it to their advantage.
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