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Are fruit machines rigged? watch

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    Basically I'm really bored and just wanted to ask, are fruit
    machines rigged?

    Not like 18+ ones, what I mean is, the £5 jackpot ones in
    family arcades, like when you have to guess higher or
    lower and earn cash for each correct guess, are the
    numbers actually random or pre-determined? Also, when
    you land on that annoying mystery square, is that rigged
    to almost all of the time end your game? Since 9 times
    out of 10, the result is game over 😂😭

    I'm not addicted by the way as some people elsewhere
    have accused me of being... I only play them for a few
    minutes about once or twice and only if I'm on holiday. If
    was addicted, I'd be gambling away all of my money at
    the pub.
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    (Original post by beano150)
    Basically I'm really bored and just wanted to ask, are fruit
    machines rigged?

    Not like 18+ ones, what I mean is, the £5 jackpot ones in
    family arcades, like when you have to guess higher or
    lower and earn cash for each correct guess, are the
    numbers actually random or pre-determined? Also, when
    you land on that annoying mystery square, is that rigged
    to almost all of the time end your game? Since 9 times
    out of 10, the result is game over 😂😭

    I'm not addicted by the way as some people elsewhere
    have accused me of being... I only play them for a few
    minutes about once or twice and only if I'm on holiday. If
    was addicted, I'd be gambling away all of my money at
    the pub.
    Of course they are biased to pay out less than they take. Think about it: the machine must be paid for, staff costs, electricity, routine maintenance, takings regularly emptied, tax, business rates etc. - all must be covered. Only then can the owner make a profit.

    If the machine is not in continuous use, then the odds per play must be heavily biased in favour of the owner.
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    (Original post by uberteknik)
    Of course they are biased to pay out less than they take. Think about it: the machine must be paid for, staff costs, electricity, routine maintenance, takings regularly emptied, tax, business rates etc. - all must be covered. Only then can the owner make a profit.

    If the machine is not in continuous use, then the odds per play must be heavily biased in favour of the owner.
    True say, that's a fair point, even if it is annoying going lower than 11 to get a 12 and lose... 😂
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    (Original post by beano150)
    True say, that's a fair point, even if it is annoying going lower than 11 to get a 12 and lose... 😂
    Mmm if they were pre determined they'd be exploitable. Afaik they're based on true randomness and the odds are just in the machines favour...

    However I do think the machines are designed with features to make you think you're closer to winning than you actually are while you're operating it - which is psychological manipulation basically. Make it feel like a game of skill and make the player feel that they are unusually skilful while they are playing.

    i.e. If I was designing a fruit machine that required the player to get 5 higher/lower button presses correct to trigger a payout I'd try and make sure the first 3 always succeeded.

    I *think* the regulations look at the overall payout rate and not the detailed implementation of 'sophisticated' features like high/low minigames.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    Mmm if they were pre determined they'd be exploitable. Afaik they're based on true randomness and the odds are just in the machines favour...
    Pretty sure a lot of the time their results ARE predetermined, likely varying on how much money it's taking and folk certainly do exploit that, I've seen plenty of folk over the years chucked out on sight or told to stay away from certain machines because staff know they have the knack of it and I've seen enough of them myself just sit and watch a machine being played for a bit, suddenly declare 'Jackpot time' put a coin in and win it.

    At the end of the day nowhere is going to be keen to install and pay for a machine that can lose them money.
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    (Original post by beano150)
    True say, that's a fair point, even if it is annoying going lower than 11 to get a 12 and lose... 😂
    As joinedup said, the play will be random, but the number of winning combinations will be set such that the machine pays for itself and returns a profit in the long term.

    Rather like roulette where all 37 numbers are true random and number 0 is reserved for the house only and is there in every game. Meaning statistically, the house wins the total stake in play in one game out of 37 irrespective of how much was bet.
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    (Original post by uberteknik)
    As joinedup said, the play will be random, but the number of winning combinations will be set such that the machine pays for itself and returns a profit in the long term.

    Rather like roulette where all 37 numbers are true random and number 0 is reserved for the house only and is there in every game. Meaning statistically, the house wins the total stake in play in one game out of 37 irrespective of how much was bet.
    See also
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_m...out_percentage

    ---
    There are 13 possible payouts ranging from 1:1 to 2,400:1. The 1:1 payout comes every 8 plays. The 5:1 payout comes every 33 plays, whereas the 2:1 payout comes every 600 plays. Most players assume the likelihood increases proportionate to the payout. The one midsize payout that is designed to give the player a thrill is the 80:1 payout. It is programmed to occur an average of once every 219 plays. The 80:1 payout is high enough to create excitement, but not high enough that it makes it likely that the player will take his winnings and abandon the game. More than likely the player began the game with at least 80 times his bet (for instance there are 80 quarters in $20). In contrast the 150:1 payout occurs only on average of once every 6,241 plays. The highest payout of 2,400:1 occurs only on average of once every 643=262,144 plays since the machine has 64 virtual stops. The player who continues to feed the machine is likely to have several midsize payouts, but unlikely to have a large payout. He quits after he is bored or has exhausted his bankroll.
    ---

    Obviously play these things if you want but be aware that a lot of effort and sneakyness has gone into keeping you stood there pumping your money into the machine.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    Mmm if they were pre determined they'd be exploitable. Afaik they're based on true randomness and the odds are just in the machines favour...

    However I do think the machines are designed with features to make you think you're closer to winning than you actually are while you're operating it - which is psychological manipulation basically. Make it feel like a game of skill and make the player feel that they are unusually skilful while they are playing.

    i.e. If I was designing a fruit machine that required the player to get 5 higher/lower button presses correct to trigger a payout I'd try and make sure the first 3 always succeeded.

    I *think* the regulations look at the overall payout rate and not the detailed implementation of 'sophisticated' features like high/low minigames.
    Sometimes, some machines do that first 3 succeeded thing you mentioned. One machine which I played some time ago (can't remember the name of the machine, it was about two years ago or something) it had red numbers which were guaranteed wins. They always showed as red for the first two or three guesses, and then it was just down to pure guessing.
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    (Original post by StriderHort)
    Pretty sure a lot of the time their results ARE predetermined, likely varying on how much money it's taking and folk certainly do exploit that, I've seen plenty of folk over the years chucked out on sight or told to stay away from certain machines because staff know they have the knack of it and I've seen enough of them myself just sit and watch a machine being played for a bit, suddenly declare 'Jackpot time' put a coin in and win it.

    At the end of the day nowhere is going to be keen to install and pay for a machine that can lose them money.
    Chucked out because they've got the knack of playing the game? Bit harsh...
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    (Original post by beano150)
    Sometimes, some machines do that first 3 succeeded thing you mentioned. One machine which I played some time ago (can't remember the name of the machine, it was about two years ago or something) it had red numbers which were guaranteed wins. They always showed as red for the first two or three guesses, and then it was just down to pure guessing.
    When I do symbol matching scratchcards (don't buy them myself btw - sister gives them as presents) I find I very often get a couple of jackpot symbols on the left when I start scratching and then it's just trash symbols... I don't think it's chance, I think the company is trying to engineer a 'near miss' to psychologically manipulate vulnerable players.

    what you'd naively expect is that the jackpot symbols would be printed on the cards infrequently but randomly - but of course the lottery company could engineer it so that every card had an apparent near miss on one of the high value prizes.

    there's published research e.g.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10...899-016-9662-2

    needless to say I believe the fruit machine companies are at it as well and will engineer lots of 'near misses' into the games to make them seem more compelling to players.
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    (Original post by beano150)
    Chucked out because they've got the knack of playing the game? Bit harsh...
    Pretty common for most gambling I think, past a point of winning the house will stop you or ask you to leave, less politely in the case of pool halls, arcades and pubs. I've seen that kind of thing cause resentment/trouble in pubs before where folk are playing a machine and everyone KNOWS the smug bugger in the corner is just picking his time to go up and empty it, do it more than once or twice and people with a drink might take it a bit personal (esp if it's a stranger).
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    The house always wins. They wouldn’t exist if they didn’t make a profit.
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    (Original post by beano150)
    Basically I'm really bored and just wanted to ask, are fruit
    machines rigged?
    (Original post by Joinedup)
    Afaik they're based on true randomness and the odds are just in the machines favour...
    (Original post by StriderHort)
    Pretty sure a lot of the time their results ARE predetermined,
    (Original post by uberteknik)
    As joinedup said, the play will be random, but the number of winning combinations will be set such that the machine pays for itself and returns a profit in the long term.
    The only type of machines where the outcome is truly predetermined are what are called B3A machines which can only be found in private members' clubs, typically working mens' clubs. They look like fruit machines but the way they work is that each play is the equivalent of a virtual scratchcard and in the same way that it is predetermined before you buy a National Lottery scratchcard whether it is a winner or not, the same is true of these machines.

    http://www.dransfields.com/products/...s/b3a-machines

    The sort of machines in seaside arcades are Class D machines. They can be truly ransom, depending for the house "edge" or profit on the relative number of winning and losing combinations. If the machine is random, the plate or notice will say so. Most machines however are compensated machines where the win percentage is adjusted as a result of previous payouts.

    http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...youts-RTP.aspx

    All these machines can have skill-based features.

    However in a sense all modern slot type machines are rigged because the basic result of the game (subject to any skill-based elements) is determined by an electronic random number generator and not by any of the displayed features of the game. You may be waiting to see whether the reels stop showing three 3 bars, but the machine knows the outcome a tiny fraction of a second after you press to play.

    If you want to play machines where what you see is what you get, then you need to play machines from the 1960s, 70s or 80s. Before the 1960s, all British machines had to be games of skill or prize free (these are generally the ball bearing machines called Allwins). From the late 80s, machines start to be controlled by a computer
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    Well I've had a quick read on the gambling commission's website and it's forbidden to present a losses as 'near misses' at an artificially high frequency (at least for the categories of machine I looked at e.g. http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...ategory-B2.pdf sec 5.2)

    I think that probably means the fruit machines used to do it on purpose and it's been clamped down upon - but if there's any wiggle room or loopholes about presenting the user with fake near-misses I'd expect the machine designers to be on it - perhaps in the form of minigames or 'skill checks' after a win with the supposed possibility of increasing the payout value.

    TBH it looks like a virtually impossible task for the legislation to keep up with the novel features machine designers could come up with... Apart from an outright ban the simplest thing would be to say WYSIWYG machines (of the type nulli described above) only... but of course the government likes the taxes from the gambling industries and I guess if the microprocessor type machines are better at pumping money out of punters than the oldschool machines they're not too keen to stifle the cash pumping.
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    yeah so clearly
 
 
 
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