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Unconditional offer, then criminal record...help!?
Hey people,
Basically i applied this year for uni, and received an unconditional offer to study for my chosen course. I accepted this offer and am fully intending to start studying at uni in september 2008.
at the time of applying, i had no criminal convictions and therefore didn't tick the box on the ucas form asking me if i had any.
recently i was arrested for shoplifting. i'm not proud of this and the value of goods was low. i may be given a warning closer to my court date and get away without a criminal record, however i may go to court and be convicted, getting a criminal record. i'm not here to debate why i shoplifted.
now obviously everyone here is going to stress; "tell the uni ASAP if you get convicted because not telling is the same as lying". Am i right here?
Also, what do you think the uni will say/ do if i do get convicted and i chose to tell them?
What would they do if i was convicted and didn't chose to tell them? maybe they'd find out.
thanks all!!
my course is not something like law or teaching where there are close backgroud checks... but still................ bit worried as going to uni is everything for me!
Basically i applied this year for uni, and received an unconditional offer to study for my chosen course. I accepted this offer and am fully intending to start studying at uni in september 2008.
at the time of applying, i had no criminal convictions and therefore didn't tick the box on the ucas form asking me if i had any.
recently i was arrested for shoplifting. i'm not proud of this and the value of goods was low. i may be given a warning closer to my court date and get away without a criminal record, however i may go to court and be convicted, getting a criminal record. i'm not here to debate why i shoplifted.
now obviously everyone here is going to stress; "tell the uni ASAP if you get convicted because not telling is the same as lying". Am i right here?
Also, what do you think the uni will say/ do if i do get convicted and i chose to tell them?
What would they do if i was convicted and didn't chose to tell them? maybe they'd find out.
thanks all!!
my course is not something like law or teaching where there are close backgroud checks... but still................ bit worried as going to uni is everything for me!
Scroll to see replies
aced
Also, what do you think the uni will say/ do if i do get convicted and i chose to tell them?
I imagine they'll reconsider your application, telling them would go in your favour, however it depends on their views on the nature of the crime.
aced
What would they do if i was convicted and didn't chose to tell them? maybe they'd find out.
It's becomming increasingly easy for business to check up on your criminal convictions, suggesting the same may apply to universities.
Okay, I'm not going to judge you (cos i nicked stupid things as a teenager) but i think you must make it clear, for the reason that ORIGINALLY they asked you, so it must matter to them a bit. also there must be a declaration that you had to sign?
If the offer is unconditional, then they obviously want you right? And shoplifting is (with respect) a pretty dumb and petty crime. If i'm going to be honest, i know that lots of people nicked things in their teenage years, and i don't think that shoplifting constitues a serious crime. i know people who have been to uni with drink driving convictions or cautions. For the purposes of uni, i don't think petty theft will interest them that much- as long as you own up to it before and relay your concerns. i think they ask because "criminal conviction" could be anything from driving over the limit, to raping or murdering somebody! so they do have to ask, and i wouldnt let it scare you too much. Somebody i know has LOADS of criminal convictions (fighting, drink driving,GBH) and he has no problems finding jobs, so i'm sure you'll be fine with shoplifting at uni!( well not "shoplifting at uni" you know what i mean!
) But telling them, will prevent them from thinking you are dishonest, right?
As my mum would say " i'd rather a thief than a liar..." (poor taste?) But anyway, telling them proves you are honest and you made a mistake.
i don't know how many years it will be until your conviction is spent, but maybe it will be after your uni so you wont have to worry about it again, just own up, and at least whatever their answer, you wont have the worry of them discovering you. x
If the offer is unconditional, then they obviously want you right? And shoplifting is (with respect) a pretty dumb and petty crime. If i'm going to be honest, i know that lots of people nicked things in their teenage years, and i don't think that shoplifting constitues a serious crime. i know people who have been to uni with drink driving convictions or cautions. For the purposes of uni, i don't think petty theft will interest them that much- as long as you own up to it before and relay your concerns. i think they ask because "criminal conviction" could be anything from driving over the limit, to raping or murdering somebody! so they do have to ask, and i wouldnt let it scare you too much. Somebody i know has LOADS of criminal convictions (fighting, drink driving,GBH) and he has no problems finding jobs, so i'm sure you'll be fine with shoplifting at uni!( well not "shoplifting at uni" you know what i mean!
) But telling them, will prevent them from thinking you are dishonest, right?As my mum would say " i'd rather a thief than a liar..." (poor taste?) But anyway, telling them proves you are honest and you made a mistake.
i don't know how many years it will be until your conviction is spent, but maybe it will be after your uni so you wont have to worry about it again, just own up, and at least whatever their answer, you wont have the worry of them discovering you. x
Personally I don't think you should mention it. Certainly not until you're sure you will get a criminal record. I don't really see it as deception - it's more a case of avoiding reactionary judgements from admissions tutors. It would not be fair for you to lose your place for such a petty crime, but that would quite possibly happen if you let them know now. However once you're in and have started, it is highly unlikely you would be kicked out for it if they discover the truth - especially since when you said you had no convictions it was true. A final point - if they run a criminal records check on you, the record will probably not have been updated by the time they look...
Tell them. the chances are the universiyt will get you to sign a contract to the effect that "everything in my file is true to the best of my knowledge and i will tell you of any changes" if you where to sign this and not tell them, they might find out during random/ pre-clinical checks (depending on your course) and then you face being removed from the course. the uni can remove you at any time for any reason, so this is soething you should make known now, before you start.
you are allowed to discuss this anaonamously and confidentially with the university and it's admission tutor. universities rarely bar someone from a course because of a criminal record unless its relelvent i.e. arrested for attacking someone trying to get onto a course with vulnerable people. they may ask for you name to look into the situation, but becuase your coming forward now, i think can only count as a good thing.
if you want any more advice, name the course your on, and then i'll give you a realistic idea of what might happen. check the uni's prospectus, there will be a section covering CRB checks and what to do if you have a record.
Dom
you are allowed to discuss this anaonamously and confidentially with the university and it's admission tutor. universities rarely bar someone from a course because of a criminal record unless its relelvent i.e. arrested for attacking someone trying to get onto a course with vulnerable people. they may ask for you name to look into the situation, but becuase your coming forward now, i think can only count as a good thing.
if you want any more advice, name the course your on, and then i'll give you a realistic idea of what might happen. check the uni's prospectus, there will be a section covering CRB checks and what to do if you have a record.
Dom
There is something called the rehabillitation of offenders act which enables people like you to tick the 'no' box even when you should be saying yes. It's supposed to help offenders reintegrate and avoid stigma when applying for jobs etc. You won't have to declare this unless you are in a position where they need a crb check. Even if you do not end up with a full criminal record a caution will still show up on this kind of check (enhanced disclosure) for the rest of your life. Your crime has no bearing on your suitability to do your course therefore you do not need to declare it. Furthermore they cannot find out without you consenting to a background check. They should explain this to you when you answer your bail - if not make sure you ask! xx
aced
Hey people,
Basically i applied this year for uni, and received an unconditional offer to study for my chosen course. I accepted this offer and am fully intending to start studying at uni in september 2008.
at the time of applying, i had no criminal convictions and therefore didn't tick the box on the ucas form asking me if i had any.
recently i was arrested for shoplifting. i'm not proud of this and the value of goods was low. i may be given a warning closer to my court date and get away without a criminal record, however i may go to court and be convicted, getting a criminal record. i'm not here to debate why i shoplifted.
now obviously everyone here is going to stress; "tell the uni ASAP if you get convicted because not telling is the same as lying". Am i right here?
Also, what do you think the uni will say/ do if i do get convicted and i chose to tell them?
What would they do if i was convicted and didn't chose to tell them? maybe they'd find out.
thanks all!!
my course is not something like law or teaching where there are close backgroud checks... but still................ bit worried as going to uni is everything for me!
Basically i applied this year for uni, and received an unconditional offer to study for my chosen course. I accepted this offer and am fully intending to start studying at uni in september 2008.
at the time of applying, i had no criminal convictions and therefore didn't tick the box on the ucas form asking me if i had any.
recently i was arrested for shoplifting. i'm not proud of this and the value of goods was low. i may be given a warning closer to my court date and get away without a criminal record, however i may go to court and be convicted, getting a criminal record. i'm not here to debate why i shoplifted.
now obviously everyone here is going to stress; "tell the uni ASAP if you get convicted because not telling is the same as lying". Am i right here?
Also, what do you think the uni will say/ do if i do get convicted and i chose to tell them?
What would they do if i was convicted and didn't chose to tell them? maybe they'd find out.
thanks all!!
my course is not something like law or teaching where there are close backgroud checks... but still................ bit worried as going to uni is everything for me!
Listen mate, better not tell them. You told them the truth at the time you sent you UCAS application. You have no obligation to do so at any time afterwards. The declaration is a contract that does not have any clauses within it that specifies you must do so, nor is it even implied. So even if they did find out, and this would only happen if someone who knew this fact personally told them out of spite, they can't punish you for lying on the declaration, as you didn't. That isn't just a technicality, it is the state of affairs known to you, the contractee, at the time of acceptance of the contract- the event after that time is irrelevant. I'm studying law at the mo, i'm not an expert (yet!), but this is one of the first things we are taught.
Don't listen to the high-horse moralisers. Be realistic. Don't be naive.
P.s. are you sure you have a record yet anyway? If its going to court, then surely you have not been convicted of anything hitherto. Why didn't you just get given the on the spot fine that is given out these days for such a minor mis-demeanor? Are you a repeat offender...just curious.
I totally agree with Stealth-Mode - at the time you filled the form out, you told the truth. Definitely don't let them know unless you get convicted.
Furthermore, assuming you are quite young, it is highly unlikely this thing will go to court (if this is first offence). It is more likely that you would get, if anything, what's known as a fiscal fine (in scotland), which would mean you get no record. The fact that you are going to uni is in your favour as well. Assuming again that you are young and don't work full time, you will qualify for legal aid. Thus, you can get a lawyer for free, and perhaps get him to write a letter to the english equivalent of the 'procurator fiscal' (this in scotland is the local public prosecutor) outlining that you are an ambitious young man, about to head off to uni etc.
I have various friends at uni who have had run-ins with the law for more serious things and have been let off.
Furthermore, assuming you are quite young, it is highly unlikely this thing will go to court (if this is first offence). It is more likely that you would get, if anything, what's known as a fiscal fine (in scotland), which would mean you get no record. The fact that you are going to uni is in your favour as well. Assuming again that you are young and don't work full time, you will qualify for legal aid. Thus, you can get a lawyer for free, and perhaps get him to write a letter to the english equivalent of the 'procurator fiscal' (this in scotland is the local public prosecutor) outlining that you are an ambitious young man, about to head off to uni etc.
I have various friends at uni who have had run-ins with the law for more serious things and have been let off.
Hey people,
thanks loads. you've all been really helpful and given me lots of different perspectives- just why i posted the question in the first place. i thought the general reaction would be "what a tit for shoplifting" so i really appreciate that people are helping.
stealth-mode- i'm not sure why i didn't get a fine just there and then. my "accomplice" who was arrested at the same time (not sure if this makes a difference to my case) says he overheard the officers saying "shall we let them off with a caution or prosecute?" but obviously they didn't go for the caution. this is my first case with the police. i am studying business studies. i have already paid the £70 fine to product recovery legal company or whatever it is that represents the company i stole from.
Rob- i am in scotland at the moment. I have been to see the duty solicitor and he says he thinks the case won't go to court and that i'll have a fine to pay. that's what i want but i'm worried it will go to court (where i will almost certainly be convicted- i don't deny stealing).
cheers!
so basically i'm waiting for a letter from the court saying you dont have to come to court if you pay a fine. i really hope it comes.
thanks loads. you've all been really helpful and given me lots of different perspectives- just why i posted the question in the first place. i thought the general reaction would be "what a tit for shoplifting" so i really appreciate that people are helping.
stealth-mode- i'm not sure why i didn't get a fine just there and then. my "accomplice" who was arrested at the same time (not sure if this makes a difference to my case) says he overheard the officers saying "shall we let them off with a caution or prosecute?" but obviously they didn't go for the caution. this is my first case with the police. i am studying business studies. i have already paid the £70 fine to product recovery legal company or whatever it is that represents the company i stole from.
Rob- i am in scotland at the moment. I have been to see the duty solicitor and he says he thinks the case won't go to court and that i'll have a fine to pay. that's what i want but i'm worried it will go to court (where i will almost certainly be convicted- i don't deny stealing).
cheers!
so basically i'm waiting for a letter from the court saying you dont have to come to court if you pay a fine. i really hope it comes.
Dude do not say it to the university as i dont think they will run a record check on you unless you say so.
They will know if yo uget arrested again and are studying at a certain uni.I am in notts so if i steal and get nicked the uni will know coz the police will tell them.
Besides you dont know if your even gonna have a record.
Sometimes lying is a good thing.best of luck!
They will know if yo uget arrested again and are studying at a certain uni.I am in notts so if i steal and get nicked the uni will know coz the police will tell them.
Besides you dont know if your even gonna have a record.
Sometimes lying is a good thing.best of luck!
aced
that's what i want but i'm worried it will go to court (where i will almost certainly be convicted- i don't deny stealing).
To be honest, you're not denying it, so that will go in your favour. If there's a choice between who they take to court, they'd more likely go for the person lying out of their backside about it and still pleading innocent despite CCTV evidence etc. Stealing is bad, m'kay, but you admitted it from the off and it looks like you've learnt your lesson so I hope they agree that a fine would be sufficient.
Anyhow, read mousey's posts - you do not have to disclose it anyhow
.
Unreal
What you imagine may well differ from the reality, especially considering your evident lack of knowledge on the matter. The fact is, your advice may pertain to the real, or it may simply be resigned to the realms of the unreal. Given your name, I know which I imagine to be the more probable...
To be honest, I wouldn't tell them. I don't know much about these things, but why on earth would a university be bothered to check up on every single student who HADN'T originally checked the "criminal convictions" box on their form? I just don't really see the uni ever finding out? But obviously it's up to you.
xx
xx
They were asking you at the time.
I had no premium bonds when I applied, I didn't ring up them to tell them I'd bought some when I did.
I had no premium bonds when I applied, I didn't ring up them to tell them I'd bought some when I did.
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