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Alfie Evans

Please tell me I am not the only one who agress with the decision of the court and the doctors?
It has been stated multiple times that the boy cannot be cured, has a degenerative disease and will only get worse.

I don't know where people are getting their information from but they also stated multiple times that they took into consideration the fact that he might breathe on his own. So no... It wasn't a shock for the doctors.

No one is going to let him starve to death either. I don't know why he wasn't given water for hours, however it was later stated by the hospital that they will continue to care for the boy in all ways possible (other than putting him on life support again).

Why do people think it's ok and humane to prolong terminally ill child's life just for the sake of him being alive?
Why do people think it is ok to ship him to another country so he can be connected to tubes for the rest of his life?

As much as I feel sorry for the parents, the boy is not going to get better, and involving most of Europe in this case making the hospital look like they're killing people is ridiculous, selfish and not right.
(edited 5 years ago)

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Reply 1
No, I have been arguing for weeks that the courts have - very sadly - got this right.
Reply 2
I think most people think this to be honest, but they are the silent majority. It's a devastating situation that I hope never to be in myself nor any of my loved ones. I completely understand the emotion and upset and anger of those who don't agree, obviously in particular the family, but the poor child needs to find peace and I think continuing "treatment" is only continuing discomfort and possibly pain.

The protesters outside the hospital trying to storm in, calling the doctors and judges murderers are awful. Risk to other patients and waste of police resources.

A lot of people aren't very well educated and don't have even a basic understanding of biology. I think about half of his brain is degraded and flooded with water... there is no treatment for that.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 3
Original post by Nessie162
Please tell me I am not the only one who agress with the decision of the court and the doctors?
It has been stated multiple times that the boy cannot be cured, has a degenerative disease and will only get worse.

I don't know where people are getting their information from but they also stated multiple times that they took into consideration the fact that he might breathe on his own. So no... It wasn't a shock for the doctors.

No one is going to let him starve to death either. I don't know why he wasn't given water for hours, however it was later stated by the hospital that they will continue to care for the boy in all ways possible (other than putting him on life support again).

Why do people think it's ok and humane to prolong terminally ill child's life just for the sake of him being alive?
Why do people think it is ok to ship him to another country so he can be connected to tubes for the rest of his life?

As much as I feel sorry for the parents, the boy is not going to get better, and involving most of Europe in this case making the hospital look like they're killing people is ridiculous, selfish and not right.


i agree with you
Reply 4
Original post by Nessie162
Please tell me I am not the only one who agress with the decision of the court and the doctors?
It has been stated multiple times that the boy cannot be cured, has a degenerative disease and will only get worse.

I don't know where people are getting their information from but they also stated multiple times that they took into consideration the fact that he might breathe on his own. So no... It wasn't a shock for the doctors.

No one is going to let him starve to death either. I don't know why he wasn't given water for hours, however it was later stated by the hospital that they will continue to care for the boy in all ways possible (other than putting him on life support again).

Why do people think it's ok and humane to prolong terminally ill child's life just for the sake of him being alive?
Why do people think it is ok to ship him to another country so he can be connected to tubes for the rest of his life?

As much as I feel sorry for the parents, the boy is not going to get better, and involving most of Europe, in this case, making the hospital look like they're killing people is ridiculous, selfish and not right.


The issues are that yes, the baby has a terminal illness and however, even if he will die. the court should not be allowed to cut off options that could help the child.

even if he dies in Italy or elsewhere, his parents will know they did everything for him; and that is the only thing you can do in a case like this.
Reply 5
Original post by omichael
The issues are that yes, the baby has a terminal illness and however, even if he will die. the court should not be allowed to cut off options that could help the child.


The court have done nothing of the sort. The doctors treating Alfie have reached a consensus that prolonged life support is not in the child's best interest. All the court has done is ruled that the doctors know a teensy bit more about medical care than the child's parents do, and therefore their decision is the most sensible course of action to take.

Original post by omichael
even if he dies in Italy or elsewhere, his parents will know they did everything for him; and that is the only thing you can do in a case like this.


If anything, the parents have made his sadly short life worse. They have been deliberately stirring up controversy, intimidating medical staff, and encouraging the mob behaviour which has caused the hospital staff a lot of grief. And of course, they have gone through this prolonged court case, throwing in meritless appeals and wasting everyone's time. Rather than take care of their infant during the very limited amount of time he has, they've opted instead to kick up the biggest ****storm they can muster.

I have every sympathy for Alfie but none whatsoever for his parents. Their actions have caused a lot of unnecessary suffering.
Reply 6
It's the old case of the algebra of necessity as Terry Pratchett called it in his books.

It would have been best for the parents to let the child go when it first became clear he was essentially a lost cause, grieve, and then move on with their life, perhaps have another child, and love them and raise them as a happy family. Sad as it may be, people lose children, have miscarriages and still births on a daily basis, and the world keeps on turning.

By clinging on though, not only have they denied their child a peaceful life and death, but they're steadily denying both themselves, from what I gather a happy healthy couple, and any future children they may have a chance at a happy life.
As much as it kills me to say this but I think it's time tbh. That little boy will carry on suffering if nothing is done about it. No child should be in his situation, he should be learning how to talk, being able to walk and just be able to smile and laugh. His parents need to do the right thing, but it's up to them to decide in the end.
Original post by Nessie162
Please tell me I am not the only one who agress with the decision of the court and the doctors?
It has been stated multiple times that the boy cannot be cured, has a degenerative disease and will only get worse.

I don't know where people are getting their information from but they also stated multiple times that they took into consideration the fact that he might breathe on his own. So no... It wasn't a shock for the doctors.

No one is going to let him starve to death either. I don't know why he wasn't given water for hours, however it was later stated by the hospital that they will continue to care for the boy in all ways possible (other than putting him on life support again).

Why do people think it's ok and humane to prolong terminally ill child's life just for the sake of him being alive?
Why do people think it is ok to ship him to another country so he can be connected to tubes for the rest of his life?

As much as I feel sorry for the parents, the boy is not going to get better, and involving most of Europe in this case making the hospital look like they're killing people is ridiculous, selfish and not right.


as much as i believe life is sacred, it may not be nice to prolong the suffering of this poor boy :frown:
Original post by Nessie162
Please tell me I am not the only one who agress with the decision of the court and the doctors?
It has been stated multiple times that the boy cannot be cured, has a degenerative disease and will only get worse.

I don't know where people are getting their information from but they also stated multiple times that they took into consideration the fact that he might breathe on his own. So no... It wasn't a shock for the doctors.

No one is going to let him starve to death either. I don't know why he wasn't given water for hours, however it was later stated by the hospital that they will continue to care for the boy in all ways possible (other than putting him on life support again).

Why do people think it's ok and humane to prolong terminally ill child's life just for the sake of him being alive?
Why do people think it is ok to ship him to another country so he can be connected to tubes for the rest of his life?

As much as I feel sorry for the parents, the boy is not going to get better, and involving most of Europe in this case making the hospital look like they're killing people is ridiculous, selfish and not right.


Nope plenty of people feel the court has it right and although its very sad, then he should be allowed to pass on in dignity and without further trauma. People are getting caught up in the emotion without bothering to see what the real issues are. The child is heavily brain damaged and has no future.


There are people on this thread banging on about the sanctity of life at any cost.

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5324500&posted=1&page=5&p=77287168#post77287168
I hate to be *that* guy, but the amount of money sunk into this is absolutely staggering. The costs of prolonging Alfie's suffering (around £2,000 per day for an ITU bed), the legal costs, the police costs for controlling the thugs outside the hospital... sick children die sometimes, and there are some cases where more money could have helped. Alfie's case was not one of them.

Alfie's parents must be going through hell, but its hard to feel too much sympathy for people who a) actively and deliberately encourage the actions of their mob and b) are forcing a poor kid to keep suffering for months on end when much of his brain simply no longer exists and there is no chance of him ever getting better.
I do feel sorry that the family have to go through this, however if he won’t get better then, unfortunately, this is probably the best option. It’s better than letting him suffer, living in a hospital for potentially years until he dies.
Original post by omichael
The issues are that yes, the baby has a terminal illness and however, even if he will die. the court should not be allowed to cut off options that could help the child.


I don't think the court has done that. On one side you have the medical profession and a body of evidence. On the other side you have the Pope, faith, the parents and a very emotionally charged campaign group. I am not saying the medical profession will necessarily make the right call but who can predict the future? I feel very sorry for the parents and in particular the judge who has had to make the call, but if two parties can not determine the best interests of this child, someone has to.
Reply 13
Original post by omichael
The issues are that yes, the baby has a terminal illness and however, even if he will die. the court should not be allowed to cut off options that could help the child.

even if he dies in Italy or elsewhere, his parents will know they did everything for him; and that is the only thing you can do in a case like this.


The thing is, the treatment he receives doesn't cure/treats/prevents/stops the disease. It just keeps him alive. It doesn't help him in any major way. It is not some miracle cure drug that is being stopped, it is basic life support.
Original post by Nessie162
Please tell me I am not the only one who agress with the decision of the court and the doctors?
It has been stated multiple times that the boy cannot be cured, has a degenerative disease and will only get worse.

I don't know where people are getting their information from but they also stated multiple times that they took into consideration the fact that he might breathe on his own. So no... It wasn't a shock for the doctors.

No one is going to let him starve to death either. I don't know why he wasn't given water for hours, however it was later stated by the hospital that they will continue to care for the boy in all ways possible (other than putting him on life support again).

Why do people think it's ok and humane to prolong terminally ill child's life just for the sake of him being alive?
Why do people think it is ok to ship him to another country so he can be connected to tubes for the rest of his life?

As much as I feel sorry for the parents, the boy is not going to get better, and involving most of Europe in this case making the hospital look like they're killing people is ridiculous, selfish and not right.

That **** father is loving it, swanning about in sunnies like some Hollywood celebrity.

They are just milking it for publicity. Dr know their job.
Original post by ByEeek
I don't think the court has done that. On one side you have the medical profession and a body of evidence. On the other side you have the Pope, faith, the parents and a very emotionally charged campaign group. I am not saying the medical profession will necessarily make the right call but who can predict the future? I feel very sorry for the parents and in particular the judge who has had to make the call, but if two parties can not determine the best interests of this child, someone has to.


No... you don't get it, the issue is that the court has said that you can't try. that's the main issue here. its that the parents are not able to decide the future of their child. the court should only intervene, when the child is being harmed, however, they are basically telling them that you can only wait for him to die.

they should be allowed to take treatment from any hospital that is providing it. The hospital doesn't have the right to just tell them there nothing we can do so, give up.

Basically, the final decision should be with the family, not the state.
Reply 16
Original post by omichael
No... you don't get it, the issue is that the court has said that you can't try. that's the main issue here. its that the parents are not able to decide the future of their child. the court should only intervene, when the child is being harmed, however, they are basically telling them that you can only wait for him to die.
they should be allowed to take treatment from any hospital that is providing it. The hospital doesn't have the right to just tell them there nothing we can do so, give up.

Basically, the final decision should be with the family, not the state.

I read the entire court statement this afternoon. The Italian doctors said there is no "treatment" they can provide, they will only plug him back again and do the same thing they're already doing here. The same goes for the hospital in Munich. Everyone other than the parents are on the same page and know that there is absolutely nothing they can do to improve the boys condition. However the father on numerous occasions stated that he still hopes Alfie will get better. Which he won't.

The reason the court didn't allow the transfer was because of the constant seizures the boy is having when moved or touched. So not only the journey could damage his brain even further, but he could also die.
Then there's also the issue with the doctor that said he had experience with transporting children like this when in reality he never transported a dying child before.

Also because the boy can't express any feelings they are not sure if he feels any pain and they can't just assume that he doesn't.
If he does the constant seizures must be a nightmare and no child deserves to be in pain just because their parents can't let go.
The whole thing is just awful. Just let him die in peace. If alfie does end up somehow surviving, he's not going to have much of a life.
There are so many morons out there led by false emotion. The court didn't do anything. The government didn't do anything. Yet both are blamed. The latter are wholly not involved and the former simply followed law. They rightfully upheld the doctors' decisions, as is law.

And then these selfish pricks try to storm a children's hospital just to fuel their need to be such good people fighting such a sheer injustice. Lying about the facts, e.g. that the Vatican hospital has a miracle cure. That "why not give him a last attempt". No. They will put a tube directly in his lung by cutting a hole in his neck. That's all. There is no cure.

The boy is gone. Yes it's awful but it is what it is. Just because the parents can't let go, doesn't mean they can decide what happens with the poor boy. And all these strangers should just stfu.
Original post by 999tigger



There are people on this thread banging on about the sanctity of life at any cost.

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5324500&posted=1&page=5&p=77287168#post77287168


Morons.

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