Bongo Bongo
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What do you guys think of paganism?

I think I've just realised that gods exist...
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hussamhussam
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#2
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The greatest evil that can never be forgiven.

"Who is more foolish than he who prays to other beings than Allah, to beings who are ever impotent to answer his prayer?" al-Qur'aan 46:5
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the bear
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(Original post by hussamhussam)
The greatest evil that can never be forgiven.

"Who is more foolish than he who prays to other beings than Allah, to beings who are ever impotent to answer his prayer?" al-Qur'aan 46:5
that's kinda judgmental tho' ?

in this day and age we should respect the religious choices of other people ?
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by the bear)
that's kinda judgmental tho' ?

in this day and age we should respect the religious choices of other people ?
This is respecting people's choices:

''Say: O you who disbelieve!
I worship not that which you worship,
Nor will you worship that which I worship,
Nor will I worship those whom you have worshipped,
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.'' [Surat Al-Kafirun]

But the above doesn't change the implication under the eyes of God i.e. believe what you want to believe but if you reject the truth (about God and His Oneness) and worship false deities then you are foolish
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the bear
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
This is respecting people's choices:

''Say: O you who disbelieve!
I worship not that which you worship,
Nor will you worship that which I worship,
Nor will I worship those whom you have worshipped,
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.'' [Surat Al-Kafirun]

But the above doesn't change the implication under the eyes of God i.e. believe what you want to believe but if you reject the truth (about God and His Oneness) and worship false deities then you are foolish
i am not a pagan. i worship Jesus the Risen Lord, the Son of God.
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by the bear)
i am not a pagan. i worship Jesus the Risen Lord, the Son of God.
That is polytheism (paganism) though - he is a man, messenger and a servant of God who was later deified by people, so worship the One he worshipped and do not associate parts or partners to God.

'Jesus said, 'Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God''' [John 20:17]
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the bear
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
That is polytheism (paganism) though - he is a man, messenger and a servant of God who was later deified by people, so worship the One he worshipped and do not associate parts or partners to God.

'Jesus said, 'Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God''' [John 20:17]
awww i'm sorry: Our Lord is the Christ, the Messiah, God's first-born, He sits at God's right hand and will judge the living and the dead.

hope that helps
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Jesus is God
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
That is polytheism (paganism) though - he is a man, messenger and a servant of God who was later deified by people, so worship the One he worshipped and do not associate parts or partners to God.

'Jesus said, 'Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God''' [John 20:17]
Erm excuse me ????!!!! No it isn't paganism, just shows you have a basic lack of understanding. Only someone living under a rock thinks Christians worship multiple gods I mean, come on. The Christian god is one, end of. The 3 persons of the Trinity are not separate gods. Jesus said 'I am the truth, the life and the way', ' no one comes to the Father except through me", 'before Abraham was I am'.

Glory to King Jesus Christ, maker of heaven and Earth, of all things seen and unseen. Glory to God in the highest heavens to whom alone belongs all praise and worship, through his son our Lord Jesus Christ, amen.
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the bear
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(Original post by Jesus = Only God)
Erm excuse me ????!!!! No it isn't paganism, just shows you have a basic lack of understanding. Only someone living under a rock thinks Christians worship multiple gods I mean, come on. The Christian god is one, end of. The 3 persons of the Trinity are not separate gods. Jesus said 'I am the truth, the life and the way', ' no one comes to the Father except through me", 'before Abraham was I am'.

Glory to King Jesus Christ, maker of heaven and Earth, of all things seen and unseen. Glory to God in the highest heavens to whom alone belongs all praise and worship, through his son our Lord Jesus Christ, amen.
:five:

if anyone wishes to find out more about Our Lord and the wonderful things He did in Israel just read St Mark's gospel. it is not very long and is packed with memorable detail.
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by Jesus = Only God)
Erm excuse me ????!!!! No it isn't paganism, just shows you have a basic lack of understanding. Only someone living under a rock thinks Christians worship multiple gods I mean, come on. The Christian god is one, end of. The 3 persons of the Trinity are not separate gods. Jesus said 'I am the truth, the life and the way', ' no one comes to the Father except through me", 'before Abraham was I am'.
This will turn into a debate and this isn't the right section for this, but one of the last points I will make: it does not matter if Christians claim they believe in one God - they are guilty of polytheism much like a man may commit an act of blasphemy whilst believing in God. What one says or does and what one believes does not necessarily change the reality if that action.

Secondly, you have no authentic, clear and unambiguous statement from Jesus (PBUH) claiming he is God, which you demonstrated very clearly by pulling out verses like "I am" and so on.

Glory to King Jesus Christ, maker of heaven and Earth, of all things seen and unseen. Glory to God in the highest heavens to whom alone belongs all praise and worship, through his son our Lord Jesus Christ, amen.
This is all flowery rhetoric without substance. Jesus (PBUH), according to the New Testiment, is subservient to God - he has a God, as I showed - and does not know what God knows e.g. when the Hour will be.

I do not know if you have a problem with maths but we can break this down:

God + God + God = 3 Gods

Or

God with a God × God × God = God with a God × God = 1 Higher God + 1 Lower God = 2 Gods

Or

Son of God + God + Spirit = 1 God + 2 entities which submit to the will of God but are not God*

Or

You can call it the mystery of the 'triune God-head' that minds cannot comprehend because it doesn't make sense

All of the above except * is polytheism; if one prays to the 2 entities, then that too becomes polytheism because only God has the right to be worshipped and called upon, and you would have set up a partner beside God in giving another this right.
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Jesus is God
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(Original post by the bear)
:five:

if anyone wishes to find out more about Our Lord and the wonderful things He did in Israel just read St Mark's gospel. it is not very long and is packed with memorable detail.
Amen my dear.

(Original post by Zamestaneh)
This will turn into a debate and this isn't the right section for this, but one of the last points I will make: it does not matter if Christians claim they believe in one God - they are guilty of polytheism much like a man may commit an act of blasphemy whilst believing in God. What one says or does and what one believes does not necessarily change the reality if that action.

Secondly, you have no authentic, clear and unambiguous statement from Jesus (PBUH) claiming he is God, which you demonstrated very clearly by pulling out verses like "I am" and so on.



This is all flowery rhetoric without substance. Jesus (PBUH), according to the New Testiment, is subservient to God - he has a God, as I showed - and does not know what God knows e.g. when the Hour will be.

I do not know if you have a problem with maths but we can break this down:

God + God + God = 3 Gods

Or

God with a God × God × God = God with a God × God = 1 Higher God + 1 Lower God = 2 Gods

Or

Son of God + God + Spirit = 1 God + 2 entities which submit to the will of God but are not God*

Or

You can call it the mystery of the 'triune God-head' that minds cannot comprehend because it doesn't make sense

All of the above except * is polytheism; if one prays to the 2 entities, then that too becomes polytheism because only God has the right to be worshipped and called upon, and you would have set up a partner beside God in giving another this right.
1) My dear, you are very, very wrong and most deluded about our beliefs. It does not matter that you say we are polytheists, we are not. No Christian on Earth claims to worship more than one god and the official doctrines of Christianity are very clear that there's only one god. You being incapable of understanding a fairly simple concept like the Trinity does not mean the rest of us can't, sweetie.

2) Not true, there are many unambiguous verses and I provided some of them. Saying "I am" when speaking in the past tense is obviously reference to his eternal nature. A normal man cannot say that he is the life or that he is one with the Father. These are unambiguous, it's not my problem you want to deny them. Jesus is Lord in heaven and the creator of the universe and nothing you can say or do will change this. Hosanna in the highest, all praise and glory belong to our Lord Jesus Christ, maker of heaven and Earth and rightful sovereign of all existence!

3) No, many scholars have disagreed on those points and shown that the translation in fact mean "no one makes known the hour, neither the Father nor the Son". Besides, even if he didn't know, so what? God voluntarily lowered himself and took on human form to live among us as human. It is perfectly possible for him to temporarily limit his powers and knowledge in such a form. Only a weak, puny god like the one you believe in would be unable to do this.

4) It is you my dear who has a problem with maths because as I explained, the 3 persons of the Trinity are not 3 separate gods so all of your pretend algebra garbage can be discarded. The Trinity makes perfect sense, just like a human is composed of mind, body and spirit without being 3 separate humans.

5) So no, it isn't polytheism and no Christian on Earth says this, therefore they are right and you are wrong. We believe in one god, maker of heaven and Earth who incarnated in the form of our Lord Jesus Christ, ruler of heaven and judge of all souls. Hosanna!
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Zamestaneh
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Wallahi the shrooms must be strong
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gjd800
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They make great black metal.
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the bear
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(Original post by Jesus = Only God)
Hosanna!
thank you for taking the time to refute the flimsy accusations brought against Our Saviour !! i generally find the Muslim Community on TSR to be respectful and well-informed; there are however exceptions as we have seen
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the bear
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Wallahi the shrooms must be strong
it is interesting that your avatar is the flag of the child abduction group Booko Haram ? do you find their behaviour inspiring perhaps ? :holmes:
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Jesus is God
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(Original post by the bear)
thank you for taking the time to refute the flimsy accusations brought against Our Saviour !! i generally find the Muslim Community on TSR to be respectful and well-informed; there are however exceptions as we have seen
No problem darling. I do this for the glory of our heavenly Father, King Jesus Christ.
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by the bear)
it is interesting that your avatar is the flag of the child abduction group Booko Haram ? do you find their behaviour inspiring perhaps ? :holmes:
It is a generic historical Islamic flag used by many; some of those groups are bad and I do not condone e.g. Boko Haram, Al Queda etc
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the bear
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
It is a generic historical Islamic flag used by many; some of those groups are bad and I do not condone e.g. Boko Haram, Al Queda etc
awww i guess google™ does not know their flags :dontknow:


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i am glad to have helped you in this matter
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by the bear)
awww i guess google™ does not know their flags :dontknow:


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i am glad to have helped you in this matter
You sound like you don't take the suggestion that you have polytheistic beliefs well
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Gwilym101
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It's a more honest religion and way more tolerant of other deities.

Pagan pantheons have the general idea of "obey us because we've got power", straight forward and honest, compared to Abrhamic religions where god or his representatives butcher milllions then try and claim that god loves you.

Paganism also allows for different gods to be in different places. Roman and Egyptian pantheons were worshipped in the same time period and generally everyone had the attitude that those were the gods of those areas. If you were a roman who went to Egypt you'd probably pay homage to Egyptian deities whilst there because you're in their house and vice versa.

There's no more evidence for them than there is for Abrhamic religions but they're more straight forward as a concept.
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