What causes racism?
Please don't say "ignorance" as the most racist people are almost always those whose towns and cities have been most affected by immigration, whereas those who live in expensive middle class areas tend to look down on them for expressing such views.
It's clear that racism is an inherent human trait, and no doubt serves an evolutionary purpose reinforcing group solidarity, kinship and support. Those societies with a powerful sense of identity do better than fragmented ones, and their members instinctively look out for each others' well being.
Being inherent and instinctive, racism can't be "cured" any more than any other human emotion can.
It's clear that racism is an inherent human trait, and no doubt serves an evolutionary purpose reinforcing group solidarity, kinship and support. Those societies with a powerful sense of identity do better than fragmented ones, and their members instinctively look out for each others' well being.
Being inherent and instinctive, racism can't be "cured" any more than any other human emotion can.
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Original post by Kenelm
Please don't say "ignorance" as the most racist people are almost always those whose towns and cities have been most affected by immigration, whereas those who live in expensive middle class areas tend to look down on them for expressing such views.
It's clear that racism is an inherent human trait, and no doubt serves an evolutionary purpose reinforcing group solidarity, kinship and support. Those societies with a powerful sense of identity do better than fragmented ones, and their members instinctively look out for each others' well being.
Being inherent and instinctive, racism can't be "cured" any more than any other human emotion can.
It's clear that racism is an inherent human trait, and no doubt serves an evolutionary purpose reinforcing group solidarity, kinship and support. Those societies with a powerful sense of identity do better than fragmented ones, and their members instinctively look out for each others' well being.
Being inherent and instinctive, racism can't be "cured" any more than any other human emotion can.
Societal standards and ingroup favouritism mostly. I'd wager everyone is at least partially implicitly racist. Take a look at the IAT (Implicit Attitude Test) and try one for race, see how ya do.
We're pretty hardwired to prefer our own ingroup (meaning our own race in this instance) because that has survival advantages. People of other races are technically outgroups and so are treated as such, racist stereotyping is a product of that. Putting down the outgroup makes the ingroup's status seem greater. Unfortunately it's an "us and them" situation.
(edited 5 years ago)
Racism is an 'emotion' in the same way that sadness or happiness is? I don't think that's true, regardless of whether or not it is inbuilt to some degree. And you can chose to act contrary to a given emotion. You can feel sad but not act on it. You can feel angry and not act on it. So it's a poor argument/apology for racism as behaviour if that's all you are going to boil it down to.
(edited 5 years ago)
as a white guy I'll tell you what it is:
the hateful violent abusive racism is taught that it's right or they're not taught that it's wrong
then there's just having an opinion that doesn't suit everyone so you're branded racist. When it comes to brown Muslims, I'm in the latta.
or maybe I shouldnt say white guy cos I know racist nonwhites
the hateful violent abusive racism is taught that it's right or they're not taught that it's wrong
then there's just having an opinion that doesn't suit everyone so you're branded racist. When it comes to brown Muslims, I'm in the latta.
or maybe I shouldnt say white guy cos I know racist nonwhites
(edited 5 years ago)
It is a natural instinct to feel safer and more at peace when you are with and around your 'own kind'.
Therefore, when people think that this is being threatened they may be percieved as racist. A lot of racism is down to fear basically, whether justifiable or not.
Therefore, when people think that this is being threatened they may be percieved as racist. A lot of racism is down to fear basically, whether justifiable or not.
Original post by Elastichedgehog
Societal standards and ingroup favouritism mostly. I'd wager everyone is at least partially implicitly racist. Take a look at the IAT (Implicit Attitude Test) and try one for race, see how ya do.
We're pretty hardwired to prefer our own ingroup (meaning our own race in this instance) because that has survival advantages. People of other races are technically outgroups and so are treated as such, racist stereotyping is a product of that. Unfortunately it's an "us and them" situation.
We're pretty hardwired to prefer our own ingroup (meaning our own race in this instance) because that has survival advantages. People of other races are technically outgroups and so are treated as such, racist stereotyping is a product of that. Unfortunately it's an "us and them" situation.
You see it in subcultures, even. Scallies are wary of the rockers, rockers wary of the scallies etc. It crops up insidiously.
Original post by gjd800
You see it in subcultures, even. Scallies are wary of the rockers, rockers wary of the scallies etc. It crops up insidiously.
Absolutely, the ingroup/outgroup dynamic is applicable to much more than just race unfortunately.
Original post by gjd800
You see it in subcultures, even. Scallies are wary of the rockers, rockers wary of the scallies etc. It crops up insidiously.
im not wary of rockers though lol what do you mean? And I dont ask that aggressively.Original post by Bang Outta Order im not wary of rockers though lol what do you mean? And I dont ask that aggressively.
im not wary of rockers though lol what do you mean? And I dont ask that aggressively.Generalisation.
I'm not usually wary of anybody, all things being equal, but if you look at the groups of people that tend to stick together, there's a general truth to it. People are flabbergasted if I go into certain bars looking like I do, same way my mates are flabbergasted if someone walks into the local bike club boozer in their trackies and North face waterproof. Insidious little judgements behind most of what we do and how we represent ourselves, I suppose.
Original post by gjd800
Generalisation.
I'm not usually wary of anybody, all things being equal, but if you look at the groups of people that tend to stick together, there's a general truth to it. People are flabbergasted if I go into certain bars looking like I do, same way my mates are flabbergasted if someone walks into the local bike club boozer in their trackies and North face waterproof. Insidious little judgements behind most of what we do and how we represent ourselves, I suppose.
I'm not usually wary of anybody, all things being equal, but if you look at the groups of people that tend to stick together, there's a general truth to it. People are flabbergasted if I go into certain bars looking like I do, same way my mates are flabbergasted if someone walks into the local bike club boozer in their trackies and North face waterproof. Insidious little judgements behind most of what we do and how we represent ourselves, I suppose.
really dont get how bikers can snub their nose at anyone lol but I see what ya mean. As far as racism though I think it's just literally taught or simply neglected behaviour. Like I've seen it, in my area parents snatch their kids away from migrants or brown people or act aggressively towards them in front of their kids or berate their kids for speaking to a muslim kid or traveller (rofl) kid. Or their kid swears at or bullies another which I've seen and they get told on to the parent who laughs it off or fights the parent and then gives their kid an ice cream loool whereas I don't think scallies bully each other into not chatting with others but idk I need sleep.
Original post by Elastichedgehog
Absolutely, the ingroup/outgroup dynamic is applicable to much more than just race unfortunately.
i think you're simplifying it as it a social group thing. Aside from gangs the only two differing groups that have always clashed to the point of violence and murder, besides religion which is irrelevant here, are races. But two different social groups simply snub each other and dont wanna be friends. It doesnt become hateful or volatile or bloody or jeopardy to survival. Racism is bigger than social cliqueiness.
Original post by Bang Outta Order
really dont get how bikers can snub their nose at anyone lol but I see what ya mean. As far as racism though I think it's just literally taught or simply neglected behaviour. Like I've seen it, in my area parents snatch their kids away from migrants or brown people or act aggressively towards them in front of their kids or berate their kids for speaking to a muslim kid or traveller (rofl) kid. Or their kid swears at or bullies another which I've seen and they get told on to the parent who laughs it off or fights the parent and then gives their kid an ice cream loool whereas I don't think scallies bully each other into not chatting with others but idk I need sleep.
I know what you mean, yeah, but I think subcultures - especially where kids are concerned - certainly do ostracise if a member deviates form their norm. Seen it happen loads as a kid, and even now when we are supposedly adults. Not everyone is enlightened as you about taking people as you find them, you only need to read some of these threads!
I'm not saying its equivalent to racism, I'm just saying that insularity and internal preference between groups is not limited to race. You could even make the argument that some footie fans are guilty of it.
you can't just pin it down to a single cause.. there are quite a few:
1, old-fashioned superiority. This was the principle cause in the past.. the idea that we are more developed and advanced as a society, and we are white.. they are less developed, and they are black. So we are worth more then them/better then them etc.
Mostly this has died away, but it does certainly still exist on the extreme right.
2, fear. Generally this comes from two parts - 1 a fear of violence/harm, and 2 a fear of loosing something (normally ones culture). This type is different from the first, because it only exists when the two races meet. For example a person from type 1, would see a documentary about black people in africa and think awful things about them... a person from type 2 would think nothing bad at all. But then were a group of black people to come suddenly to where person 1 lived, they would start to think negativly about them.
Its worth noting that sometimes fear can be rational and logical... but mostly these days its not.
3, Nutural group biases, and similarity bias/majority bias. This is where we are at today.. these are the causes of micro agressions and most of the small racist tendancies and problems in the UK.
We have largely got rid of causes 1+2, but 3 is much harder to get rid of, and arguably it may not be possible to get rid of. These cause people who don't have a conciously bad thought about another race, to act in a way that ends up minorly disadvantaging the other race. For example, white people wanting to live in mostly white neighborhoods.. is generally just because they feel comfortable with those they are more similar to... the majority of our public figures and business leaders being white (often disproportionatly so) can usually be put down to a majority bias, where groups within organisiations favour those who seem more similar to themselves, and the largest group ends up being the most dominant.. etc.
With the exception of the majority bias, you also see all of these causes within minority communities themselves, as they are very nautural functions of how we interact with other people.
4, Practical reasons: this one is easy.. some people become racist because a person from another race has harmed them (or they think so) and they blame the whole race for it.. for example the working class man who looses his job when lots of polish people come to town.. or the white mum whose daughter is raped by an asian gang.. its an illogical position to blame a group for the actions of a single person, but in those situations people are usually reacting on emotion rather then logic.
5, Ignorance. This is not a huge one in the UK, but it is in other places. I live in China, and I would say that here its the number one cause. All of the people I know here have simply never met a black man. there are none in this town, and they make up 0.00001% of the nearest city. The only exposure to black people they have ever had is through american movies.. and most of their ideas and problems with black people comes from simple ignorance and a lack of experiance.
6, political goals and practical aims. Some people become 'racist' because it can advance their career to view ideas in such away, and given time they simply adopt those ideas fully, and its hard to tell where the distinctions are any more
7, Patronizing superiority. This is one you see on the fringes of the left. Its where you have a left-ist who needs to save black people, because only they can. Its a person who is trying, genuinly, to do something nice.. bu they still have a superiority complex, and still view minorities as less, as fragile and vunerable, and child-like.. individuals.
---
I'm pretty sure there are more. With such a complicated issue, there are bound to be many many causes.
Its also always good to remember that there are many many types of racism as well. Its not just - YOUR A RACIST.. end. Its - what type of racist are they. You need to understand that before you can try and propperly challenge them on their ideas (or not, some of the types of racist will never be pursuaded)
1, old-fashioned superiority. This was the principle cause in the past.. the idea that we are more developed and advanced as a society, and we are white.. they are less developed, and they are black. So we are worth more then them/better then them etc.
Mostly this has died away, but it does certainly still exist on the extreme right.
2, fear. Generally this comes from two parts - 1 a fear of violence/harm, and 2 a fear of loosing something (normally ones culture). This type is different from the first, because it only exists when the two races meet. For example a person from type 1, would see a documentary about black people in africa and think awful things about them... a person from type 2 would think nothing bad at all. But then were a group of black people to come suddenly to where person 1 lived, they would start to think negativly about them.
Its worth noting that sometimes fear can be rational and logical... but mostly these days its not.
3, Nutural group biases, and similarity bias/majority bias. This is where we are at today.. these are the causes of micro agressions and most of the small racist tendancies and problems in the UK.
We have largely got rid of causes 1+2, but 3 is much harder to get rid of, and arguably it may not be possible to get rid of. These cause people who don't have a conciously bad thought about another race, to act in a way that ends up minorly disadvantaging the other race. For example, white people wanting to live in mostly white neighborhoods.. is generally just because they feel comfortable with those they are more similar to... the majority of our public figures and business leaders being white (often disproportionatly so) can usually be put down to a majority bias, where groups within organisiations favour those who seem more similar to themselves, and the largest group ends up being the most dominant.. etc.
With the exception of the majority bias, you also see all of these causes within minority communities themselves, as they are very nautural functions of how we interact with other people.
4, Practical reasons: this one is easy.. some people become racist because a person from another race has harmed them (or they think so) and they blame the whole race for it.. for example the working class man who looses his job when lots of polish people come to town.. or the white mum whose daughter is raped by an asian gang.. its an illogical position to blame a group for the actions of a single person, but in those situations people are usually reacting on emotion rather then logic.
5, Ignorance. This is not a huge one in the UK, but it is in other places. I live in China, and I would say that here its the number one cause. All of the people I know here have simply never met a black man. there are none in this town, and they make up 0.00001% of the nearest city. The only exposure to black people they have ever had is through american movies.. and most of their ideas and problems with black people comes from simple ignorance and a lack of experiance.
6, political goals and practical aims. Some people become 'racist' because it can advance their career to view ideas in such away, and given time they simply adopt those ideas fully, and its hard to tell where the distinctions are any more
7, Patronizing superiority. This is one you see on the fringes of the left. Its where you have a left-ist who needs to save black people, because only they can. Its a person who is trying, genuinly, to do something nice.. bu they still have a superiority complex, and still view minorities as less, as fragile and vunerable, and child-like.. individuals.
---
I'm pretty sure there are more. With such a complicated issue, there are bound to be many many causes.
Its also always good to remember that there are many many types of racism as well. Its not just - YOUR A RACIST.. end. Its - what type of racist are they. You need to understand that before you can try and propperly challenge them on their ideas (or not, some of the types of racist will never be pursuaded)
Original post by Abzo_xx
I watched the first 7 seconds, until the nice middle class woman said "ignorant".
Original post by Elastichedgehog
Societal standards and ingroup favouritism mostly. I'd wager everyone is at least partially implicitly racist. Take a look at the IAT (Implicit Attitude Test) and try one for race, see how ya do.
We're pretty hardwired to prefer our own ingroup (meaning our own race in this instance) because that has survival advantages. People of other races are technically outgroups and so are treated as such, racist stereotyping is a product of that. Putting down the outgroup makes the ingroup's status seem greater. Unfortunately it's an "us and them" situation.
We're pretty hardwired to prefer our own ingroup (meaning our own race in this instance) because that has survival advantages. People of other races are technically outgroups and so are treated as such, racist stereotyping is a product of that. Putting down the outgroup makes the ingroup's status seem greater. Unfortunately it's an "us and them" situation.
It's basically human nature.
Original post by gjd800
Racism is an 'emotion' in the same way that sadness or happiness is? I don't think that's true, regardless of whether or not it is inbuilt to some degree. And you can chose to act contrary to a given emotion. You can feel sad but not act on it. You can feel angry and not act on it. So it's a poor argument/apology for racism as behaviour if that's all you are going to boil it down to.
Suppressing instincts, or emotions (should we choose to call them that) usually causes them to manifest in some other way. Perhaps in the hysterical way some people treat those with racist opinions.
One thing to point out is that racism can effect all not just one type of person/culture or race.
Firstly racism is a learnt behaviour and not primordial (born with). It's probably caused by what is called conditions of worth. That means people are spoken to about stuff which instead of making their own decisions they take on others because of conformity or being emotional blackmailed to do so. It is definitely not an emotion, more of a mind set. (Techie bit : emotions are the response to physical changes, feelings come after emotions).
Some may believe the gutter press, while others gossip - a bit like all Africans are great runners, Welsh people can sing, Swedish people have blonde hair and blue eyes etc.
A lot is historical due to the slave trade, and the fact landlords would demand no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. A lot of places in the UK simply did not know of any other culture, including other areas of the world (due to bad transport links) thus the gossip would predate the arrival and taint the people afterwards.
Lastly some people just aren't a good representative of their race or culture and so again taint others of the same with their history.
I've know lots of people from different races and cultures, all want the same thing - love, family, good career, safe place call home. That doesn't change with skin colour, race,culture etc.
Racism is basically just ignorance and lack of education. Get to know people from races and fundamentally they are all the same.
Firstly racism is a learnt behaviour and not primordial (born with). It's probably caused by what is called conditions of worth. That means people are spoken to about stuff which instead of making their own decisions they take on others because of conformity or being emotional blackmailed to do so. It is definitely not an emotion, more of a mind set. (Techie bit : emotions are the response to physical changes, feelings come after emotions).
Some may believe the gutter press, while others gossip - a bit like all Africans are great runners, Welsh people can sing, Swedish people have blonde hair and blue eyes etc.
A lot is historical due to the slave trade, and the fact landlords would demand no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. A lot of places in the UK simply did not know of any other culture, including other areas of the world (due to bad transport links) thus the gossip would predate the arrival and taint the people afterwards.
Lastly some people just aren't a good representative of their race or culture and so again taint others of the same with their history.
I've know lots of people from different races and cultures, all want the same thing - love, family, good career, safe place call home. That doesn't change with skin colour, race,culture etc.
Racism is basically just ignorance and lack of education. Get to know people from races and fundamentally they are all the same.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Purdy7
One thing to point out is that racism can effect all not just one type of person/culture or race.
Firstly racism is a learnt behaviour and not primordial (born with). It's probably caused by what is called conditions of worth. That means people are spoken to about stuff which instead of making their own decisions they take on others because of conformity or being emotional blackmailed to do so. It is definitely not an emotion, more of a mind set. (Techie bit : emotions are the response to physical changes, feelings come after emotions).
Some may believe the gutter press, while others gossip - a bit like all Africans are great runners, Welsh people can sing, Swedish people have blonde hair and blue eyes etc.
A lot is historical due to the slave trade, and the fact landlords would demand no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. A lot of places in the UK simply did not know of any other culture, including other areas of the world (due to bad transport links) thus the gossip would predate the arrival and taint the people afterwards.
Lastly some people just aren't a good representative of their race or culture and so again taint others of the same with their history.
Firstly racism is a learnt behaviour and not primordial (born with). It's probably caused by what is called conditions of worth. That means people are spoken to about stuff which instead of making their own decisions they take on others because of conformity or being emotional blackmailed to do so. It is definitely not an emotion, more of a mind set. (Techie bit : emotions are the response to physical changes, feelings come after emotions).
Some may believe the gutter press, while others gossip - a bit like all Africans are great runners, Welsh people can sing, Swedish people have blonde hair and blue eyes etc.
A lot is historical due to the slave trade, and the fact landlords would demand no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. A lot of places in the UK simply did not know of any other culture, including other areas of the world (due to bad transport links) thus the gossip would predate the arrival and taint the people afterwards.
Lastly some people just aren't a good representative of their race or culture and so again taint others of the same with their history.
I know of no evidence that racism is a learnt behaviour. Indeed, seeing how young children treat those who are different rather tends to the opposite conclusion.
Original post by Kenelm
I know of no evidence that racism is a learnt behaviour. Indeed, seeing how young children treat those who are different rather tends to the opposite conclusion.
Have a look at External and Internal Locus of Evaluation, Conditions of Worth by Carl Rogers.
Also Introduction to Psychology by Atkinson etc.
Even young children learn their language skills from their parents or others around them. They can be taught racism from the time they learn to speak.
If it was primordial then every one would be racists which we aren't, thus proving its not instinctual. It may just be the experiences you have had, which is very sad, but it needs to challenged. Just try to see people from within, rather the outer shells.
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