Death sentence for defending herself from a rapist. Watch

username2452153
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-44076942

What do you have to say about it?


https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...-noura-hussein

"According to her supporters – including the activist group Equality Now, which is backing a petition organised on her behalf – Hussein had been with her husband for six days when he raped her with the assistance of his brother, a relative, and a witness, who held her down. "
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by tangotangopapa2)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-44076942

What do you have to say about it?
Is there any evidence of actual rape or have we descended to a place of taking allegations as facts?
I dont know the truth because I was not there, but we should be careful in this sort of reaction.

We have entered a realm that suggests that once rape is alleged, then it is true without proper investigations.
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SoulfulTwist
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I see what she did as defence but to keep on stabbing as the article states...not sure that is part of defence.
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SoulfulTwist
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Quoted but cannot see the quote :dontknow:
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QE2
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Surely it's cultural imperialism to condemn the way they do things? Who are we to say that such practices are oppressive, unjust and barbaric? Under the Islamic system of Diya the family of the victim has the final say in the fate of the accused, and they chose death - and obviously without the required four male witnesses to the unlawful sexual intercourse, it cannot be used as mitigation for the murder.
Don't blame the people implementing the system, their hands are tied.
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Guru Jason
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Whether self defence or murder, capital punishment is wrong plain, simple and universal.
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NonIndigenous
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(Original post by QE2)
Surely it's cultural imperialism to condemn the way they do things? Who are we to say that such practices are oppressive, unjust and barbaric? Under the Islamic system of Diya the family of the victim has the final say in the fate of the accused, and they chose death - and obviously without the required four male witnesses to the unlawful sexual intercourse, it cannot be used as mitigation for the murder.
Don't blame the people implementing the system, their hands are tied.
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Gofre
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Is there any evidence of actual rape or have we descended to a place of taking allegations as facts?
I dont know the truth because I was not there, but we should be careful in this sort of reaction.

We have entered a realm that suggests that once rape is alleged, then it is true without proper investigations.
Assuming her parents surrendered her over to the police shortly after the killing, evidence of forced restraint and sexual assault should have been easily identifiable during a medical/forensic examination if performed promptly. Whether such examinations took place, or even whether a shariah court would care that she was raped, are entirely other matters.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Gofre)
Assuming her parents surrendered her over to the police shortly after the killing, evidence of forced restraint and sexual assault should have been easily identifiable during a medical/forensic examination if performed promptly. Whether such examinations took place, or even whether a shariah court would care that she was raped, are entirely other matters.
Nobody knows the real facts. Yes, of course, there may have been systemic issues with the “justice” system if the community with regard to the points you have made.

My point was the sudden jump to rape, whenever cases like these come up. It is this hostile stance of inherent guilt by default.
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username1221160
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Nobody knows the real facts. Yes, of course, there may have been systemic issues with the “justice” system if the community with regard to the points you have made.

My point was the sudden jump to rape, whenever cases like these come up. It is this hostile stance of inherent guilt by default.

In this case her husband is inherently innocent.

A Sudanese woman could be raped every night by her husband and he will be fine and dandy as martial rape is not recognised as a crime is this barbaric backwater (they are also really into their female genital mutilation and Sudanese men have a predilection for marrying underage girls).

She was forcibly married to her husband. I'd consider the consummation of her nonconsensual marriage to be rape, regardless of her allegation that she was held down by her husband's relatives. But I''ve got a dim view of forced marriages, others may have a more relaxed attitude to them.
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shameful_burrito
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Everyday I’m losing a little more faith in humanity
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Sulfolobus)
In this case her husband is inherently innocent.

A Sudanese woman could be raped every night by her husband and he will be fine and dandy as martial rape is not recognised as a crime is this barbaric backwater (they are also really into their female genital mutilation and Sudanese men have a predilection for marrying underage girls).

She was forcibly married to her husband. I'd consider the consummation of her nonconsensual marriage to be rape, regardless of her allegation that she was held down by her husband's relatives. But I''ve got a dim view of forced marriages, others may have a more relaxed attitude to them.
All these are claims, which we are reading from a newspaper with a probable agenda. The issue that many people don't seem to understand is that some countries still have arranged marriages.

If the man did rape her then she should have sought justice. Yes, I acknowledge the biases in the justice system of that country, but killing the man was beyond the mark. To me, I give death sentence to murderers and pedophiles. If a person takes a life, whether it is through abortion or direct/indirect killing, then we take their life.

If I was the Judge, I would jail/punish the girl’s family for forcing her back into the man’s home, jail/punish the man’s family for being complicit in underage marriage, then sentence the girl to death for killing another person.
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Nazx
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
All these are claims, which we are reading from a newspaper with a probable agenda. The issue that many people don't seem to understand is that some countries still have arranged marriages.

If the man did rape her then she should have sought justice. Yes, I acknowledge the biases in the justice system of that country, but killing the man was beyond the mark. To me, I give death sentence to murderers and pedophiles. If a person takes a life, whether it is through abortion or direct/indirect killing, then we take their life.

If I was the Judge, I would jail/punish the girl’s family for forcing her back into the man’s home, jail/punish the man’s family for being complicit in underage marriage, then sentence the girl to death for killing another person.

First of all she was 19 that's not under aged.
Be careful you're mixing up arranged marriage and forced marriage. This was a forced marriage as Noura did not agree to the marriage.
In Sudan 'Marital rape' is not seen as a crime. However, they are governed by shari'ah law I believe and so this marriage wouldn't have counted as a marriage because BOTH the bride and groom are supposed to consent which is not what happened in this case. So that was just plain rape.
But the stabbing is another case. If she went to court about the 'marital' rape (if he wasn't killed that is) I don't think anything would have been done for her. Honestly this is a tough one (I am Muslim by the way).
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QE2
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(Original post by straightIrishguy)
give me a fuc.king break you w.anker - your pseudo intellectualism might fool most of the morons on this site, but I, and really anyone with more than 2 brain cells, can see right through your facade
First and foremost; calm down dear!
Second and subsequently, what makes you think my intellectualism is pseudo?
Thirdly and finally, what facade?

1. Diya is not a regular thing - Islamic law governs the country in principle, but very rarely in practice - and this is true for pretty much all Muslim countries
What do you mean "Diya is not a regular thing"? Is it something prescribed by the Quran and sahih hadith or not?
If it is (It is BTW, in case you aren't familiar with islamic scripture), then it is an immutable part of Islam, whether governments practice it or not.

2. Also what exactly is wrong with this law?
You mean the law that states that someone guilty of murder can get away with it if they have the money to pay off the victim's family? Oh, I don't know.

and more specifically what is wrong with this case?
Apart from the forced marriage, the rape and the death sentence? Good point. Ya got me there!

are you really that primitive and barbaric that you believe people can take the law into their own hands and can murder someone because they've accused them of rape?
Nope. Don't believe that. Never said it. Never implied it.

if so, that sounds pretty barbaric and against the western values that you claim to be needing protection from Muslims
I don't think "western values need protecting from Muslims".

- don't try to delete the evidence buddy, I have screenshots
I'd be interested to see what you think is "evidence" of this.

Buddy, the end line is that no matter how much you try to hide your identity with some author who appealed to a rising populist movement,
Ironic that you talk about hiding identity when you feel the need to create a dupe to make your post.
(BTW, nobody displays their actual identity on these forums, you dunderhead.)

you'll always be the pathetic edgy teen on a cancerous dying forum who doesn't know the crap he's regurgitating, while being fixed in a positive feedback loop of a populist movement
What was that you were saying about "faux intellectualism"?

Don't be a sheep, try to read the Quran version not posted on breitbart and other degeneracy breeding sites kids like you go to
Sproiiinggg! There goes the spring on my Acme Irony-o-Meter™

You do realise that "being a sheep" means unquestioningly following a group - the very definition of organised religion.

It does not matter which version of the Quran you read, they are all the same because it is unaltered and protected by Allah.
BTW, I always consult several versions to ensure reliability. My favoured resourceis quranx.com as it also provides a selection of tafsir and associated hadith. You should try it, it's very good.

Be good homie
Inshallah
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Nazx)
First of all she was 19 that's not under aged.
Be careful you're mixing up arranged marriage and forced marriage. This was a forced marriage as Noura did not agree to the marriage.
In Sudan 'Marital rape' is not seen as a crime. However, they are governed by shari'ah law I believe and so this marriage wouldn't have counted as a marriage because BOTH the bride and groom are supposed to consent which is not what happened in this case. So that was just plain rape.
But the stabbing is another case. If she went to court about the 'marital' rape (if he wasn't killed that is) I don't think anything would have been done for her. Honestly this is a tough one (I am Muslim by the way).
I am not Muslim and do not know much about Sharia Law. I think this case is in two parts: the forced marriage and murder.

In part 1, the forced marriage already posed a problem. Any sexual or emotional activity would have been classified as assault, regardless because of consent. Hence why the family should be punished for this breach in marital consent.

In part 2, i think the killing of a person should carry the capital punishment. For her to have taken the man’s life was grounds for death in my opinion.

Now, i am not normalising rape or sexual assault, but I am going back the fact of killing. I think in this case, all parties should be punished according to the severity of their crimes.
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straightIrishguy
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I am not Muslim and do not know much about Sharia Law. I think this case is in two parts: the forced marriage and murder.
In part 1, the forced marriage already posed a problem. Any sexual or emotional activity would have been classified as assault, regardless because of consent. Hence why the family should be punished for this breach in marital consent.

In part 2, i think the killing of a person should carry the capital punishment. For her to have taken the man’s life was grounds for death in my opinion.

Now, i am not normalising rape or sexual assault, but I am going back the fact of killing. I think in this case, all parties should be punished according to the severity of their crimes.
exactly, someone entering a person without consent is not ground for murder - perhaps if the murder accidently occurred during self defense then yes
the woman could have went to the authorities to report and investigate the rape but she chose to take a life - the most severe action a human can take
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Napp
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Whilst this is of course very sad i'm not sure what change people expect to bring by sharing aforementioned article? Sudan is little more than a failed state, or well on its way to that.
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joey11223
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(Original post by Sulfolobus)

A Sudanese woman could be raped every night by her husband and he will be fine and dandy as martial rape is not recognised as a crime is this barbaric backwater
In fairness I think it's a little rich for countries like ours to go around criticizing others for such laws (or lack of), since marital rape wasn't illegal here until 1991. That's only 27 years ago, less than a generation almost when we were exactly the same, unfortunately it's unrealistic to expect the whole world to keep pace with improvements in equality, protection etc.
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by straightIrishguy)
1. Haha, the typical and yet so predictable response of 'calm down' - the purpose of which is only to demean the opposition, so as to seem somehow more level headed and logical in comparison - I want to say well played, but it was so obvious that it was your only option left
2. Your intellectualism on Islam is for sure pseudo - you cannot critique a book you haven't read; it's ridiculous that you think quickly google searching a quote on the internet that supports your ignorance is sufficient evidence for your deceitful argument - When I'm answering a question about some novel from, lets say the 1800s, I have to look at the biographical context, the social, the literary, I have to look at what was going on in that time, what tools they had, what the sort of mentality there was etc. - but most importantly I have to ACTUALLY READ THE ORIGINAL TEXT, NOT ONCE, NOT TWICE, BUT A NUMBER OF TIMES, IN ITS ENTIRETY - And I am a 100% certain that, let alone once, you haven't even read a single chapter of the Quran - that my dear boy, is ridiculous and the very definition of being a pseudo intellect - it's the equivalent of me going into my English Lit. exam to talk about Emily Bronte's 'Wuthering Heights' without have actually even read the book once- and the only thing I did to prepare was to search up some random out of context quotes to support the point I was making while revising
3. The facade of hiding behind a well known author's identity and to use his sophisticated image to mask yourself and your true purpose on this site - I'm not saying don't use a fake profile picture, but perhaps not use one that makes your motives on this site obvious - Christopher Hitchens was a populist appealing to the rising atheist movement in the western world to make quick bucks- any evidence you need is his brother also getting in on the action - not too different from the charlatan known as 'Jordan Peterson'



1. What I mean by that is that just because it is something prescribed by the Quran, doesn't mean all Muslim governments abide to it all the time. Are you really that idiotic that you think that Muslim countries strictly follow all Islamic rules and laws? you're quite deluded fellow charlatan

Jesus Christ, how thick are you? so? that sentence literally makes no sense, are you trying to make a point or what? because I never said it isn't- but I think you're trying to imply something about Islamic Law being the the final say in Muslim countries -if so, that is literally the most uninformed thing I've heard someone say on this forum today, and that is saying something

yes and? I see nothing wrong with that - also keep in mind it only applies IF the family wants it too - otherwise it's an eye for an eye - literally nothing more fair than that

If you don't know why did you mention it? Perhaps gather your thoughts before spewing your zealous crap online


I never said that was ok - but you seem to be implying that Islam condones rape and forced marriage? are you? Are you really implying that Islam condones rape and forced marriage? If not why make a causative link between the 2?
As for the death sentence -tell me how it's unfair? a murderer made an allegation and you think that allegation is sufficient to overturn the justice being given? by that logic you should also agree that all rape allegations are true and should be immediately be taken into account. do you? hypocrite?
Also, Islam condones self defense - so if the rape allegation is true, then what the Sudanese did was anti Islamic



really? then why do you keep defending the murderer ?



Literally every single one of your posts on your timeline suggests otherwise

I made this account so that I could get resources for studying, not arguing with charlatans - evidence supporting my statement are a lot of my posts being in 'ccea' thread
WHOAH 'DUNDERHEAD' DAMN, NOW I MUST TELL YOU TO BE 'CALM' AS OBVIOUSLY USING MILDLY OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE IMPLIES THAT YOU'RE FRUSTRATED OR ANGRY RIGHHHT? see where I'm going with this you hypocrite?


Not going to repeat myself, see above

irony about what?

Just because I follow a religion it doesn't mean that - it means that you move with the herd even though you don't know why you're moving and where
I know you definitely didn't, but I've spent plenty of time learning about my religion
Let me tell you a story:
Once upon a time there was this Muslim boy called X
Now X didn't know much about Islam but what he was told by his parents -he had only read the Quran once in a language he didn't understand
So when X got a bit older, X started to hear a lot about how bad Islam was and that it was the very reason that everyone suffers in the world
So what X did was, he started to go on (now in reflection) anti Islamic websites to learn about Islam - one such being 'barenakedislam.com'
So when on these extremist websites X thought maybe I'm looking at Islamic criticism from an obviously biased source - I'll go to websites which are more fair and don't condone the mass murder of Muslim children- so X did
And then X started reading about Islam on breitbart, 4chan, etc. - and he though whoa Islam really is bad
But then as X matured a bit more he realized the obvious bias these sites had against Muslims- so he finally decided that he would become an atheist
But then X matured even more, and decided to read the Quran - He though why not, might as well read the actual thing with meaning
That's when X realized how wrong everyone else had been about it- He realized that the Quran was the epitome of logic and moralistic values- he realized that the atheistic notion that 'one should be should be internally good and not because of fear of Hell' was ridiculous - give a homeless starving man an option to steal from others, without repercussions, and then see how 'internally good' he and indeed mandkind is- That's when X realized that Islam isn't necessary a soft lie, but a harsh truth - he realized deterrents are needed, and that charity should also be mandatory. He realized a lot of things and finally decided that he were to become a Muslim again and learn as much about Islam as he can- he decided he should learn Arabic so that he can read the Quran in the original language it was written in, in that way he knew he would truly be able to understand the Quran
And so to this day X continues to learn Islam from the original unaltered source, the Quran in Arabic.
Unfortunately X also sees a lot of false and misleading information online about Islam, that irritates hims because he knows that it is not entirely truthful. He also sees that a lot of Muslims themselves are misguided and have never bothered to read the Quran, which is leading to an atheistic populist movement even in Muslim communities in the Western world. He also noticed how some extremist groups such as ISIS are hypocrites and as much educated about Islam than the next breitbart user, and how perverted and anti Islamic their cause is
So X occasionally uses his common sense and Islamic knowledge to spread a little bit of enlightenment- but X knows it is futile as populist movements and politicians will be able to reach more people than he ever will. So he keeps to himself and tries to ignore every single goddamned post on Muslims
However occasionally X gets tired of seeing the BS posted on these threads and gives in and tries to tell the people not to be sheep
X is me

It actually does, there is only supposed to be 1 version of the Quran, which contains God's unaltered word - so when you say 'version' it is a faux pas on your part

they should be, if they're not something is wrong -however it's my personal belief that you cannot critique the Quran unless you have read it in Arabic in its entirety - however it's understandable that not everyone can be bothered to learn Arabic - so I suppose the English translation is fine although due to semantics a lot of things in it could be misleading, leading to different translations and therefore versions - which people can used to justify their insincere purpose

I couldn't give less of a crap -unless you have read it in its entirety (preferably in Arabic) and looked at the social, political, biographical, etc. context you're illiterate and unqualified to write about Islam in my eyes


That doesn't mean what you think it does (it means if God wills) - another example of your ignorance on Islam and the importance of knowing the Arabic language to learn about it


ps: Nice job reporting me buddy -can't handle the fact that you were exposed as the dimwit and charlatan you are? if you try to report this and get me banned I'll just post it with another account- I have a vpn, so they can't block my isp address
Damn. This is the longest post I've seen on TSR for a long time. Must be almost as long as the Qu'ran itself.
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QE2
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You are seriously impatient BTW. You only posted this 19 hours ago and have already made half a dozen posts (and a couple of dupes) complaining about me not responding. Some of us have a life, you know. So, here it is.

(Original post by straightIrishguy)
2. Your intellectualism on Islam is for sure pseudo - you cannot critique a book you haven't read; it's ridiculous that you think quickly google searching a quote on the internet that supports your ignorance is sufficient evidence for your deceitful argument - When I'm answering a question about some novel from, lets say the 1800s, I have to look at the biographical context, the social, the literary, I have to look at what was going on in that time, what tools they had, what the sort of mentality there was etc. - but most importantly I have to ACTUALLY READ THE ORIGINAL TEXT, NOT ONCE, NOT TWICE, BUT A NUMBER OF TIMES, IN ITS ENTIRETY - And I am a 100% certain that, let alone once, you haven't even read a single chapter of the Quran - that my dear boy, is ridiculous and the very definition of being a pseudo intellect - it's the equivalent of me going into my English Lit. exam to talk about Emily Bronte's 'Wuthering Heights' without have actually even read the book once- and the only thing I did to prepare was to search up some random out of context quotes to support the point I was making while revising
All very good points, but utterly meaningless in this context as I have not only read the entire Quran, but read it again (in a different translation) with a classical tafsir (because when I started quoting the Quran in debates, Muslims told me I had to read it, and when I told them I had they told me that just reading it isn't enough - I had to read it with a tafsir. Something I suspect you have not done.
Seriously, with all due respect, getting your Islam from YouTube videos is no substitute for actually reading islamic scripture.

3. The facade of hiding behind a well known author's identity and to use his sophisticated image to mask yourself and your true purpose on this site - I'm not saying don't use a fake profile picture, but perhaps not use one that makes your motives on this site obvious - Christopher Hitchens was a populist appealing to the rising atheist movement in the western world to make quick bucks- any evidence you need is his brother also getting in on the action - not too different from the charlatan known as 'Jordan Peterson'
So you think it is dishonest for a staunch atheist who writes anti-religious polemic online to use Christopher Hitchens as profile pic?
Erm, ok...:confused:

1. What I mean by that is that just because it is something prescribed by the Quran, doesn't mean all Muslim governments abide to it all the time. Are you really that idiotic that you think that Muslim countries strictly follow all Islamic rules and laws? you're quite deluded fellow charlatan
You seem to have missed the point entirely. What individual governments do is irrelevant. The point is about the content of Islamic ideology. I am well aware that the only state to fully implement Islamic ideology with no concession to 1400 years of progress is Islamic State.

Jesus Christ, how thick are you? so? that sentence literally makes no sense, are you trying to make a point or what? because I never said it isn't- but I think you're trying to imply something about Islamic Law being the the final say in Muslim countries -if so, that is literally the most uninformed thing I've heard someone say on this forum today, and that is saying something
Again, the same straw man.
BTW, it makes perfect sense. What makes "Islam" is not dependent on the policies of the governments of Muslim majority countries.

yes and? I see nothing wrong with that - also keep in mind it only applies IF the family wants it too - otherwise it's an eye for an eye - literally nothing more fair than that
So just to be clear.
You believe that a murderer should be able to buy his way out of punishment. Likewise, a rapist should walk free if he can afford to pay off the victim. And so on...
How very civilised.

If you don't know why did you mention it? Perhaps gather your thoughts before spewing your zealous crap online
Really? You actually thought that I don't know what's wrong with that after listing all the things that were wrong with it? Sometimes the sarcasm is so strong that an emoji is needed to understand it.

I never said that was ok - but you seem to be implying that Islam condones rape and forced marriage? are you? Are you really implying that Islam condones rape and forced marriage? If not why make a causative link between the 2?
Islam does condone rape and forced marriage. Perhaps not explicitly, but certainly implicitly.
There are several passages in the Quran and sunnah that allow the use of female slaves and captives for sex. This is legally "rape".
Again, both the Quran and sunnah allow the marriage of girls too young to have the capacity for provide free, informed consent. This is legally "forced marriage".

As for the death sentence -tell me how it's unfair?
Capital punishment is fundamentally wrong, for a variety of reasons.

a murderer made an allegation and you think that allegation is sufficient to overturn the justice being given?
Nope. The woman, if found guilty of murder (although under more reasonable legal systems she would probably be charged with manslaughter) should be punished. Just not by being killed.

by that logic you should also agree that all rape allegations are true and should be immediately be taken into account. do you? hypocrite?
Wow. That's quite a non sequitur. Not sure how you made that jump.

Also, Islam condones self defense - so if the rape allegation is true, then what the Sudanese did was anti Islamic
But there is no such offence as "rape" in Islam, only "illegal sexual intercourse (zina) - and sex between a husband and a wife cannot be illegal. Also remember that Islam requires four male witnesses to confirm that the illegal sex actually took place. Without that, no case can be brought.

really? then why do you keep defending the murderer ?
Assuming that the story is true, you don't think that the woman deserves more sympathy than the husband? Remember that the whole of early Islamic history is based on the concept of revenge for perceived mistreatment. Muhammad's invasion of Mecca and the killing of captives is justified because "they had been nasty to him".

BTW, to reiterate - I don't believe that she should go unpunished, just that the punishment should be commensurate with the circumstances.

Literally every single one of your posts on your timeline suggests otherwise
So let's be clear here. You made the accusation that I think that "western values need protecting from Muslims", and claimed to have evidence (screenshots). However, when I ask you to present these, you are unable to.

I don't think that "western values need protecting from Muslims". I don't even think that "western values need protecting from Islam", as modern liberal democracies are far generally too strong and stable to be threatened by a minority of ideologues. I just think that Islam is an unpleasant and outdates ideology that is incompatible with modern, liberal democracy - but it is certainly not a threat to it.

I made this account so that I could get resources for studying, not arguing with charlatans - evidence supporting my statement are a lot of my posts being in 'ccea' thread
Of course you did.

WHOAH 'DUNDERHEAD' DAMN, NOW I MUST TELL YOU TO BE 'CALM' AS OBVIOUSLY USING MILDLY OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE IMPLIES THAT YOU'RE FRUSTRATED OR ANGRY RIGHHHT? see where I'm going with this you hypocrite?
"Dunderhead" has a light-hearted meaning. It is almost a term of endearment, certainly no more than patronising - which I freely admit to.

irony about what?
A religious indoctrinate calling a sceptic "a sheep".

Just because I follow a religion it doesn't mean that - it means that you move with the herd even though you don't know why you're moving and where
You have just described religious observance. Have you never heard the expression "Allah Knows Best"?

I know you definitely didn't, but I've spent plenty of time learning about my religion
Let me tell you a story:
Once upon a time there was this Muslim boy called X
Now X didn't know much about Islam but what he was told by his parents -he had only read the Quran once in a language he didn't understand
So when X got a bit older, X started to hear a lot about how bad Islam was and that it was the very reason that everyone suffers in the world
So what X did was, he started to go on (now in reflection) anti Islamic websites to learn about Islam - one such being 'barenakedislam.com'
So when on these extremist websites X thought maybe I'm looking at Islamic criticism from an obviously biased source - I'll go to websites which are more fair and don't condone the mass murder of Muslim children- so X did
And then X started reading about Islam on breitbart, 4chan, etc. - and he though whoa Islam really is bad
But then as X matured a bit more he realized the obvious bias these sites had against Muslims- so he finally decided that he would become an atheist
But then X matured even more, and decided to read the Quran - He though why not, might as well read the actual thing with meaning
That's when X realized how wrong everyone else had been about it- He realized that the Quran was the epitome of logic and moralistic values- he realized that the atheistic notion that 'one should be should be internally good and not because of fear of Hell' was ridiculous - give a homeless starving man an option to steal from others, without repercussions, and then see how 'internally good' he and indeed mandkind is- That's when X realized that Islam isn't necessary a soft lie, but a harsh truth - he realized deterrents are needed, and that charity should also be mandatory. He realized a lot of things and finally decided that he were to become a Muslim again and learn as much about Islam as he can- he decided he should learn Arabic so that he can read the Quran in the original language it was written in, in that way he knew he would truly be able to understand the Quran
And so to this day X continues to learn Islam from the original unaltered source, the Quran in Arabic.
Unfortunately X also sees a lot of false and misleading information online about Islam, that irritates hims because he knows that it is not entirely truthful. He also sees that a lot of Muslims themselves are misguided and have never bothered to read the Quran, which is leading to an atheistic populist movement even in Muslim communities in the Western world. He also noticed how some extremist groups such as ISIS are hypocrites and as much educated about Islam than the next breitbart user, and how perverted and anti Islamic their cause is
So X occasionally uses his common sense and Islamic knowledge to spread a little bit of enlightenment- but X knows it is futile as populist movements and politicians will be able to reach more people than he ever will. So he keeps to himself and tries to ignore every single goddamned post on Muslims
However occasionally X gets tired of seeing the BS posted on these threads and gives in and tries to tell the people not to be sheep
X is me
Cool story bro.
I don't know what those website you mentioned say about Islam because I've never been on them. I get all my knowledge of Islam from the Quran, sunnah, tafsir, and Islamic histories like Ibn Ishaq.

Strange that, despite you claiming to be well educated about Islam, you haven't been able to refute a single one of my points. Why do you think that is?

It actually does, there is only supposed to be 1 version of the Quran, which contains God's unaltered word - so when you say 'version' it is a faux pas on your part
So you think that there is only one version of the Quran available?
Think again. There are at least two different Arabic versions in current use, and the various historical copies show textual differences. And there are dozens of different translations, each differing slightly. However, the essential message is the same - which is why it doesn't matter which "version" you read. (To be strictly accurate, one or two modern translations do actually change the meaning of some passages to make them appear less violent or intolerant)

it's my personal belief that you cannot critique the Quran unless you have read it in Arabic in its entirety - however it's understandable that not everyone can be bothered to learn Arabic - so I suppose the English translation is fine although due to semantics a lot of things in it could be misleading, leading to different translations and therefore versions - which people can used to justify their insincere purpose
Why do you think that Allah revealed his final and perfect guide in a language that cannot be adequately translated? Also, you are implying that only people fluent in Arabic can really understand Islam. Again, seems like a bit of an error by Allah.

I couldn't give less of a crap -unless you have read it in its entirety (preferably in Arabic) and looked at the social, political, biographical, etc. context you're illiterate and unqualified to write about Islam in my eyes
So reading the Quran is no longer enough. Not even reading it with a tafsir, or reading authentic Islamic biographies. It must be read in Arabic?
You have to admit, that's a pretty desperate argument against Islam's critics.

And what's more, it utterly fails as there are plenty of fluent Arabic speakers who are outspoken critics of Islam. Sorry.

That doesn't mean what you think it does (it means if God wills) - another example of your ignorance on Islam and the importance of knowing the Arabic language to learn about it
Yes, that's why I used it.
You told me to be good. I said "if god wills it". It was an ironic sign-off.
You know, under Islam me being "good" or "bad" is entirely down to Allah's will.
The beautiful, extra irony is that in claiming that I don't know what it means, you have demonstrated that you don't know what it really means, as in the implication of saying it after every other sentence. Basically, but saying "Inshallah" all the time means that you accept that you have no free will in the matter. but that's another discussion!

ps: Nice job reporting me buddy -can't handle the fact that you were exposed as the dimwit and charlatan you are? if you try to report this and get me banned I'll just post it with another account- I have a vpn, so they can't block my isp address
I never report anyone. I prefer that stupid, offensive, ill-informed, or whatever, posts stay up so everyone can see them, laugh and point.
Why would I want you banned when I can dismantle your arguments in full view?
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