Diagrams drawn in pencil in further maths/maths exams?

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RickHendricks
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As lot of you doing FM1, and FM2 know that sketches are crucial for the work.

My question is: If i do a sketch in pencil, and write values of it in pencil, will it still be seen by the examiner?
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thotproduct
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I don't think it's as deep as you're making it out here big man

Do your sketches in pencil but anything value related really should be written in pen
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_gcx
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I'm pretty sure they encourage the use of pencils for diagrams, but only diagrams.

I don't think just a sketch would get you any/much credit though, unless specifically requested, it'd be the subsequent calculations that get you the marks. They're mostly for your benefit, not the examiners', so don't worry too much.
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gdunne42
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
As lot of you doing FM1, and FM2 know that sketches are crucial for the work.

My question is: If i do a sketch in pencil, and write values of it in pencil, will it still be seen by the examiner?
Yes. Very fine propelling pencils should be avoided but a normal hardness HB pencil or slightly softer B is fine.
If for any reason the marker can't see your work on their scanned copy then they can request the original is made available for marking.
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RickHendricks
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(Original post by gdunne42)
Yes. Very fine propelling pencils should be avoided but a normal hardness HB pencil or slightly softer B is fine.
If for any reason the marker can't see your work on their scanned copy then they can request the original is made available for marking.
Thanks.

(Original post by thotproduct)
I don't think it's as deep as you're making it out here big man

Do your sketches in pencil but anything value related really should be written in pen
thanks. It's because for FM1 and FM2, I rely heavily on diagrams, and once I've got the correct diagram, I end up getting the right answers, however for questions like circular motion (horizontal), I tend to put the values of acceleration on the diagram in pencil, and it's a habit I can't get out of, since I randomly bring the value of a into my working outs.
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AzureCeleste
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We get told(am a different exam board), to go over all diagrams in pen after its drawn in pencil
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thotproduct
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
Thanks.



thanks. It's because for FM1 and FM2, I rely heavily on diagrams, and once I've got the correct diagram, I end up getting the right answers, however for questions like circular motion (horizontal), I tend to put the values of acceleration on the diagram in pencil, and it's a habit I can't get out of, since I randomly bring the value of a into my working outs.
loooool I like to live life dangerously i scrawl my circular motion circles in pen and most of the time they end up being squares but i still get it right, like i said, if it works it works

also how is my man gonna be doing FM2 with the **** resources is the textbook even out yet
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RickHendricks
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(Original post by thotproduct)
loooool I like to live life dangerously i scrawl my circular motion circles in pen and most of the time they end up being squares but i still get it right, like i said, if it works it works

also how is my man gonna be doing FM2 with the **** resources is the textbook even out yet
Lol, I have no clue.

My teacher gave out class of 4 students his login to the online versions, which I used.

And we taught ourselves year 13 integration + differentiation.
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thotproduct
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
Lol, I have no clue.

My teacher gave out class of 4 students his login to the online versions, which I used.

And we taught ourselves year 13 integration + differentiation.
i can understand that, I know Y13 calculus for single maths but what's FM2 like fam, is it more like M3/M4? We're doing it next year.
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RickHendricks
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(Original post by thotproduct)
i can understand that, I know Y13 calculus for single maths but what's FM2 like fam, is it more like M3/M4? We're doing it next year.
The topics in FM2 that you need for AS are:

Centers of Mass (You can approach it using vector method or taking moments)
Horizontal Circular motion (Banked, and non banked, but no vertical motion or simple harmonic motion)
Variable acceleration (Lots of integration, but still worthwhile)
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thotproduct
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
The topics in FM2 that you need for AS are:

Centers of Mass (You can approach it using vector method or taking moments)
Horizontal Circular motion (Banked, and non banked, but no vertical motion or simple harmonic motion)
Variable acceleration (Lots of integration, but still worthwhile)
Ah, nice bit of overlap, our FMech on OCR A is a bit of a hybrid, we do, at AS

Circular Motion (Horizontal and Vertical)
Work Energy and Power
Collisions, (Restitution etc)
Dimensional Analysis

and the Centre of Mass stuff comes next year, along with the variable force/accel/mass stuff, and the tougher circ/collisions
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RickHendricks
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(Original post by thotproduct)
Ah, nice bit of overlap, our FMech on OCR A is a bit of a hybrid, we do, at AS

Circular Motion (Horizontal and Vertical)
Work Energy and Power
Collisions, (Restitution etc)
Dimensional Analysis

and the Centre of Mass stuff comes next year, along with the variable force/accel/mass stuff, and the tougher circ/collisions
Ah nice.

Almost same us ours, except we don't do vertical motion or the last thing (no clue what it is)

Actually, what is it? Like a rough overview of dimensional analysis?
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999tigger
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
As lot of you doing FM1, and FM2 know that sketches are crucial for the work.

My question is: If i do a sketch in pencil, and write values of it in pencil, will it still be seen by the examiner?
Either is fine.
HB pencil if you are using one.
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thotproduct
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
Ah nice.

Almost same us ours, except we don't do vertical motion or the last thing (no clue what it is)

Actually, what is it? Like a rough overview of dimensional analysis?
Dimensional Analysis, simply put, have you ever had questions in Physics where they want you to check the units of an equation to see if it's 'homogeneous' or not? Or asked to derive something in SI units, kinda like that.

Dimensional Analysis that you'll do basically involves you coming up with different units based on 3 very elementary ones, mass, length, and time, denoted as [M], [L] and [T] respectively, constants have no dimensions obviously as they don't really have anything. You might have various indices etc to try and work out what the powers are etc. Adding two units together makes no difference, but they have to be the same unit, i.e length + length = length, time + time = time, but you can't be out here adding length with time.

An example would be to find units of velocity with dimensional analysis, this is just distance [L], over time [T], giving you LT^-1

Basic example, using dimensional analysis to find units of acceleration, well a is just change in velocity/time. Velocity - Velocity is just Velocity, over time, so LT^-1/T = LT^-2. Force is then just ma, and is then MLT^-2

And you can mix and match and combine things to create loads of other units. At AS, everything you will come up with will be based on those three basic units. It's perhaps the easiest unit you will ever do in FMechanics
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RDKGames
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
Almost same us ours, except we don't do vertical motion or the last thing (no clue what it is)

Actually, what is it? Like a rough overview of dimensional analysis?
Essentially being given two things and analysing their dimensions based on the units used to calculate them. They are said to be dimensionally consistent if they end up with the same dimensions, hence they can be equated. The most common units to work is the mass denoted M (doesnt matter if its kg, grams, tonnes, or whatever, they all represent mass so you use M for all of them), time denoted T, and length denoted L.

Then you can build up the dimensions of other quantities such as force which we know is mass*acceleration. What is acceleration? This is velocity divided by time. What is velocity, that is distance divided by time. What is distance? Well that's just a length quantity. So the dimension of a force is M \times \dfrac{L}{T^2} and we can denote the dimensions for a force by [F] = MLT^{-2}.

Also your algebra is slightly different with these. For example, if I add grams to kilogram, you will still get some weight quantity, but instead of writing M+M = 2M you just leave it as M+M=M. If we add time to some kilograms, then this doesn't really make sense so you cannot simplify T+M.

All in all, it's a decent topic and very important in mechanics and physics. It can be used when working with various units. For example, if you are asked to work out a force and you get an answer, how can you be sure that's a force? Well, check that your answer is dimensionally consistent with a force, so that its dimensions are MLT^{-2}.
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thotproduct
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(Original post by RDKGames)
Essentially being given two things and analysing their dimensions based on the units used to calculate them. They are said to be dimensionally consistent if they end up with the same dimensions, hence they can be equated. The most common units to work is the mass denoted M (doesnt matter if its kg, grams, tonnes, or whatever, they all represent mass so you use M for all of them), time denoted T, and length denoted L.

Then you can build up the dimensions of other quantities such as force which we know is mass*acceleration. What is acceleration? This is velocity divided by time. What is velocity, that is distance divided by time. What is distance? Well that's just a length quantity. So the dimension of a force is M \times \dfrac{L}{T^2} and we can denote the dimensions for a force by [F] = MLT^{-2}.

Also your algebra is slightly different with these. For example, if I add grams to kilogram, you will still get some weight quantity, but instead of writing M+M = 2M you just leave it as M+M=M. If we add time to some kilograms, then this doesn't really make sense so you cannot simplify T+M.

All in all, it's a decent topic and very important in mechanics and physics. It can be used when working with various units. For example, if you are asked to work out a force and you get an answer, how can you be sure that's a force? Well, check that your answer is dimensionally consistent with a force, so that its dimensions are MLT^{-2}.
fam how are you gonna do me like that oof
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RDKGames
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(Original post by thotproduct)
fam how are you gonna do me like that oof
Tbf I started writing that when you didn't post yours but then you did and by that time I had written too much to scrap it
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RickHendricks
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(Original post by RDKGames)
Essentially being given two things and analysing their dimensions based on the units used to calculate them. They are said to be dimensionally consistent if they end up with the same dimensions, hence they can be equated. The most common units to work is the mass denoted M (doesnt matter if its kg, grams, tonnes, or whatever, they all represent mass so you use M for all of them), time denoted T, and length denoted L.

Then you can build up the dimensions of other quantities such as force which we know is mass*acceleration. What is acceleration? This is velocity divided by time. What is velocity, that is distance divided by time. What is distance? Well that's just a length quantity. So the dimension of a force is M \times \dfrac{L}{T^2} and we can denote the dimensions for a force by [F] = MLT^{-2}.

Also your algebra is slightly different with these. For example, if I add grams to kilogram, you will still get some weight quantity, but instead of writing M+M = 2M you just leave it as M+M=M. If we add time to some kilograms, then this doesn't really make sense so you cannot simplify T+M.

All in all, it's a decent topic and very important in mechanics and physics. It can be used when working with various units. For example, if you are asked to work out a force and you get an answer, how can you be sure that's a force? Well, check that your answer is dimensionally consistent with a force, so that its dimensions are MLT^{-2}.
Even after reading yours and thotproduct explanation, as good as they are, only about half of it has gone into my brain.

I get the basics, about representing force in different units, but the second half of the explanation had me spinning on my own axis. It seems so complex and confusing.

I might actually see if it's in the next years mechanics spec, but I'm dropping Further Maths this year.
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RDKGames
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(Original post by RickHendricks)
Even after reading yours and thotproduct explanation, as good as they are, only about half of it has gone into my brain.

I get the basics, about representing force in different units, but the second half of the explanation had me spinning on my own axis. It seems so complex and confusing.
They're not actually that hard to work with. A typical exam question would be 'Joe says <this equation> gives the pressure at some point in time for an object, show that the equation is dimensionally consistent' and then you just calculate units of both sides of the eq. and see if they agree. After covering the theory, it's nothing that advanced

(Original post by RickHendricks)
but I'm dropping Further Maths this year.
Heretic
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RickHendricks
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(Original post by RDKGames)
They're not actually that hard to work with. A typical exam question would be 'Joe says <this equation> gives the pressure at some point in time for an object, show that the equation is dimensionally consistent' and then you just calculate units of both sides of the eq. and see if they agree. After covering the theory, it's nothing that advanced



Heretic
Honestly RDKGames, I know you love Maths (you can't deny it), but unfortunately, Biology had my interest way before, and I'm deciding to do something involving that.
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