More students killing themselves than ever before

Well this sucks. There is a pattern emerging that university students killing themselves is increasing, with 2015 and then 2016 setting new highs (they don't know about 2017 yet). The solution is, strangely, more counselling being available to university students. This seems rather late to me, you shouldn't be letting people you know are at risk get to the point of suicide before getting someone to talk to them.

Humans haven't changed much, but our environment has very drastically recently. University used to set you up with a secure job for life, now it doesn't. University used to be free, now you get tons of debt (I know it's effectively a tax, but 'more tax' is definitely not going to be better for your mental health than 'free'). You didn't use to compare yourself to images of other people's best on social media, now you can. You used to be able to live independently once you graduated, now you're at university giving up on that dream knowing you're going to have to move back home. And more. This stuff doesn't get fixed by talking things through and/or taking pills. It is perfectly rational to be comparing yourself with what you see of your peers, parents and everyone else (though a bit more consideration than just scrolling through instagram/facebook etc would be good).

So why the focus on counselling? Bad stuff happens, people feel bad, bad stuff keeps happening, people feel really bad, people kill themselves. Introducing counselling at the end will lower the number of people killing themselves, but that's not addressing the root of the problem - why are people feeling so bad in the first place?

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Reply 1

HighOnGoofballs

Original post by ThomH97

University used to set you up with a secure job for life, now it doesn't.

If you get a good degree and make some decent life choices, you will literally be fine. The only people struggling to find jobs are the people doing Philosophy, Sociology, Media Studies etc. They're not necessarily bad degrees, it's just that the market is too saturated for them. This comes back to making good life decisions. Look at the job prospects for each degree. Look at what university you're going to. If you decide to go to Manchester Metropolitan to do a History of Art degree and find yourself without a job - you have only yourself to blame. There are so many pathways to getting a job and we should be encouraging people to explore them.

Original post by ThomH97

University used to be free, now you get tons of debt (I know it's effectively a tax, but 'more tax' is definitely not going to be better for your mental health than 'free' :wink:

There is no such thing as 'free' university. The taxpayer used to pay for it. If you want to know why universities are so expensive, ask the government, who guarantee any Tom, D*ck and Harry a student loan allowing Universities to basically charge the max. the amount allowed because they know that students can just get a loan and pay.

Reply 2

bones-mccoy

I don't anyone should be so quick to dismiss medication and counselling as viable forms of help for those suffering with mental illness and/or suicidal thoughts. People will always compare themselves to others, it's how you deal with it that matters.

Reply 3

Dheorl

Original post by HighOnGoofballs

If you get a good degree and make some decent life choices, you will literally be fine.

If only life were that easy...

Reply 4

HighOnGoofballs

Original post by Dheorl

If only life were that easy...

More often that not, it is. What part of what I said did you disagree with and why?

Was it:

Getting a good degree?

or...

Making decent life choices?

Reply 5

Dheorl

Original post by HighOnGoofballs

More often that not, it is. What part of what I said did you disagree with and why?

Was it:

Getting a good degree?

or...

Making decent life choices?

I disagree with that fact that doing those things will necessarily set you up to be just fine.

Reply 6

username2763536

Original post by HighOnGoofballs

More often that not, it is. What part of what I said did you disagree with and why?

Was it:

Getting a good degree?

or...

Making decent life choices?

How about the fact that house prices have risen exponentially whilst earnings have stayed the same? Getting a good degree will never help you to afford a house in london. Yet that is where all the jobs are.Or the fact that university is more expensive here than anywhere-else bar America? I'm sure the fear of wasting 40,000 pounds has nothing to do with why students commit suicide.It's nowhere near as simple as you make out.

Reply 7

Sataris

Counselling scares a lot of people. Say the "wrong" thing and off you to hospital as an involuntary inpatient

Reply 8

username2763536

Original post by RivalPlayer

How many students contribute to their unhappiness by willingly making bad lifestyle choices under the disguise of having fun?
I think this is an important question to ask in a country where "getting wasted" and passing out is proof of a good time.

And you think the students out having fun will be the ones committing suicide do you? I think you'll find you're wrong there. The ones offing themselves will be the loners who never come out of their room or interact with anybody.

Reply 9

HighOnGoofballs

Original post by Dheorl

I disagree with that fact that doing those things will necessarily set you up to be just fine.

Which is why I said 'more often than not'...

...unless you mean to say that more than 50% of the people who get a good degree and make good life choices don't end up being 'just fine' - in which case I'm flustered to see how you came to that conclusion.

Reply 10

HighOnGoofballs

Original post by Robby2312

I addressed why University is so expensive here in another comment on this thread - you should go read it - but to give a summary in case you're not interested, the government, by guaranteeing loans to everyone who applies, has essentially incentivised Universities to always put the max. £9000 amount.

In short, the reason why our universities are so expensive is because of the government both indirectly and directly subsidising higher education.

As for the housing problem, that is much more complex, a problem which I am not qualified to answer in depth, but realise that government has contributed to. The stringent planning restrictions as well as devasting green-belt and upper build limit regulations placed by the government has made it impossible for the private sector to build houses. The can't build outwards and they can't really build upwards, so they're left demolishing and rebuilding in expensive inner city areas - which is, in part, why the housing market is very expensive in the UK.

If the government expanded the green belt and got rid of the upwards build limit you'd see a TONNE of new houses and apartments being built.

I'd the government removed the cap on education and then stop giving student loans, you see a TONNE of people choosing not to get sh*t degrees and use their time more widely, while you would also see a TONNE of people choosing to go into more needed degrees e.g. medicine as universities would be less expensive for people who want to do them since the safety net of government loans has gone.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 11

snowman77

Counselling is useless for most people. You talk to a stranger about your problems. They don't treat you. They don't make you better. All they do is listen while offering zero solutions (or very basic solutions which you already thought about yourself which didn't work).

The theory behind counselling is that by voicing your problems out loud, you find a solution yourself. Essentially, it is all about "helping yourself".

Counselling is like talking to a brick wall and hoping that brick wall will solve your problems. That is how useless it is.

Reply 12

Dheorl

Original post by HighOnGoofballs

Yes, now you have. Initially you hadn't, you said "you will literally be fine" indicating, to me at least, you believe there is no other reason you shouldn't be fine and that it applied to everyone, and that is what I had issue with. If you want to rectify that statement to include "more often then not" then broadly speaking I agree with you. I'm not going to bother to start speculating about the number of people who are "fine" or not though, because there's just to many variables and we'd first have to define what "fine" is, and that just seems like way to much effort.

Reply 13

Dheorl

Original post by HighOnGoofballs

As for the housing problem, that is much more complex, a problem which I am not qualified to answer in depth, but realise that government has contributed to. The stringent planning restrictions as well as devasting green-belt and upper build limit regulations placed by the government has made it impossible for the private sector to build houses. The can't build outwards and they can't really build upwards, so they're left demolishing and rebuilding in expensive inner city areas - which is, in part, why the housing market is very expensive in the UK.

If the government expanded the green belt and got rid of the upwards build limit you'd see a TONNE of new houses and apartments being built.

I find this kind of hard to believe. There are massive areas of used land on the outskirts of my city, from old warehouses etc that have been demolished. They're being built on at a fairly staggering rate tbh, but they've barely made a scratch in the available land. As far as I can see the space is definitely there, so what other reason is there for it not all currently being built on?

Reply 14

Dreamer20

1) bad economy for students

2) social media and smartphones

3) perhaps, unhealthy lifestyle.

the fix (imo):

1) go to uni only for vocational stuff like engineering, comp sci, medical fields, accounting. otherwise consider trades, entrepreneurship, military, aviation industry (pilot school and flight mechanic for example)

2) nokia 3310

3) gym, healthy unprocessed diet, and decent amount of sleep

aaron clarey talks alot about stuff like this. i recommend his youtube channel. he also has a book called 'worthless' which is about picking a good major. though its probably too politically incorrect for most people here

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 15

Dheorl

Original post by Dreamer20

1) go to uni only for vocational stuff like engineering, comp sci, medical fields, accounting. otherwise consider trades, entrepreneurship, military, aviation industry (pilot school and flight mechanic for example)

Do you realise how much "pilot school" costs?

Reply 16

Dreamer20

Original post by Dheorl

Do you realise how much "pilot school" costs?

i imagine about the price of a mortgage. its just an example of one option. not all i said are that expensive...

Reply 17

Dheorl

Original post by Dreamer20

i imagine about the price of a mortgage. its just an example of one option. not all i said are that expensive...

Bit over £100k last I heard. Just an odd choice to include when one of the mains problems is cost of uni. But yes, you did also include cheaper options

Reply 18

Dreamer20

Original post by Dheorl

Bit over £100k last I heard. Just an odd choice to include when one of the mains problems is cost of uni. But yes, you did also include cheaper options

pilots have good career prospects. if you can somehow magically get funding or a loan you have access to a field which pays more than medicine. nowhere near as easy to get as student loans are though.

cost of uni is a problem. but there are some like edinburgh which offer over £7,000/yr scholarships to people from poor background.

Reply 19

cat_mac

Meanwhile my psych said he can’t help me anymore. People are dying because the mental illness care/treatment is dodgy at best. People shouldn’t have to fight to get treatment when they don’t even have the energy to get out of bed, shower, brush their hair. It’s exhausting and i’m not surprised by these stats at all. The NHS should be ashamed.