Graduate entry LLB advice

Original post by JWG-47

Hi everyone,

I have received 5 offers to study Law (senior status) from: Glasgow, York, Leeds, Queen Mary and Kent.

*Note: The Glasgow offer is for Common Law

Now that my final exams for my current degree have finished I have about a month to decide where I would like to study and so far based on location and cost I have narrowed my options down to Glasgow, York and Leeds.

I was hoping that somebody with experience could offer me some advice and guidance, particularly with regards to employer reputation.

I try not to read much into league tables but I am aware that Glasgow is consistently high ranking on the complete university guide - including ranking 2nd in 2019 - however I am concerned that due to its location, firms in England may not regard it as highly as other English universities (in my case Leeds/York).

Does anyone have any insight into how English firms perceive Glasgow Common Law graduates compared to those who studied in England?

Any advice on the matter would be much appreciated.

Imo they are fine, visit them and make your own mind up.

I wouldnt put them second. there are many more English unis ahead of them. I would say they are much of a muchness, although some people might put York above Leeds. I dont think it matters.

Lots of people have an opinion so see what the consensus is and what JSP says as it is their speciality. Not something I would lose sleep over.

Reply 2

JWG-47

OP

2

Original post by 999tigger

Imo they are fine, visit them and make your own mind up.

Thanks for the quick reply and for tagging people with expertise @999tigger :smile:

I have visited all three cities and I'm sure that I'd be happy in either of them. Hopefully getting some better insight might help me to narrow down the choices!

Reply 3

Original post by JWG-47

Thanks for the quick reply and for tagging people with expertise @999tigger :smile:

I have visited all three cities and I'm sure that I'd be happy in either of them. Hopefully getting some better insight might help me to narrow down the choices!

I could, but these questions are all the time and he answer imo not much difference. JSP is a recruiter. Employers are going to be more interested in other things.

Others will offer their opinion in time.
Look at course structure, accommodation and talk to students from there via the law societies.

More curious how Glasgow came second. Tables you should always take with a pinch of salt. Theres a group of elites, good and then better than average unis. This sub forum is littered with repeat posts as to who they are.

Reply 4

York is a bit small for me.
Bit mystified how Glasgow came second.
I havent looked at the courses of these three for a while. Some LLBs are really boring. I mean shockingly so.
I gathered the Op was thinking more in terms of employment.

Dont forget law firms pay travelling expenses.
Plus if a firm visits york and you are at Leeds then they can always fit you in.

Anyway that dreaded answer personal choice and if someone comes up with a stunning answer then it might be interesting to read.

Reply 5

JWG-47

OP

2

Original post by 999tigger

York is a bit small for me.
Bit mystified how Glasgow came second.
I havent looked at the courses of these three for a while. Some LLBs are really boring. I mean shockingly so.
I gathered the Op was thinking more in terms of employment.

Dont forget law firms pay travelling expenses.
Plus if a firm visits york and you are at Leeds then they can always fit you in.

Anyway that dreaded answer personal choice and if someone comes up with a stunning answer then it might be interesting to read.

I was also very surprised to see Glasgow ranking so highly - I am not basing my decision on the CUG, if anything seeing that this week has me trusting the CUG even less!

I'm under the impression that all three are more or less on par in terms of general/academic reputation, my main concern is more about how potential employers would view candidates studying common law in Scotland vs England.

@999tigger is correct that I am thinking more in terms of employment.

You made a good point about being able to visit firms. I appreciate that with this in mind you might recommend QML however I'm doubtful that I could afford the cost of living in London. Fortunately, I do have some family based around London that will make attending interviews/vacation schemes etc more accessible.

I appreciate both of your opinions, hopefully @J-SP will be able to add to what you have already mentioned.

Reply 6

Original post by J-SP

It’s just an opinion, like yours. I can’t really see your rationale either, but I’ll take the opinions of respected academics and employers over some punked up anonymous keyboard warrior.

I do wonder what a legal academic would say about a course at let's say QMUL or Glasgow. A researcher will specialise in a niche field, and they will only be competent to talk about academics in that field but no more. They are quite ill-equipped to rate the overall quality of a rival course or its academics, and them speaking about the quality of academics says little about the quality of the course. QMUL has some brilliant ones, but they hardly teach UG.

I would say the student has a more holistic appreciation of undergrad courses at rival institutions, if that student has done a degree of research. In contrast, the academic has more interesting topics to research.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 7

Original post by J-SP

And yet students on here seem to be better equipped to do the same analysis? 😂

Yeah, I’d like to see Johan’s research on this if you truly believe that.

See my edit.

To be honest, all I say on these threads is "Yeah, they have a lot of commercial specialists" or "They have a noted specialism in legal theory" because that is quite widely known. You can look at the quality of academics teaching the basic topics, such as their publications, but really this is far below the attention of a respected academic.

Reply 8

Not a cripple fight.
Cant see the big deal with visits as I'd prefer an on-site one anyway as you get to see the offices.
I'd guess York is a bit more spenny.

I cant see why course content would make Glasgow any weaker as it is the CL version and QLD.

My thing against York is id think the social life is better and Leeds is much more interesting place to study.
As i said York probably edges, but as they will all tell you ranking isnt something they calculate like that and there are other aspects to your application.

OP I believe we are all saying much of a muchness, although they are all perfectly fine or slightly above average.

Reply 9

Original post by 999tigger

cant see why course content would make Glasgow any weaker as it is the CL version and QLD.

Because money doesn't grow and trees and resources are finite. Glasgow is going to have fewer common law specialists than an exclusively common law school. They have these specialists merely to teach and attract business from the English schools, which suggests they are far from premier.

Just look at this: one mush to do two of the common law modules. And his research is cyber crimes, lost decent publication was in 2012 and in CLR (standard, but nowt flashy. Where's the MLR?!) And they only have a few academic staff to begin with (see), so they can't exactly afford to get a bunch of English specialists in.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 10

Original post by Notoriety

Because money doesn't grow and trees and resources are finite. Glasgow is going to have fewer common law specialists than an exclusively common law school. They have these specialists merely to teach and attract business from the English schools, which suggests they are far from premier.

Thought he just wanted a law degree. It must be the weather, but am sandwiched between this thread which is meh and another meh thread.

I will just agree to disagree with you.

Reply 11

Original post by 999tigger

Thought he just wanted a law degree. It must be the weather, but am sandwiched between this thread which is meh and another meh thread.

I will just agree to disagree with you.

Well, ask yourself "why would a school which does Scots law do poorly should it decide to teach English law?" Answer strikes me as kinda obvious.

Reply 12

Original post by Notoriety

Well, ask yourself "why would a school which does Scots law do poorly should it decide to teach English law?" Answer strikes me as kinda obvious.

Honestly I have stated which Uni I think I'd choose.
I've stated what I think the ranking is.
I've said how the OP could find out more information.

I think that's enough.

Tell the OP.

I so hate these knobwaving threads.

Reply 13

Original post by 999tigger

Honestly I have stated which Uni I think I'd choose.
I've stated what I think the ranking is.
I've said how the OP could find out more information.

I think that's enough.

Tell the OP.

I so hate these knobwaving threads.

It was John and J-SP going at it. I am just commenting to add what little I think has been unsaid. I think trying to leave the thread smoothly, while I do not begrudge you this, is quite harmful if you do so on the premise of "it is arguable".

It isn't. Glasgow teaches Scots law and has only a handful of English specialists there, and the ones they have are crap. If you want an excellent education in English contract, tort, land law, trusts -- Glasgow is not the place for you. If you want a tick box education, just do the GDL. EU and all the other modules are the same as the Scots people sit, and they are pretty decent.

Reply 14

Original post by J-SP

Where would you suggest people study if they want dual qualifying degree (Scottish and English)?

Not Glasgow because their common law degree is only good for England.

https://www.gla.ac.uk/undergraduate/degrees/commonlaw/

The programme is approved as a Qualifying Law Degree by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) in England & Wales. It is not an approved pathway to legal practice in Scotland.

Reply 15

Original post by J-SP

Can they not to the Scottish law degree with the English modules as options? That’s what used to happen with the Scots I recruited anyway.

I guess you could for the full LLB, but not the grad one over two years cos you have no electives with it.

Reply 16

Original post by J-SP

Only seen UG LLBers do it to be fair. I can understand why someone would go for one of the Scottish unis that have the English modules options (at UG level). It provides much more flexibility if you don’t know which jurisdiction you want to qualify into. Transferring to the Scottish system with an English law degree is more complicated, so many English law degrees will be eliminated when people make choices, especially if you don’t have to pay for your degree in Scotland but do in England too.

Yeah, it is a clever route to dually satisfy the education stage. I wouldn't do it myself, just because the electives were the modules I enjoyed and I wouldn't like to throw all of them away by doing 4 (?) modules twice (which have slightly different rules here and there). If your personal circumstances are such that you're not sure where your fam are going to be in 4 years' time or something along those lines, then I can see the expedience of this route. As I said, the Scots part of the school is pretty top tier.

Reply 17

colgate13

7

Did you apply for the MA at Bristol? It doesn't use UCAS for the application. Speaking as a Glaswegian, Bristol is probably a better choice than those five.

Reply 18

Original post by J-SP

Exactly - the rankings are not going to be based purely on the English legal academic modules, which is why I personally feel unis like Glasgow are underestimated. English law is far more globally portable though, so I get why people think it’s better.

Being conversant in civil principles is hugely useful for an international commercial specialist, imo, and academics in that field. Some English schools have a Roman Law module, but it is not as sustained as a full course in civil law (barring those which involve Maitrise). I don't think people are looking that far ahead, mind! For most, I think it would be quite a boring educational experience.

At least with French law it is hugely different, and you get to study the French language and spend a year in Paris.

Reply 19