Should military uniforms be worn in public? Watch

Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#21
Report 10 years ago
#21
(Original post by halátnost)
personally I don't see why they would wear them outside of "office" hours, the rest of us don't wear our work uniforms outside of our work,
I wear my work clothes on my way to and from work, so do most people. Do you get changed before and after every shift?
0
quote
reply
Alasdair
Badges: 13
#22
Report 10 years ago
#22
(Original post by Renal)
You think that abusing someone (not that I think you would) because the clothes they wear identifying them as a member of a particular group is silly?
Identifying them as a representative of an institution they chose to join.

The point you're trying to make is that there's no difference between wearing a uniform and wearing, say, a yarmulka. But I'm sure you can see that there's a world of difference between a faith or culture, and the Army.
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#23
Report 10 years ago
#23
(Original post by alasdair_R)
Identifying them as a representative of an institution they chose to join.
Religion isn't a free choice? :eek:

The point you're trying to make is that there's no difference between wearing a uniform and wearing, say, a yarmulka. But I'm sure you can see that there's a world of difference between a faith or culture, and the Army.
I'm trying to say that there's little difference between being abused because you're wearing a yarmulka and being abused because you're wearing a uniform.

Now, in my opinion, instead of telling them not to wear uniform outside the the RAFP really should have done some aggressive patrolling and put a stop to this nonsense - abusing anyone really isn't on.
0
quote
reply
halátnost
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#24
Report 10 years ago
#24
(Original post by Renal)
I wear my work clothes on my way to and from work, so do most people. Do you get changed before and after every shift?

No I don't, & I don't have a problem with to/from home. I just think that on the whole it should be guidance not to wear the uniform outside of the army, in free time say. For a start because the personnel should be individuals outside of the army, & it is a little bit intimidating and uncomfortable to think they live, sleep, eat army...and I'm sure the army's reputation has been dragged thru the mud a bit when personnel wearing their uniform manage to **** up in society. It's like going around wearing a school uniform outside of school. If those kids were to behave badly in town, it would reflect negatively on the school itself. People should be able to have separate identities from their school/professional identity.

Also, again, it just sets apart 'Army' from civilians if they were to do their Saturday shop in khakis.

I don't think wearing an army uniform is all that comparable to a yamulka, because religion & work v different disciplines. One could work for a company and not be happy/committed to that company or profession, and wear the uniform almost under duress. Generally, with religion it is a much freer choice & the indiviual is choosing to convey this choice to wider society. as opposed to say, if you were wearing an Asda polo shirt on the bus home. not quite the same thing.
0
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#25
Report 10 years ago
#25
(Original post by halátnost)
No I don't, & I don't have a problem with to/from home. I just think that on the whole it should be guidance not to wear the uniform outside of the army,
Hands up if you don't understand the discussion.

For a start because the personnel should be individuals outside of the army, & it is a little bit intimidating and uncomfortable to think they live, sleep, eat army...and I'm sure the army's reputation has been dragged thru the mud a bit when personnel wearing their uniform manage to **** up in society. It's like going around wearing a school uniform outside of school. If those kids were to behave badly in town, it would reflect negatively on the school itself. People should be able to have separate identities from their school/professional identity.
Right.
1. The problem is not that RAF guys are behaving badly, it's that people are behaving badly towards them.
2. Schools don't ask pupils to hide their uniform on the way to or from school.
3. Military personnel are individuals regardless of whether they are in or out of uniform. In the same way that a McDrone is an individual regardless of whether they're wearing their badge with stars on or not.
4. Your comments are not only well clear of the discussion, they're also bordering on the prejudiced and offensive.

Also, again, it just sets apart 'Army' from civilians if they were to do their Saturday shop in khakis.
1. Many people in the military work on Saturdays. It's shift work, not a 9-5.
2. Many people do shopping on their way home from work.

I don't think wearing an army uniform is all that comparable to a yamulka, because religion & work v different disciplines. One could work for a company and not be happy/committed to that company or profession, and wear the uniform almost under duress. Generally, with religion it is a much freer choice & the indiviual is choosing to convey this choice to wider society. as opposed to say, if you were wearing an Asda polo shirt on the bus home. not quite the same thing.
You're implying that people wearing religious dress should complain less when they are abused for it because it's their choice?
0
quote
reply
halátnost
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#26
Report 10 years ago
#26
(Original post by Renal)
Hands up if you don't understand the discussion.

Right.
1. The problem is not that RAF guys are behaving badly, it's that people are behaving badly towards them.
2. Schools don't ask pupils to hide their uniform on the way to or from school.
3. Military personnel are individuals regardless of whether they are in or out of uniform. In the same way that a McDrone is an individual regardless of whether they're wearing their badge with stars on or not.
4. Your comments are not only well clear of the discussion, they're also bordering on the prejudiced and offensive.


1. Many people in the military work on Saturdays. It's shift work, not a 9-5.
2. Many people do shopping on their way home from work.

You're implying that people wearing religious dress should complain less when they are abused for it because it's their choice?

Oh Christ.

sorry, if my post was not pedanticly coherent enough for u, i happen to have a head the size of the elephant man, full of cold. (as a medic, i'm sure u will empathise a little).

i do understand the discussion, it's hardly a taxing one.


1. The problem is not that RAF guys are behaving badly, it's that people are behaving badly towards them.

Yes, i know this, thank u. but you can't just focus on this one aspect of the debate. my argument is that when uniform is worn outside hours it not only leads to the undeserving abuse of army personnel, it can also lead to some misbehaving personnel tarnishing the reputation of the army. "the problem" as u put it, is not one sided. think outside of the box. both of these issues could be eliminated if army personnel avoided wearing uniform outside of necessity.


2. Schools don't ask pupils to hide their uniform on the way to or from school.
Yes, but they do not wear it outside of school hours, apart from on the way to or from home. You clearly have not read my post, or at least, have not read my post clearly. I said, I didn't have a problem with army personnel wearing their uniform to/from home. So, what point are u making? I am making the point that A, who works in the military, and who does not wear his uniform out of hours will not be subject to undeserving and abuse and will not be in danger of damaging the rep of the military should he be involved in an altercation. Ditto. School kids wearing their uniform outside of school hours can not be abused by a rival school and tarnish the rep of their school by misbehaving out of hours.

3. Military personnel are individuals regardless of whether they are in or out of uniform. In the same way that a McDrone is an individual regardless of whether they're wearing their badge with stars on or not.
Says he who refers to them as a McDrone.


4. Your comments are not only well clear of the discussion, they're also bordering on the prejudiced and offensive.
Erm.....................????


1. Many people in the military work on Saturdays. It's shift work, not a 9-5.
2. Many people do shopping on their way home from work.

Oh my God. Way to take everything literally. Don't be such a pedant. I'm talking about people going about their everday life, those were examples I used. If A. Army Officer does his shop on a Thursday then, I would not expect him to get up in the morning, shower, change into his khakis to go to Tesco.
0
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#27
Report 10 years ago
#27
i do understand the discussion, it's hardly a taxing one.
Identifying the difference between the three services appears to tax you.

Yes, but they do not wear it outside of school hours, apart from on the way to or from home. You clearly have not read my post, or at least, have not read my post clearly. I said, I didn't have a problem with army personnel wearing their uniform to/from home.
So what's the problem? Are you imagining that these guys are dressing up in their uniforms to go shopping? Is this the same way that you imagine that RAF personnel cannot help but embarrass themselves and the air force whenever they leave base? Is that the basis of your argument?



On a side note;
it can also lead to some misbehaving personnel tarnishing the reputation of the army.
The pongos seem to do more damage when they're not wearing uniform.
0
quote
reply
halátnost
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#28
Report 10 years ago
#28
(Original post by Renal)
Identifying the difference between the three services appears to tax you.

So what's the problem? Are you imagining that these guys are dressing up in their uniforms to go shopping? Is this the same way that you imagine that RAF personnel cannot help but embarrass themselves and the air force whenever they leave base? Is that the basis of your argument?



On a side note;
The pongos seem to do more damage when they're not wearing uniform.

sigh. :rolleyes: no, i am sure the majority of military personnel are v well behaved in their civilian life. did i really have to state that disclaimer? tbh, it appears to be u making the somewhat offensive suggestion that i would believe it of all of them. why jump to the conclusion that i think all personnel are capable of misbehaviour? i thought it a given that u could assume i refer to the exception to the rule.

& i am sure most RAF members wear their uniform when in the RAF, on the way to/from home. and that is it. jesus, i dont even have particularly strong views about this as i said in my initial post, i merely said i wouldnt encourage them to wear it recreationally IE. on a weekend (read: free time), doing everyday activities (such as: shopping). it's not difficult to understand for god's sake.

and yes, i am sweeping all aspects of the military under the one, uncorrect term 'army'. im tired and this is an internet forum not a finals exam.
0
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#29
Report 10 years ago
#29
(Original post by halátnost)
i wouldnt encourage them to wear it recreationally IE. on a weekend (read: free time), doing everyday activities (such as: shopping). it's not difficult to understand for god's sake.
There's never been any suggestion that anybody does. For god's sake.
0
quote
reply
halátnost
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#30
Report 10 years ago
#30
Physician, heal thyself. You are a pain in the arse.

(Original post by Renal)
There's never been any suggestion that anybody does. For god's sake.

exactly. which is why there was no need for you to create this huge argument with your 1,2,3,4 etc points out of what was a preliminiary assertion!


(for God's sake).
0
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#31
Report 10 years ago
#31
(Original post by halátnost)
exactly. which is why there was no need for you to create this huge argument
If that is the case, why was it brought up in the first place?

And why, in your view, should the RAF change to accommodate this minority anyway?
0
quote
reply
halátnost
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#32
Report 10 years ago
#32
(Original post by Renal)
If that is the case, why was it brought up in the first place?

And why, in your view, should the RAF change to accommodate this minority anyway?

I don't think they should change. I see no problem with them wearing their uniform on their way home, going to tesco in uniform, on their way home.

But this whole argument is down to the fact that the RAF have been banned from wearing their uniforms "off duty", and my point was that well, yes, I would advise them not to wear it 'off duty' because I can't see the need. (on the way home does not count as off duty, for me).


for example, from the guardian:

The news that RAF personnel have been subjected to abuse while wearing their uniforms off-duty has prompted outrage.

The airmen, from RAF Wittering, near Peterborough, have been banned by the station commander from wearing their military clothes away from the base because of the negative response they received.

They were targeted "because of their involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan", says the Times.

The Mail calls the abuse "despicable", while the Express describes the perpetrators as "beneath contempt".

Gordon Brown and his defence secretary, Des Browne, have expressed their anger. The prime minister says members of the armed forces should be encouraged to wear their uniforms in public. He apparently favours such a policy as a way of bringing the military and the public closer together.

Service personnel wear their uniforms off-duty in the US but the practice was banned for many years in Britain because of the threat posed by the IRA.

Islamic extremists were recently jailed for a plot to kidnap and behead a British soldier.

Do you think soldiers will become targets if they wear their uniforms in public? Would service personnel wearing their uniforms off-duty really foster respect and make a difference to the public perception of them?

For that matter, what is the public perception of our troops?

Even if you disagree with the battles they are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, they are risking their lives every day and isn't it unfair to blame them for the decisions to go to war?
Clearly the debate isn't just about to/from home.


Is all this angst because your scrubs are comfy, and actually, you'd quite like to be able to pull them off on a weekend?? I have nothing against scrubs-wearing at weekends.
0
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#33
Report 10 years ago
#33
(Original post by halátnost)
would advise them not to wear it 'off duty' because I can't see the need. (on the way home does not count as off duty, for me).
Technically, it is off duty. In the same way that you're not at work when you're commuting to and from.


Clearly the debate isn't just about to/from home.
Isn't it?


Is all this angst because your scrubs are comfy, and actually, you'd quite like to be able to pull them off on a weekend??
Been there, done that. Terrorised the public.
0
quote
reply
halátnost
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#34
Report 10 years ago
#34
(Original post by Renal)
Technically, it is off duty. In the same way that you're not at work when you're commuting to and from.


Isn't it?


Been there, done that. Terrorised the public.

haha. sounds excellent. When i was on a forensics course & we finished literally about two minutes from my house. i was tired & couldn't be bothered taking the disposable suit off for the walk...man was that a mistake. i might as well have been wearing a carrier bag with the slogan: "Someone has been murdered near to your home" on it.

yeah, i know (about the RAF) it is technically off duty, but i mean it's either side of duty, as it were.

Yes, it is about wearing it full time. See the passage quoted above and the prime minister's assertion that they should wear it off duty too. i don't think they mean just catching the Arriva home, but as a consistency off duty. unless i am mistaken. (although it's v possible that the original abused in cambridgeshire where only wearing it to travel to/from base).
0
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#35
Report 10 years ago
#35
(Original post by halátnost)
Yes, it is about wearing it full time. See the passage quoted above and the prime minister's assertion that they should wear it off duty too. i don't think they mean just catching the Arriva home, but as a consistency off duty. unless i am mistaken. (although it's v possible that the original abused in cambridgeshire where only wearing it to travel to/from base).
Hahaha. Have a read on Arrse what soldiers think to wearing their kit off duty like that.

(Will have a look for the thread in a minute)
0
quote
reply
InArduisFouette
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#36
Report 10 years ago
#36
(Original post by Ellie1989)
why do they NEED to wear them ? thats the only reason i have anything wrong with it. its sort of an intimidation thing. they dont have any need for that specific outfit other than to seperate themselves and appear more intimidating
ok

a little history for the ignorant self absorbed youth that inhabit TSR

when the Irish 'Republican' terrorist threat was a real serious , clear and present danger in mainland GB military personnel were required not to wear uniform in public places unless on duty this included for example travelling between sites in civilian vehicles and commuting to and from work ...

stoppng for petrol or to buy a pint of milk on the way to / from work could be a serious (internal ) disciplinary matter during that period if you got 'caught'

even up until a few years ago you were still required to cover uniform with a fleece or coat if travelling in private or 'white fleet' vehicles ...

the public had become completely not used to seeing military personnel travelling to and from work in uniform, compare this to nearly any other job where commuting in uniform is an accepted and normal part of daily
0
quote
reply
alanmcg
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#37
Report 10 years ago
#37
That's up to the military, but essentially yes. I'm allowed to wear whatever I like as long as it's decent, why shouldn't they be?

I don't think it's wise to force them either way. If they're getting abuse for wearing their uniforms then clearly it's up to the Police to do something about it. Abuse is unacceptable regardless of their being representatives of the military.

Don't get me wrong, I feel no urge to go out and support them, they chose to get paid money for killing people, that's their job, they're not conscripts. I certainly wouldn't hold any higher respect for them than for doctors, nurses, paramedics, fire fighters and other people with difficult jobs. But nobody should be randomly abused by members of the public when they go out.
0
quote
reply
Ellie1989
Badges: 0
#38
Report 10 years ago
#38
zippyRN im not ignorant or self absorbed thank you very much. dont try and patronise me. if you read all my posts you'd know what i ment. im not talking about to and from work and im talking about wearing the uniform outside of work for no aparent reason. why do threads have to turn into arguments so much with people insulting others. theres some patronising people on here, i swear. also, youth? the STUDENT room usually means students and im 19 in a few months, so i question your age
0
quote
reply
Renal
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#39
Report 10 years ago
#39
(Original post by Ellie1989)
im 19 in a few months, so i question your age
18 is very young, especially compared to Zippy, who's a miserable old bugger at the best of times.
0
quote
reply
Ducki
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#40
Report 10 years ago
#40
(Original post by Ellie1989)
zippyRN im not ignorant or self absorbed thank you very much. dont try and patronise me. if you read all my posts you'd know what i ment. im not talking about to and from work and im talking about wearing the uniform outside of work for no aparent reason. why do threads have to turn into arguments so much with people insulting others. theres some patronising people on here, i swear. also, youth? the STUDENT room usually means students and im 19 in a few months, so i question your age
PPRuNe is the Professional Pilots Rumour Network, but I doubt 90% of the people on there are pilots.

Just because a forum is named the TSR, doesn't mean it is exclusively for students, but intended to be used by students, but can be used by anyone.

And Ellie, you clearly are ignorant and self absorbed. I reference your quoted post as evidence.
0
quote
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Were you ever put in isolation at school?

Yes (162)
26.87%
No (441)
73.13%

Watched Threads

View All