Questions for UK Doctors on hours, various specialties and private work.

I'm really looking forward to a career in medicine, however I'd like to clear up the topic of hours and holidays etc. I seem to find different information. So can someone take me through each stage of a medical career and walk me through hours worked but also the times for those hours eg 9-5pm etc, at junior doctor, registrar and consultant level. Also what duration of holidays am I looking at and when in the year?
I would also appreciate some information on the various specialities, which ones have better hours than others and better work-life balance. Finally I would like some information on private work in the UK, is it easy to come by, in which specialities is private work limited/non-existent and also what sort of money can be realistically earnt through private work while still maintaining a decent work-life balance?Sorry for a lot of questions but any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Reply 1

Anonymous #1

medicine

work-life balance?

i think you have to pick one

Reply 2

Smile88egc

15

Ok so starting with foundation training, you can expect to do 6 x 4 month rotations, either all in hospital or 5 in hospital and 1 in general practice.
Most of these you will work 44-48 hours a week on average (some up to 72 hours in a week, some less).
Typically you would do a set on night shifts (3 or 4 in a row) every 3-4 weeks. You can expect to work between 1 in 2 and 1 in 4 weekends (1 in 6 if you are lucky in some rotations).
Pay consists of a basic salary of £26.6k in F1 and £30.8k in F2 for your basic 40 hours. On top of that you get paid a supplement for hours you work at night, any extra hours above 40/week, and the frequency with which you work weekends, typically these can boost your take home pay by up to a third depending on how onerous your rota is.
You get 25 days of leave as a foundation doctor plus extra days in lieu for any bank holidays you work, you have to spread the leave evenly throughout your 3 jobs/year.
All doctors in training are classed as Junior Doctors, and if you are yet to graduate you can expect your terms to be as per the 2016 terms and conditions for junior doctors if working in England and as per the 2002 terms and conditions for Wales, Scotland and NI.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 3

nexttime

22

Original post by hutchy134

So can someone take me through each stage of a medical career and walk me through hours worked but also the times for those hours eg 9-5pm etc, at junior doctor, registrar and consultant level.

The above is accurate. 44-48 hours per week is about average for most jobs in the foundations years and above. Things like mandatory exams, audits etc are generally in addition to that.

Its pretty universal that you will be working regular nights and weekends whilst junior. Once you get into speciality training it gets more variable - things like A&E will have very very regular out of hours, things like pathology and dermatology not so much.

Also what duration of holidays am I looking at and when in the year?

25 as stated. However, bear in mind you can't just take it when you want as it depends on staffing, and that in most jobs its a significant challenge to actually be able to put together an uninterrupted week off, let alone any longer. If you want to do something that will take more than a week, you may well have to take a year out of work, as crazy as that sounds. Working as a doctor is extremely inflexible.

On the other hand, years out of work are actually easy to take. More than 50% of doctors take a year out after the Foundation Years.

I would also appreciate some information on the various specialities, which ones have better hours than others and better work-life balance.

You'll learn that through placement at med school. Things are kind of changing atm as more and more specialities get pulled into acute medicine forcing trainees to do more and more out of hours work. GP is changing a lot too.

Finally I would like some information on private work in the UK, is it easy to come by, in which specialities is private work limited/non-existent and also what sort of money can be realistically earnt through private work while still maintaining a decent work-life balance?Sorry for a lot of questions but any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Some specialities are better than others yes. Things like ortho and plastics are generally more private than e.g. A&E or acute med. But again, things are kind of changing. Private GPs are a lot more common, as are things like Push Doctor. Maybe things will be different in the future.

Original post by Smile88egc

...typically these can boost your take home pay by up to a third depending on how onerous your rota is.

Whilst technically true, i feel compelled to point out that literally no one will actually get a full extra third for the whole year. A much more average figure would be 15-20% in supplements i.e. about the £31-32k mark.

Frustratingly, you generally can't tell exactly what your pay will be until a couple of weeks before actually starting. This can get important when e.g. applying for mortgages/rental agreements.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 4

navarre

20

Original post by Smile88egc

Ok so starting with foundation training, you can expect to do 6 x 4 month rotations, either all in hospital or 5 in hospital and 1 in general practice.
Most of these you will work 44-48 hours a week on average (some up to 72 hours in a week, some less).
Typically you would do a set on night shifts (3 or 4 in a row) every 3-4 weeks. You can expect to work between 1 in 2 and 1 in 4 weekends (1 in 6 if you are lucky in some rotations).
Pay consists of a basic salary of £26.6k in F1 and £30.8k in F2 for your basic 40 hours. On top of that you get paid a supplement for hours you work at night, any extra hours above 40/week, and the frequency with which you work weekends, typically these can boost your take home pay by up to a third depending on how onerous your rota is.
You get 25 days of leave as a foundation doctor plus extra days in lieu for any bank holidays you work, you have to spread the leave evenly throughout your 3 jobs/year.
All doctors in training are classed as Junior Doctors, and if you are yet to graduate you can expect your terms to be as per the 2016 terms and conditions for junior doctors if working in England and as per the 2002 terms and conditions for Wales, Scotland and NI.

Mostly true, excepting the days holiday. F1s are entitled to 27 days leave, increasing to 32 after 5 years of NHS continuous service.

Reply 5

Smile88egc

15

Yes sorry my mistake it is 27!
But the 5 years service for 32 days doesn't have to be continuous...

Reply 6

hutchy134

OP

4

How scattered do those 27 days tend to be?

Reply 7

Ghotay

13

Original post by hutchy134

How scattered do those 27 days tend to be?

The leave doesn't carry over between jobs, so it will always be spread through the year. So in foundation you will get 9 days per block. In combination with your 'off' days you may be able to string together 12 days off in a row (I have this on my current job), but that would be about the max.

What you actually get will depend on the staffing, rota, and rota coordinators of each individual job, which will change every 4 months for foundation, then every 4-6 months for the next 2-3 years of core training. And remember you may not get your rota until as little as a week ebfore starting a job, and leave is allocated first-come-first-served typically. So getting leave when you want it, and planning things in advance can be absurdly difficult. You even hear horror stories about people not getting time off to attend their own weddings.

Reply 8

hutchy134

OP

4

So is getting married between final year medical school and fy1 a good idea! haha

Reply 9

Helenia

20

Original post by hutchy134

So is getting married between final year medical school and fy1 a good idea! haha

Depends if you have found someone you want to marry and are able to pay for a wedding at that point!

Reply 10

Chief Wiggum

20

Original post by hutchy134

I'm really looking forward to a career in medicine, however I'd like to clear up the topic of hours and holidays etc. I seem to find different information. So can someone take me through each stage of a medical career and walk me through hours worked but also the times for those hours eg 9-5pm etc, at junior doctor, registrar and consultant level. Also what duration of holidays am I looking at and when in the year?
I would also appreciate some information on the various specialities, which ones have better hours than others and better work-life balance. Finally I would like some information on private work in the UK, is it easy to come by, in which specialities is private work limited/non-existent and also what sort of money can be realistically earnt through private work while still maintaining a decent work-life balance?Sorry for a lot of questions but any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Out of date info on private practice earnings here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442143/table/tbl3/

I think the figures are from around 2003 (although the paper was published later). So take inflation into account.

Questions for UK Doctors on hours, various specialties and private work.

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