How hard are degrees... Watch

apotoftea
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#41
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#41
(Original post by kftjkp)
Also 30-39% are a compensatable fail (i.e no need for a re-sit if you get that in a non-core module and you have relatively high average).
Depends on the university - get under 40% at mine and you automatically have to re-sit. Saying that, re-sit marks are capped at 40% so even if you write to the level of say a 65, you still only get 40.
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FadeToBlackout
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#42
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Sorry, what's a "module"? :p:
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dans
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#43
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A module is the individual units that you have to sit. Like at A level, you must sit 6 units, well at uni they are called modules.
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FadeToBlackout
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#44
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(Original post by dans)
A module is the individual units that you have to sit. Like at A level, you must sit 6 units, well at uni they are called modules.
I know- I was making the somewhat sarcastic point that my degrees method of assessment hasn't changed since the 1930s- no modules for me! Not every uni degree is modular, some still depend almost entirely on the Dreaded Finals!

Edit: Great, I've managed to scare myself back into dissertation work through thinking about Finals. Great.....
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dans
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#45
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Oh right, sorry, do not often come in this forum so am still unsure as to where people study etc.
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djhworld
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#46
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(Original post by dans)
Mine is 1% higher than yours in all classes, so:

1st = >70%
2.1 = > 60%

etc...
Sorry I think you misunderstood my notation (I'm a compsci student).

1st >= 70% (greater than or equal to 70, or can be noted as >69)
2:1 >= 60% (greater than or equal to 60, or can be noted as >59)
2:2 >= 50% (greater than or equal to 50, or can be noted as >49)
3rd >= 40% (greater than or equal to 40, or can be noted as >39)
Fail =< 39 (Less than or equal to 39, or can be noted as < 39)
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subterfuge
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#47
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i've found my degree much harder than A levels. I got 4As at A level (reasonably high marks rather than just scraping it), but i only managed a 2.2 in my first year of physics at uni.

My workload is higher than at A level too. Most science subjects involve as many hours in lectures/labs a week as i did at 6th form, at least in first & 2nd year when there's lots of core modules & laying down the basics.
Arts subjects seem a bit more less intensive unless you choose to put loads of work in. I did a philosophy module in first year and found the amount of effort to get a 2.1 in that far less than the amount of effort to get a 3rd in physics modules.


back to your debate...
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kftjkp
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#48
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I think the majority of artsy people would disagree with that but I can see where you are coming from. The sciences do seem a lot more labour intensive, whereas you can get by quite well turning up to lectures and doing the set reading (which probably amounts to the same time that you spend in lectures and labs).
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Wez
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#49
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As an art student I consider facebook a way of enhancing my societal knowledge; it aids me in drawing comparisons between present and past societal norms. Thus I probably spend more time developing my historical abilities than most science students spend working.
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subterfuge
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#50
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(Original post by kftjkp)
I think the majority of artsy people would disagree with that but I can see where you are coming from. The sciences do seem a lot more labour intensive, whereas you can get by quite well turning up to lectures and doing the set reading (which probably amounts to the same time that you spend in lectures and labs).
I was expecting some disagreement... I've not done an entire arts degree (or a whole science one for that matter...) so i'm not as clued up as i could be!

Before anyone else brings it up, i'm very much aware that it's night on impossible to get over 85% in an arts essay.
In that way, its probably easier for a very very good & hardworking science student to get a mark in the 90s than it is for an arts student of similar ability.
It just seems, from my limited experience, that it takes a lot more hours work to get a mediocre (let's say 2.2) mark in a science module than it takes in an arts module.


shame i can't pass off browsing facebook as work... i'm jealous! :p:
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#51
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(Original post by RJ555)
In comparison with A-Levels? Im just interested to know really.

Ive always had in my head that its something like this:

1:1 - A+ (at alevel)
2:1 - A-B
2:2 - B
Third - B-C

Im probably being a tad naive, and I know it depends on the persons interest for the subject, the particular course etc but i just wanted a general idea. Enlighten me! :p:

Haha, no, just...no. Almost everyone studying my subject at my university has A Levels at a ridiculously high level (we're talking majority having 90-100% in the subject I do) and yet 90-95% of those will go on to get a 2.1. 2-3% will get a first, and the rest will get 2.2s/3rds/degrade. And we probably work harder than students at any other university in our subject - the workload is huge, and are supposedly the most 'passionate'.

Getting a first is much, much harder than you imagine.
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#52
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#52
(Original post by kftjkp)
I think the majority of artsy people would disagree with that but I can see where you are coming from. The sciences do seem a lot more labour intensive, whereas you can get by quite well turning up to lectures and doing the set reading (which probably amounts to the same time that you spend in lectures and labs).
I'd propose that it's much, much easier to turn up to science lectures, practicals etc and coast through than it is to coast through the dreaded weekly essay. I have to force myself to go to the library, spend 20-30 hours reading and making notes, then plan and write the essay. Science students just have to rock up at their scheduled time, do whatever someone tells them to do and then go home. It requires much more self-discipline to sit in the library at 1am making notes when your science mates are out getting lashed, simply because you've got an essay due in.
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alispam
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#53
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(Original post by CamRob)
I'd propose that it's much, much easier to turn up to science lectures, practicals etc and coast through than it is to coast through the dreaded weekly essay. I have to force myself to go to the library, spend 20-30 hours reading and making notes, then plan and write the essay. Science students just have to rock up at their scheduled time, do whatever someone tells them to do and then go home. It requires much more self-discipline to sit in the library at 1am making notes when your science mates are out getting lashed, simply because you've got an essay due in.
umm science students have essays too. i have a weekly essay which is normally about 8000 words which i have to spend hours reading and planning for. as well as this science students do have to do a lot of reading and note taking outside of lectures.
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FadeToBlackout
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#54
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#54
(Original post by alispam)
umm science students have essays too. i have a weekly essay which is normally about 8000 words which i have to spend hours reading and planning for. as well as this science students do have to do a lot of reading and note taking outside of lectures.
How much, though? CamRob and I are (supposed!) to spend 30-40 hours on our weekly essays. Or, at least, I was because I did my LAST EVER weekly essay last week :proud: (He'll hate me for that...)

8,000 words seems a lot; that's half my dissertation, every week.

I also tend to dispute "essay" with Science students. An essay is a long answer that argues a particular point of view against other points of view, in my opinion. Science tends to be a lot more black and white, in my experience. I know it's not completely like this- I've had replies on the forum here that dispute that- but I'd say it's a lot mroe black and white, and fact-based, than history; Science "essays" are based upon reporting facts, History essays upon interpreting "facts" and arguing the interpretation.

(Original post by CamRob)
I'd propose that it's much, much easier to turn up to science lectures, practicals etc and coast through than it is to coast through the dreaded weekly essay. I have to force myself to go to the library, spend 20-30 hours reading and making notes, then plan and write the essay. Science students just have to rock up at their scheduled time, do whatever someone tells them to do and then go home. It requires much more self-discipline to sit in the library at 1am making notes when your science mates are out getting lashed, simply because you've got an essay due in.
Wot I've been saying for the past three years Basically, the best and simaltaneously worst thing about History is the freedom. It requires SO much self-motivation to actually get the work done. For example, at the moment I'm procrastinating on TSR when I should be writing my dissertation
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alispam
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#55
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#55
yes i agree that science essays are generally not the same as 'art' essays as it is basically getting all the facts down, compared to the analytical essays in other subjects. From my great memories of history Alevel analytical essays are much harder and time consuming than my science essays. However i would say i spend, on average, 25 hours a week on my essays as they have to be very comprehensive and reading all the research papers and books takes a lot of time.

Whilst I do not dispute that arts subjects have much more freedom than science subjects, i do think artists underestimate the amount of stuff scientists have to do outside of lectures and labs. We do have work sheets and essays every week as well as lab write ups.

I just think CamRob could rephrase the part where he says science students 'coast' through lectures and labs and then go home. I have been up to 3am finishing essays as well. In my opinion science is an arts degree with labs and more lectures:p:
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NiceCupOfTea
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#56
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Getting a first is much, much harder than you imagine.
About 10% of all graduates get firsts in the UK. You don't have to be particularly bright, just hard working. And follow the mark scheme.

That was the best advice I was ever given at university. Want an A5 (the bog standard 'First' band)? Then read the mark scheme, cobble your evidence together to fit it and submit. Viola, 'First'.

A depressing revelation.
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Wez
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#57
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#57
(Original post by NiceCupOfTea)
About 10% of all graduates get firsts in the UK. You don't have to be particularly bright, just hard working. And follow the mark scheme.

That was the best advice I was ever given at university. Want an A5 (the bog standard 'First' band)? Then read the mark scheme, cobble your evidence together to fit it and submit. Viola, 'First'.

A depressing revelation.
Lol, yes, in some subjects at some universities that's possible.

In others it's really not.

I'd love to see someone get a 1st by merely following my mark scheme, given that's it's a whole 30 words long, and merely getting all the relevant evidence, given that there's no set list of evidence you require and you yourself choose what evidence you use.
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FadeToBlackout
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#58
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(Original post by NiceCupOfTea)
About 10% of all graduates get firsts in the UK. You don't have to be particularly bright, just hard working. And follow the mark scheme.

That was the best advice I was ever given at university. Want an A5 (the bog standard 'First' band)? Then read the mark scheme, cobble your evidence together to fit it and submit. Viola, 'First'.

A depressing revelation.
We don't have a mark scheme. Error.
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Elements
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#59
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#59
(Original post by CamRob)
I have to force myself to go to the library, spend 20-30 hours reading and making notes, then plan and write the essay.
That doesn't sound as if you are
(Original post by CamRob)
supposedly the most 'passionate'
if it feels like you
(Original post by CamRob)
have to force [your]self to go to the library
in order to do your work. It sounds more like it feels like more of a chore to you, rather than a dedication and sustained passion to your subject with an urge to acquire more knowledge and commit yourself fully to the degree subject and task at hand.

(Original post by CamRob)
It requires much more self-discipline to sit in the library at 1am making notes when your science mates are out getting lashed, simply because you've got an essay due in.
That does not show or prove that Tabs or Oxbridge ppl in general
(Original post by CamRob)
probably work harder than students at any other university in [their] subject
That just portrays poor time management, which is a common problem in all universities and within both arts subjects and science subjects alike.

Furthermore, isn't 20-30hours of reading and note taking time, the minimum or average guideline/recommendation for essays, not only within Oxbridge but from universities within the Top 30 of the various league tables too? If so that quantity of time is by no means a superior length of time, comparitively speaking, or an impressive feat. And generally across many more universites than Oxbridge, when one is completing an essay they will do some substantial reading for it, represented by 'n' hours, take notes from their reference sources, plan then write it.
(Original post by CamRob)
reading and making notes, then plan and write the essay.
That's nothing special.

I know that at Oxbridge you are given weekly essays to complete for supervisions, which thus increases your workload and immersion within your subject. But you did not draw on this point to support your arguments. And what's more, I would love ( :suith: ) for you to prove me wrong about the number of hours part, but I would more dearly ;heart; for you to prove to me just how passionate about your subject and dedicated you truly are.
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Elements)
I know that at Oxbridge you are given weekly essays to complete for supervisions, which thus increases your workload and immersion within your subject. But you did not draw on this point to support your arguments. And what's more, I would love ( :suith: ) for you to prove me wrong about the number of hours part, but I would more dearly ;heart; for you to prove to me just how passionate about your subject and dedicated you truly are.

1. Look at studies into the amount of time students spend studying at different universities, Oxbridge consistently tops the table in the vast majority of cases. It has absolutely nothing to do with poor time management, we just get a ****load more work. I've written nine 3,000 word essays in eight weeks,, you'd be hard-pushed to find another History student who's written a similar amount in the same amount of time at another university, other than Oxford.
2. I don't need to prove how passionate I am, I love my subject. The distinction I was making was between science students who are told when and where to work in the majority of cases, and people like me who simply get an essay title, reading list and an appointment a week away and are expected to hand in a completed essay. Therefore forcing yourself is the difference, because YOU decide when you go to the library, not the supervisor/lecturer/demonstrator. And the use of 'passionate' was a link to what the person I'd quoted had pointed out as a difference, and because it is supposedly one of the most important criteria for being selected to study here.
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