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Hamas confirms: 50 killed were members of terror group

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Original post by admonit
And I can't distinguish between hate toward Israel and antisemitism.


Then you're part of the problem.
Original post by Trinculo
This is true, although I don't really see how relevant this is to the situation the other day.

First, we're still using the language of "protest" as if this were some kind of march or demonstration, when there is evidence that it was anything but. The evidence of both sides is that it was an armed invasion, organised by Hamas. The only people who are saying otherwise are pro-Palestinian people outside of the region. It seems very strange that this narrative being supported here is not what either side is saying on the Gaza-Israel border.

Second, let's pretend for a moment that this mass of 30-40,000 people was not a direct attempt by Hamas to attack Israel. That's contradictory to the evidence - but let's pretend this is the case.

As far as you are concerned, the presence of "some" Hamas armed militants in the mass does not mean that the whole thing was an armed assault? Ok. So look at the casualties - Some 60 people killed, of whom already 50 are claimed by Hamas as their fighters, and a small handful by Islamic Jihad as theirs.

So from a crowd of 30-40,000 - the number of people that attend a large football match, a number greater than all the combat soldiers in the entire British Army are at the border - and nearly all the people killed are explicitly terrorists, as confirmed by the terrorist groups themselves. Does that not indicate that rather than being indiscriminate and bloodthirsty, the IDF are being absolutely as targeted and retsrained as possible??

There is no other country on earth where this could happen and the state involved would be criticised for taking the action it took. If 40,000 North Koreans charged the South Korean border with burning tyres and petrol bombs with the intent of breaking through and killing people in the South, what do you think would happen? The people defending the border would start shooting and not stop until one side or the other was dead.


Nay. Demonstrations happens all the time. If ISIL claimed responsibility of an attack in US you might believe it. But I'm going to disregard it. What Hamas has to say here is, similarly, disregarded.

If you have sympathy for IDF and endorse them from "protecting" Israel's border. That's fine. I like to think about the concept of "proportional response" and how it so non-existent in that country.

It started decades ago to rob the livelihood of Palestinians and making them endure in a deteriorating economy. The seeds planted then are still watered today so the future for the fabled "peace" is nothing but a mirage. Its unfortunate but it's what bureaucrats want.
Original post by TaintedLight
Nay. Demonstrations happens all the time. If ISIL claimed responsibility of an attack in US you might believe it. But I'm going to disregard it. What Hamas has to say here is, similarly, disregarded.

If you have sympathy for IDF and endorse them from "protecting" Israel's border. That's fine. I like to think about the concept of "proportional response" and how it so non-existent in that country.

It started decades ago to rob the livelihood of Palestinians and making them endure in a deteriorating economy. The seeds planted then are still watered today so the future for the fabled "peace" is nothing but a mirage. Its unfortunate but it's what bureaucrats want.


Then we can’t agree. You’re still using the language of “demonstration” and I’m calling it an armed invasion. The responses are obviously going to be different.
Original post by DeBruyne18
Hatred of Israel is not anti-semitic.

It is.
Just as hatred of the UK is not being bigoted against Christians and hatred of Saudi Arabia is not Islamaphobic.

When Britain declared herself a Christian country? Did I miss something? But supposing she is, is Britain the only Christian country? Did she ever declared herself as a homeland for all Christians? Is her population almost half of the worldwide Christian population?
Is Saudi Arabia the only Muslim country? Did she ever declared herself as a homeland for all Muslims? Is her population almost half of the worldwide Muslim population?
It looks like you are unable to distinguish nations and religions. You really are lost.
You cannot be racist, or anti-semitic against a country.

It's for you Israel is just a country. For the Jewish people it is a Jewish country, a homeland for Jews with almost half of the worldwide Jewish population.
For haters of the Jewish people Israel also is not just a country. For them Israel is the source of all evil on the Earth. That's why your Corbyn, Galloway, Livingstone etc hate Israel. They don't really care about Palestinians, it's all about Jews..
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Well you would say that. You're a far right Israeli nationalist. I would expect nothing less.

You cannot distinguish between a very moderate liberal critique of Israeli ethnic nationalism and antisemitism. It is all the same to you. A liberal Israeli civil nationalism threatens what you want Israel to be, a majority Jewish state. This is going to lead to ethnic cleansing and oppression of none jews, which is what we are seeing. This is not antisemitism and there is evidently a chunk of the Israeli Jewish population that agrees with me given the protests against the IDF killings within Israeli borders.

Let's see how evidently..
"In Tel Aviv, 300 Israelis and Palestinians demonstrated outside the Likud Party headquarters in the city, holding signs and chanting slogans against the violence."
300 Israelis and Palestinians! WOW. It really impresses. :cool:
Original post by anarchism101
Then you're part of the problem.

Well, I know that for you Israel as a nation is a big problem.
Original post by admonit
It is.

When Britain declared herself a Christian country? Did I miss something? But supposing she is, is Britain the only Christian country? Did she ever declared herself as a homeland for all Christians? Is her population almost half of the worldwide Christian population?
Is Saudi Arabia the only Muslim country? Did she ever declared herself as a homeland for all Muslims? Is her population almost half of the worldwide Muslim population?
It looks like you are unable to distinguish nations and religions. You really are lost.

It's for you Israel is just a country. For the Jewish people it is a Jewish country, a homeland for Jews with almost half of the worldwide Jewish population.
For haters of the Jewish people Israel also is not just a country. For them Israel is the source of all evil on the Earth. That's why your Corbyn, Galloway, Livingstone etc hate Israel. They don't really care about Palestinians, it's all about Jews..


Of course British is a Christian country. How can you not know that?
Hating Ireland does not mean you hate Catholics. Hating Britain does not mens you hate Christians. Hating Saudi Arabia does not make you Islamaphobic. Hating India does not make you bigoted against Sikhs. But for some bizarre reason you equate dislike of Israel with anti semitism.
Reply 147
Original post by Trinculo
On the basis of what evidence?

Israel says this was not a peaceful protest but an armed invasion. Ok, I get that you don’t want to believe what they say.

But when the other side- when Hamas come out and say that they are organising and paying for these attacks and that the states aim of them is not protest but to invade Israel and kill as many people as possible- and that the people killed are their militants- and then they go on to show these people in uniform-

On what basis do you have evidence that everyone else is lying and that the only people who know the truth are people in West who are anti-Israel?

Some very liberal media have interviewed Palestinians involved and asked them what’s going on - and they are quite open about wanting to destroy Israel. They don’t care about the embassy- they are there because Hamas has told them to go there and fight and try to kill and will pay them if they are injured or pay their families if they are killed.

The people in the region both Israelis and Palestinians are openly agitated and annoyed at the stance of people here who don’t credit either sides motivations or actions. Israel wants you to know know these people are violent killers - but you don’t believe them. Hamas wants you to know these people are violent killers - but you don’t believe them. The violent killers want you to know they are violent killers - but you don’t believe them.

The only people who think this was some kind of civil rights march are the Lefty idiots here and some real morons at the UNHRC



You're a very good liar. But you know that already.


Okay. Where to start.


For one, this has nothing to do with the embassy move. Palestine has been under military occupation for decades. The embassy move changes nothing. Israel already illegally occupied East Jerusalem. America declaring Jerusalem as Israel's capital is irrelevant since nobody recognises it. The only thing the Americans and Israelis seek to gain is to rile up the Palestinians and Muslim world and start a religious war. It's why the Christian 'fundamentalists' in the British Empire agreed to the Balfour Declaration in the first place. They wanted to bring about the second coming of Christ by forcing Jews to return and form a state, despite the fact that world Jewry was OPPOSED to the formation of the Zionist State of Israel. This is understood when you consider that most Zionists are Atheists who seek to transform Jewish identity into a nationalist one.


Rabbi Shapiro Reacts to Jerusalem Announcement


It has nothing to do with Hamas. All Palestinian factions unanimously support the protests. This is about the people who were displaced returning to their homes which they were ethnically cleansed from. International law and the international community approves of their right to return.


Armed? How were the protesters armed? You must be really deluded to look at protesters being gunned down and accuse them of being armed. Ignoring the fact that they are on their land, no less.


I also assume that you are aware that Israel funded Hamas to divide the Palestinians? All Zionists that use the Hamas card whenever Palestinians are gunned down are hypocrites. Israel was the one that got Hamas ELECTED in a democratic election. Now they want to withdraw their votes? It doesn’t work like that unfortunately. We learnt that with Brexit.


As for those Zionists here who are trying to pin the blame on Islam. The Qur’an only teaches Muslims to fight against those who fight the Muslims. Those who live in peace with us, we are absolutely religiously obligated to live in peace with. Especially the people of the book (Christians and Jews). So their point about Islam calling for the “extermination” of Israel is a red herring. The Jewish people were kicked out of Jerusalem when the Christians took over and were forbidden to enter. It was only when it was conquered by the Muslims in 638 were the Jews permitted to return, under the protection of the Muslims. They lived in peace with us for hundreds of years and were even rescued by the Ottomon Caliphate when the Catholics re-conquered Spain (Andalus), as they feared persecution and preferred living under Islamic rule. Islamic history shows many instances where Christians and Jews achieved high levels of authority and importance, not being forced to live as second-class citizens, as the Muslims are now under the ‘Atheist’ State of Israel. So it cannot be argued that Muslims and Jews are enemies. Orthodox Jews accept this. It was extremist-nationalist Jews and fundamentalist Christians who brought about the political instability we see today. Not Islam, nor Judaism, nor their respective believers.


When the Islamic State saved 150,000 Jews


Islam is not a religion of war; Allah hates war and prefers the Muslims to always seek peaceful solutions whenever possible. But when war comes to the Muslims, they are also commanded to not flee, unless for strategic purposes. This is a common sense and middle approach that virtually all peoples are in agreement with. This is what non-Muslims who misquote the Qur’anic verses on war (and
taking them out of context) do not understand.
(edited 5 years ago)

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