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President of the European Council tears into Donald Trump watch

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    Good on the man! It’s about time the Europeans admitted that the us is a fickle and unreliable ally.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ime=1526476769
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Good on the man! It’s about time the Europeans admitted that the us is a fickle and unreliable ally.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ime=1526476769
    Yes that really told them.

    You are mistaking Trump being an erratic leader and putting the US first v America being an unreliable ally. When it comes to the crunch they are not and Trump will be long gone.

    It is that fickle ally that Europe has enjoyed the protection of whilst failing to pay its fair share of defence costs.

    Tusks says lots of things to one audience and then others to another. Not as though he has much power.

    Ravaged by a dead sheep.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Yes that really told them.

    You are mistaking Trump being an erratic leader and putting the US first v America being an unreliable ally. When it comes to the crunch they are not and Trump will be long gone.

    It is that fickle ally that Europe has enjoyed the protection of whilst failing to pay its fair share of defence costs.

    Tusks says lots of things to one audience and then others to another. Not as though he has mucch power.
    Is this just your hatred for Europe shining through or do you actually think Trump is doing good?
    A good ally doesnt drag you in to needless wars, hit you with tariffs and ban members of your population from travelling without visas?
    Here is to short a space to really address this point but whilst certain European countries have been neglecting their defense spending 2 key questions come up in return 1] Who do they need to be arming themselves against? I imagine youll say Russia in which case that is almost entirely America's fault for their revanchism - only someone truly ignorant of the West-Russia relations c.1991-2008 could make such a claim as to think Russia was a threat before she was alienated.

    He may well do, whats your point there though?
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Is this just your hatred for Europe shining through or do you actually think Trump is doing good?
    A good ally doesnt drag you in to needless wars, hit you with tariffs and ban members of your population from travelling without visas?
    Here is to short a space to really address this point but whilst certain European countries have been neglecting their defense spending 2 key questions come up in return 1] Who do they need to be arming themselves against? I imagine youll say Russia in which case that is almost entirely America's fault for their revanchism - only someone truly ignorant of the West-Russia relations c.1991-2008 could make such a claim as to think Russia was a threat before she was alienated.

    He may well do, whats your point there though?
    1. I dont have a htared for Europe, this is just your invention.

    2. It depends what you mean by good? For whome and in which situation? His primary task is to do good for the US and I suppose he feels for the people who voted for him.

    3. I believe Europe dragged the US into two world wars in Europe? they alsoe helped to rebuild and protect it.

    4. It isnt certain European countries it is all of them who have consistely underspend and not done their fair share except the UK and Greece. Talking in terms of Nato.

    5. Russia has a track record and Eastern European countries have good reason to be wary considering they were occupied by Russia until recently.

    6. Tusk has no power. The idea that your artcile is significant in someway is a gross exaggeration. Do you think any of the cutnries are going to alter their policy to the US because of this speech? They already know what sort of unpredictable personality he has. Same for the UK and US.

    Ofc EU countries look after their own interest they always have, they arent completelu naive. Dont mistake their dislike of Trump for a dislike of the US in general.

    He will only be leader for the next seven years max and in the meantime co operation and trade will continue. Much as youd like there isnt going to be a major split. they need and rely on each other. They have much more in common than any differences.

    Would Russia, Africa, Muslim countries or China make a better ally?
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    I saw the title and instantly knew this was a Napp post.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    1. I dont have a htared for Europe, this is just your invention.
    Yes, it's my invention that you keep bashing Europe :rolleyes:
    2. It depends what you mean by good? For whome and in which situation? His primary task is to do good for the US and I suppose he feels for the people who voted for him.
    Maybe, maybe not but ignoring the rules and norms of international diplomacy directly harms US interests - if you think the US alienating its allies and showing itself to be untrustworthy in its agreements is a good thing, well...:lol:
    3. I believe Europe dragged the US into two world wars in Europe? they alsoe helped to rebuild and protect it.
    First one i'll grant you but the second one it was in the US's interest to step into the breach, to be frank if you deny that it speaks volumes on your grasp of history and geo-politics.

    4. It isnt certain European countries it is all of them who have consistely underspend and not done their fair share except the UK and Greece. Talking in terms of Nato.
    Do i need to point out that the raison d'etre for NATO was the cold war, why wouldsaid countries keep up their spending once the USSR fell? I mean Greece does it because of turkey and Britain does it due to some sense it still matters on the world stage, to any large degree.
    5. Russia has a track record and Eastern European countries have good reason to be wary considering they were occupied by Russia until recently.
    I didn't say they didn't have a right to be nervous but the idea Russia is planning [never mind could realise] plans to recreate her empire would seem to be overly far fetched and certainly not grounded in reality.
    On the other hand her fears regarding NATO expansion against it would seem to not just be justified but also coming to pass.
    6. Tusk has no power. The idea that your artcile is significant in someway is a gross exaggeration. Do you think any of the cutnries are going to alter their policy to the US because of this speech? They already know what sort of unpredictable personality he has. Same for the UK and US.
    Did I say that? Nope. But then again if you think a high ranking member of the EU denouncing Trump signals nothing it would come across as rather deluded of you.
    Ofc EU countries look after their own interest they always have, they arent completelu naive. Dont mistake their dislike of Trump for a dislike of the US in general.
    Do i need to point out that European [indeed global] dislike for the US is on the rise and support for them is a distinct minority? People tend to take offence at US unilateralism that impacts their security and economies - Trumps pining for Bibi over Iran would be a case in point.
    He will only be leader for the next seven years max and in the meantime co operation and trade will continue. Much as youd like there isnt going to be a major split. they need and rely on each other. They have much more in common than any differences.
    Have you ever heard that phrase of "a week is a life time in politics"?
    I never said a word about a split? I simply desire that Europe take control of its destiny and not be a vassal of the US.
    Would Russia, Africa, Muslim countries or China make a better ally?
    Yes chad would make an excellent ally wouldnt it? :rolleyes:
    Personally i'd rather see Russia incorporated into the European network and a bulwark against Chinese expansion. Alas thanks to poor decisions over the past 20yrs that door has well and truly closed now.
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    (Original post by EagleKingdom)
    I saw the title and instantly knew this was a Napp post.
    cool story kid :lol:
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    (Original post by Napp)
    cool story kid :lol:
    Classic Napp using Independent as the source.
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    (Original post by EagleKingdom)
    Classic Napp using Independent as the source.
    Classic implies I do it often? It would seem you know rather little about my posts as I rarely use it as a source...bless you for trying though :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Classic implies I do it often? It would seem you know rather little about my posts as I rarely use it as a source...bless you for trying though :rolleyes:
    Classic implying that you are a liberal and I give no care for your posts as they are heavily one sided.
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    (Original post by EagleKingdom)
    Classic implying that you are a liberal and I give no care for your posts as they are heavily one sided.
    I never claimed to be that?:lol:

    My posts are perfectly neutral, the opinion i attach to them isn't but that goes without saying...

    To be honest i'd probably pay more attention to your opinions on foreign affairs if you had any kind of grounding in it - alas you're a teenager with a somewhat limited world view that has yet to be shaped by facts as opposed to banalities from Fox news.
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    (Original post by EagleKingdom)
    Classic Napp using Independent as the source.
    Nothing wrong with the source it just isnt as significant as he would like it to be.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Yes, it's my invention that you keep bashing Europe :rolleyes:

    Maybe, maybe not but ignoring the rules and norms of international diplomacy directly harms US interests - if you think the US alienating its allies and showing itself to be untrustworthy in its agreements is a good thing, well...:lol:

    First one i'll grant you but the second one it was in the US's interest to step into the breach, to be frank if you deny that it speaks volumes on your grasp of history and geo-politics.


    Do i need to point out that the raison d'etre for NATO was the cold war, why wouldsaid countries keep up their spending once the USSR fell? I mean Greece does it because of turkey and Britain does it due to some sense it still matters on the world stage, to any large degree.

    I didn't say they didn't have a right to be nervous but the idea Russia is planning [never mind could realise] plans to recreate her empire would seem to be overly far fetched and certainly not grounded in reality.
    On the other hand her fears regarding NATO expansion against it would seem to not just be justified but also coming to pass.

    Did I say that? Nope. But then again if you think a high ranking member of the EU denouncing Trump signals nothing it would come across as rather deluded of you.

    Do i need to point out that European [indeed global] dislike for the US is on the rise and support for them is a distinct minority? People tend to take offence at US unilateralism that impacts their security and economies - Trumps pining for Bibi over Iran would be a case in point.

    Have you ever heard that phrase of "a week is a life time in politics"?
    I never said a word about a split? I simply desire that Europe take control of its destiny and not be a vassal of the US.

    Yes chad would make an excellent ally wouldnt it? :rolleyes:
    Personally i'd rather see Russia incorporated into the European network and a bulwark against Chinese expansion. Alas thanks to poor decisions over the past 20yrs that door has well and truly closed now.

    1. 1. Feel free to provide some proof.

    I am not anti European. I do point out that your post isn’t as significant as you claim.

    1. 2. Again you are being naive. Up to him what he does and at the moment the opinion polls are rising for him.
    1. 3. But the Europeans were also massive beneficiaries from aid supplied by the Americans.
    1. 4. Actually the reason for NATO is now peace and security in Europe from whichever threat. They would keep up their spending because they had promised to, that is always a good start.
    1. 5. It isn’t a need to recreate its empire but its quite easy for it to agitate and the cause a regional conflict where it can invite itself in like Ukraine. That is why they all joined NATO as soon as they were free.
    1. 6. NATO is weak and Russia is rearming within Europe.
    1. 7. Show us where Tusk or the president of the European Council has had much influence. The real power in Europe lies with the elected leaders aka Merkel and Macron. Junkers and Tusk says lots of things, but they don’t have much power.
    1. 8. Its the same as your Erdogan post. Wait till he does something meaningful which really does call the US out. Lets see him leave NATO or get involved in a trade war.
    2. 9. Same for the EU lest see it boil down into a serious trade war and them cutting off diplomatic ties. Lets see a boycott of American goods. Trade conflict could happen but it will all be handbags at ten paces.
    3. 10. It is in control of its destiny and has never been a vassal of the US. Bit rich coming from you though you have no like of either Europe or the US as your constant anti Western postings show.
    4. 11. Russia would be a terrible unreliable ally. It doesn’t have the same values as the EU. It is also a minor power in economic terms, just has nukes and lots of tanks.

    Anway thats me done. Btw I think Trump is an unpredictable erratic egotistical bully, but that doesnt have to change anything. I dont hate him, but everyone is wary. His policy on Palestine is a mess, but then the whole situation is.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    1. 1. Feel free to provide some proof.

    I am not anti European. I do point out that your post isn’t as significant as you claim.

    1. 2. Again you are being naive. Up to him what he does and at the moment the opinion polls are rising for him.
    1. 3. But the Europeans were also massive beneficiaries from aid supplied by the Americans.
    1. 4. Actually the reason for NATO is now peace and security in Europe from whichever threat. They would keep up their spending because they had promised to, that is always a good start.
    1. 5. It isn’t a need to recreate its empire but its quite easy for it to agitate and the cause a regional conflict where it can invite itself in like Ukraine. That is why they all joined NATO as soon as they were free.
    1. 6. NATO is weak and Russia is rearming within Europe.
    1. 7. Show us where Tusk or the president of the European Council has had much influence. The real power in Europe lies with the elected leaders aka Merkel and Macron. Junkers and Tusk says lots of things, but they don’t have much power.
    1. 8. Its the same as your Erdogan post. Wait till he does something meaningful which really does call the US out. Lets see him leave NATO or get involved in a trade war.
    2. 9. Same for the EU lest see it boil down into a serious trade war and them cutting off diplomatic ties. Lets see a boycott of American goods. Trade conflict could happen but it will all be handbags at ten paces.
    3. 10. It is in control of its destiny and has never been a vassal of the US. Bit rich coming from you though you have no like of either Europe or the US as your constant anti Western postings show.
    4. 11. Russia would be a terrible unreliable ally. It doesn’t have the same values as the EU. It is also a minor power in economic terms, just has nukes and lots of tanks.
    1. I'm not sifting through your posting history for a side point so you can simply have this one.
    2. Pot meet kettle. If the world was ruled by America you might be right but it doesnt and other countries are entitled to push back against american unilaterlism.
    3. Are you refering to lend-lease? If so that wasnt aid. Equally to say that any aid wasnt in americas interest is risible.
    4. To quote its first sec-gen Lord Ismey "Its to keep the Russians out, the Americans in and the Germans out"
    5. Well where else is it meant to rearm? Equally it has every right to rearm considering how shocking its armed forces were in the 1990's
    6. I never claimed they did but to say their words dont have any effect is just ignorant, they have influence.
    7.My erdogan post? You'll have to refresh my memory here, i dont recall making a post on him?
    8. I'm sorry what are you on about a trade war for?
    9. In your limited opinion on the matter maybe. I'm all for Europe? I just don't like American foreign policy.
    10. And yet its military is more powerful than any european one, arguably? Also pray tell how it would be "unreliable" especially considering your precious America has literally just proved itself unreliable.
    11. It also controls most of europes energy :rolleyes: To be perfectly frank only a truly ignorant person would underestimate Russia's power. It might not be a superpower by any stretch but to simply brush it off as a regional power is the hieght of stupidity - and something that has been proven false curtesy of its highly successful intervention in Syria
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    (Original post by 999tigger)

    Anway thats me done. Btw I think Trump is an unpredictable erratic egotistical bully, but that doesnt have to change anything. I dont hate him, but everyone is wary. His policy on Palestine is a mess, but then the whole situation is.
    I'll happily agree with that
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    (Original post by Napp)
    I never claimed to be that?:lol:

    My posts are perfectly neutral, the opinion i attach to them isn't but that goes without saying...

    To be honest i'd probably pay more attention to your opinions on foreign affairs if you had any kind of grounding in it - alas you're a teenager with a somewhat limited world view that has yet to be shaped by facts as opposed to banalities from Fox news.
    I know, I am the one making the claim. You cannot state your posts are neutral when you add your opinion into it which is completely 100% anti-Trump in all the Trump threads you have made. It is also just funny that you assume I am a teenager when I'm not and Fox News isn't my main source of information.

    What facts do I have to be shaped by?

    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Nothing wrong with the source it just isnt as significant as he would like it to be.
    In my opinion the source is ****. Independent News is completely anti-Conservative and anti-Trump and they do not produce a non-biased article.
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    (Original post by EagleKingdom)
    I know, I am the one making the claim. You cannot state your posts are neutral when you add your opinion into it which is completely 100% anti-Trump in all the Trump threads you have made. It is also just funny that you assume I am a teenager when I'm not and Fox News isn't my main source of information.
    Mmhmmm.
    Oh you are a snow flake arent you - if you want pro-trump news [good luck finding any] then by all means post it on the site, until then do stop complaining so much.
    And yet you're applying for an undergrad degree, interesting.
    Yeah.. Breitbart isn't any better champ.

    In my opinion the source is ****. Independent News is completely anti-Conservative and anti-Trump and they do not produce a non-biased article.
    [/quote]
    If only your opinion was worth something :rolleyes:
    Just because you don't like their biass [all news is] doesnt make the source "****" - unlike the stuff i assume you read/watch they don't have a proven history of lying in their articles ergo fox, DM, Breitbart etc. etc.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Mmhmmm.
    Oh you are a snow flake arent you - if you want pro-trump news [good luck finding any] then by all means post it on the site, until then do stop complaining so much.
    And yet you're applying for an undergrad degree, interesting.
    Yeah.. Breitbart isn't any better champ.
    That is a negative. Who said I'm applying for an undergraduate degree?

    It's still funny that you think I use Breitbart and Fox News as my source of information when you are just completely wrong. Typical Liberal fashion for when someone doesn't express the same views as them.


    (Original post by Napp)
    If only your opinion was worth something :rolleyes:
    Just because you don't like their biass [all news is] doesnt make the source "****" - unlike the stuff i assume you read/watch they don't have a proven history of lying in their articles ergo fox, DM, Breitbart etc. etc.
    Oh boy, you really did hurt my feelings with that one!
    If the news source is biased like the Independent News is, then it is ****. Simple as that.
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    (Original post by EagleKingdom)
    That is a negative. Who said I'm applying for an undergraduate degree?
    You did.
    It's still funny that you think I use Breitbart and Fox News as my source of information when you are just completely wrong. Typical Liberal fashion for when someone doesn't express the same views as them.
    mmhmmm, of course you don't.
    I do wish you lot would make up your mind - you all seem to call me everything from a fascist to a liberal to a pinko, you're going to have to make up your minds at some point :rolleyes:

    Oh boy, you really did hurt my feelings with that one!
    top hole sport.
    If the news source is biased like the Independent News is, then it is ****. Simple as that.
    In your rather limited view on the matter, maybe.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    2. It depends what you mean by good? For whome and in which situation? His primary task is to do good for the US and I suppose he feels for the people who voted for him.
    From what the world has seen so far of Donald Trump, his primary task is 'to do good' for Israel.

    5. Russia has a track record and Eastern European countries have good reason to be wary considering they were occupied by Russia until recently.
    Eastern European 'countries' were under Soviet, not Russian, rule.

    Would Russia, Africa, Muslim countries or China make a better ally?
    Real allies do not threaten to sanction their allies; real allies do not lead their allies into a foolish cycle of perpetual war.

    The EU is more than capable of defending itself and its interests without allies. Furthermore, closer cooperation between the EU, Russia and China is a match made in heaven due to the high technology and innovation, natural resources, manpower and cheap cost of industry - it is not even debatable whether China and Russia would make better allies.
 
 
 
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