MA vs. BSc Watch

Frater
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Long Jo(h)n Silver, yarrr)
I'm not entirely sure about that, it's higher than bachelors but it's still an undergrad course. You may be looking at doing a doctorate after your MA i think...but you may want to ask someone who's already going through the system.
As I said before, try not to confuse British and Scottish Degree, there very different. The scottish degree is more like the American Degree, with Majors and minors ect. Your right that you can go onto a PhD straight away after a 4 year BSc/MA. The british degree holders have to do a masters before the PhD (this changes between unis) Source of this : Cambridge PhD Entry Requirements.
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essygal1990
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Long Jo(h)n Silver, yarrr)
but surely if you do both in one that's far better?
I want to have the oppertunity to do my masters at another university.
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Long Jo(h)n Silver, yarrr
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#23
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#23
(Original post by essygal1990)
I want to have the oppertunity to do it at another university.
i guess you'd be looking at doing a doctorate at another university as opposed to your masters - it just means you'd be more highly qualified.
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Frater
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(Original post by essygal1990)
Gosh you are helpful! I am going to rep you :hugs:.

So when you asked lecturers they said that it is still considered to be a Bachelors degree?
Yes it is a Batchelors degree, but with more depth and its broader. For example: When I start my BSc at Ed, Ill take all the possible maths options I can... which ll add upto 4 years worth of mathematics.... if I can fit it into the time table.

Also something that I learnt: I still can't believe it though, the first and second year of your degree does not count towards your final mark (1st, 2:1, ect) only your 3rd and 4th do. All you need is to pass your first and second year at Edinburgh. Although, you've gotta remember, your employer ses your results, so can't slack off for two years.... such a shame (this may be different at St A's... but some how I doubt it.
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essygal1990
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(Original post by Frater)
Yes it is a Batchelors degree, but with more depth and its broader. For example: When I start my BSc at Ed, Ill take all the possible maths options I can... which ll add upto 4 years worth of mathematics.... if I can fit it into the time table.

Also something that I learnt: I still can't believe it though, the first and second year of your degree does not count towards your final mark (1st, 2:1, ect) only your 3rd and 4th do. All you need is to pass your first and second year at Edinburgh. Although, you've gotta remember, your employer ses your results, so can't slack off for two years.... such a shame
So that means I could still do my Masters at another university?
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Frater
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#26
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#26
Have you guys visited www.thesinner.net

Its the website made my St andrews own students, they may be able to clarify these points. Theres always the probabiltity that St andrews may have scraped this program.... highly highly doubt it, but its still a possibilty.
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Frater
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#27
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(Original post by essygal1990)
So that means I could still do my Masters at another university?
yeh... by why would you want to if you have got the relevant education, what are you studying aswell, St Andrews has some accelerated learning degrees, with gets you a british Masters, should check if you can get it on your course.

Thank you for the rep
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essygal1990
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Frater)
yeh... by why would you want to if you have got the relevant education, what are you studying aswell, St Andrews has some accelerated learning degrees, with gets you a british Masters, should check if you can get it on your course.

Thank you for the rep
Well I would just like to keep my options open .

Is it possible to obtain a British Masters without this accelerated learning degree?
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Frater
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#29
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If your talking about after your 4 years at uni, then yes.

Ah also the great thing about the MA is, you can change your course after the two years, same with the BSc... but more with the MA as you can change completely from say Maths to English, whereas in the Bsc you can go to a maths to Maths and Economics degree... this all depends on what the university offers.
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cookiemonster88
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OK.... I'm currently at the University of St Andrews. Ignore most of what everyone else has said; a lot of it is rubbish.

Basically, at St Andrews, the BSc has exactly the same weighting as the MA. The BSc is the basic degree awarded by the faculties of Medicine and Science and the MA is the basic undergraduate degree awarded by the faculty of Arts (we don't do BA's up here). However, because BAs are awarded by English unis as their basic undergrad arts degrees and MAs are what English post-grads get, it is easy to see why many people from outside Scotland think that the St Andrews MA is of higher value than a St Andrews BSc - it is not - they both have exactly the same weighting.

For many subjects which are in both faculties (Economics / Geography / Management etc...) it is possible to obtain either a BSc or an MA. On the BSc route, it just means that the extra modules you do must be from the science faculty (Chemistry / Maths / Physics / Geoscience / Biology / Economics / Computer science etc) whereas for the MA route, your extra modules must be mainly from the arts faculty (History / Classics / Philosophy / Social Anthropology / English / Modern foreign languages etc...)

The Scottish BSc and MA degrees are of a higher value than the English BA and BSc, although of a slightly lower value than the English post-grad MA and MSc degrees (if this makes sense)...... msg me is you have any other questions
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Frater
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#31
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(Original post by cookiemonster88)
OK.... I'm currently at the University of St Andrews. Ignore most of what everyone else has said; a lot of it is rubbish.

Basically, at St Andrews, the BSc has exactly the same weighting as the MA. The BSc is the basic degree awarded by the faculties of Medicine and Science and the MA is the basic undergraduate degree awarded by the faculty of Arts (we don't do BA's up here). However, because BAs are awarded by English unis as their basic undergrad arts degrees and MAs are what English post-grads get, it is easy to see why many people from outside Scotland think that the St Andrews MA is of higher value than a St Andrews BSc - it is not - they both have exactly the same weighting.

For many subjects which are in both faculties (Economics / Geography / Management etc...) it is possible to obtain either a BSc or an MA. On the BSc route, it just means that the extra modules you do must be from the science faculty (Chemistry / Maths / Physics / Geoscience / Biology / Economics / Computer science etc) whereas for the MA route, your extra modules must be mainly from the arts faculty (History / Classics / Philosophy / Social Anthropology / English / Modern foreign languages etc...)

The Scottish BSc and MA degrees are of a higher value than the English BA and BSc, although of a slightly lower value than the English post-grad MA and MSc degrees (if this makes sense)...... msg me is you have any other questions
Thats practically what was said before.... I wasn't aware it was a must study science modules though, although I am sure the majority do take science modules.
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la_banane_verte
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#32
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(Original post by cookiemonster88)
OK.... I'm currently at the University of St Andrews. Ignore most of what everyone else has said; a lot of it is rubbish.
I agree with cookiemonster88's post. I didn't understand what the majority of posts in this thread were trying to describe, but it didn't sound very much like what actually goes on here.

Just to add, if you're doing BSc, it is possible to take some arts modules (up to 40 credits worth I think) and vice-versa.

And someone was talking about 'accelerated degrees' or something - I think they might have been referring to the MChem, MMath, MPhys type of degrees, which are worth slightly more than an MA or BSc, but are still undergraduate degrees - they're aimed at people with an interest in going into research mostly. Under ordinary circumstances, it would take you 5 years to complete one of these degrees at Scottish uni, but you can do them in 4 years if you get either direct entry to second year or onto the fast track scheme, which requires higher than normal grades.
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ChemistBoy
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#33
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#33
(Original post by cookiemonster88)
The Scottish BSc and MA degrees are of a higher value than the English BA and BSc, although of a slightly lower value than the English post-grad MA and MSc degrees (if this makes sense)...... msg me is you have any other questions
I agree with most of what you have said but this is simply untrue. The Scottish BSc/MA is exactly the same as an English bachelors degree (or Oxbridge undergraduate MA). Only the MSci - type degrees are considered of higher level.

Btw, to those of you refering to a 'british degree' what is that? Scotland is as British as the rest of the UK and some universities in the rest of the UK (most notably oxbridge) have the habit of awarding undergraduate MAs too. It is more to do with the fact that this is tradition amongst English-speaking ancient universities.
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NickkO
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#34
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(Original post by ChemistBoy)
Btw, to those of you refering to a 'british degree' what is that? Scotland is as British as the rest of the UK and some universities in the rest of the UK (most notably oxbridge) have the habit of awarding undergraduate MAs too. It is more to do with the fact that this is tradition amongst English-speaking ancient universities.
I know that if you pay a practically non-existent fee Oxbridge turns your Bsc into a Ma a couple of years after you've left the university. It's not a higher qualification, it's just a tradition.
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ChemistBoy
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(Original post by NickkO)
I know that if you pay a practically non-existent fee Oxbridge turns your Bsc into a Ma a couple of years after you've left the university. It's not a higher qualification, it's just a tradition.
Yep, and the only difference between the oxbridge MA and the Scottish MA is that the latter is awarded upon graduation rather than after an arbitrary period.
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Louie_Gee_Gee
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But if the English BA is of the same 'value' as a Scottish MA, why does the Scottish degree last 4 years?! :confused:

Surely the Scottish MA is worth more because you've actually studied for longer?! :confused:

And as for upgrading English BA's to MA's after a couple of years - isn't that just totally unfair to the people who've studied for a whole extra year for a Scottish MA?!!
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ChemistBoy
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(Original post by Louie_Gee_Gee)
But if the English BA is of the same 'value' as a Scottish MA, why does the Scottish degree last 4 years?! :confused:

Surely the Scottish MA is worth more because you've actually studied for longer?! :confused:

And as for upgrading English BA's to MA's after a couple of years - isn't that just totally unfair to the people who've studied for a whole extra year for a Scottish MA?!!
Because Scottish students finish school education a year earlier. If you look at the level of 1000 courses they are clearly below the level of first year courses at an english university. The award of an undergraduate MA is merely traditional amongst the ancient universities in the UK and Ireland, it has no extra academic weight to it (or how do you justify the fact that a science student at St Andrews only gets a BSc for exactly the same amount of study as an MA-receiving arts student?). A postgraduate MA is an entirely different thing (and yes it is very confusing), you will note that at the universities where the undergraduate MA practice is adopted (Scotland, Oxbridge, Trinity) then postgraduate masters degrees are given different titles (e.g. MLitt, MPhil, etc.) to distinguish them from that MA (incidentally this is why oxbridge grads should use the designation oxon. or cantab. after their degree, unfortunately this practice does not occur in scotland). Our HE system is not standardised and hence why these confusions exist.

And before anyone tries to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about I am a St Andrews graduate and I have used my degree to get into postgraduate study and employment and know exactly how the degrees are viewed.
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Louie_Gee_Gee
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(Original post by ChemistBoy)
Because Scottish students finish school education a year earlier. If you look at the level of 1000 courses they are clearly below the level of first year courses at an english university. The award of an undergraduate MA is merely traditional amongst the ancient universities in the UK and Ireland, it has no extra academic weight to it (or how do you justify the fact that a science student at St Andrews only gets a BSc for exactly the same amount of study as an MA-receiving arts student?). A postgraduate MA is an entirely different thing (and yes it is very confusing), you will note that at the universities where the undergraduate MA practice is adopted (Scotland, Oxbridge, Trinity) then postgraduate masters degrees are given different titles (e.g. MLitt, MPhil, etc.) to distinguish them from that MA (incidentally this is why oxbridge grads should use the designation oxon. or cantab. after their degree, unfortunately this practice does not occur in scotland). Our HE system is not standardised and hence why these confusions exist.

And before anyone tries to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about I am a St Andrews graduate and I have used my degree to get into postgraduate study and employment and know exactly how the degrees are viewed.
Oh right, I see. Does that mean (with my being English) that I could skip the 1st year and go straight to 2nd?
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essygal1990
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#39
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#39
(Original post by ChemistBoy)
Because Scottish students finish school education a year earlier. If you look at the level of 1000 courses they are clearly below the level of first year courses at an english university. The award of an undergraduate MA is merely traditional amongst the ancient universities in the UK and Ireland, it has no extra academic weight to it (or how do you justify the fact that a science student at St Andrews only gets a BSc for exactly the same amount of study as an MA-receiving arts student?). A postgraduate MA is an entirely different thing (and yes it is very confusing), you will note that at the universities where the undergraduate MA practice is adopted (Scotland, Oxbridge, Trinity) then postgraduate masters degrees are given different titles (e.g. MLitt, MPhil, etc.) to distinguish them from that MA (incidentally this is why oxbridge grads should use the designation oxon. or cantab. after their degree, unfortunately this practice does not occur in scotland). Our HE system is not standardised and hence why these confusions exist.

And before anyone tries to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about I am a St Andrews graduate and I have used my degree to get into postgraduate study and employment and know exactly how the degrees are viewed.
Thank you for fully explaining . That was really helpful!
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ChemistBoy
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(Original post by Louie_Gee_Gee)
Oh right, I see. Does that mean (with my being English) that I could skip the 1st year and go straight to 2nd?
For some courses yes. Others either don't require an A-level in that subject or the academics prefer to standardise the level of people before starting second year.
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