Labour shadow Chancellor John McDonnell says his job is to overthrow capitalism and r Watch

HighOnGoofballs
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ow-capitalism/

Imagine trying this hard to lose the next general election.
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Xsjajosa
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What an absolute mong
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username521617
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I've always thought "Shadow Chancellor" sounded like something from Star Wars. A communist sith, this man is. Mhmm.
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username3672344
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ow-capitalism/

Imagine trying this hard to lose the next general election.
Leftist economics actually have substantial popular support when polled. There is high support for nationalisation, higher spend on the NHS and higher taxes.

Problem is that people also tend to be anti-immigration and socially conservative.
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AngeryPenguin
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So we have some actual leftists in parliament for once.

This is going to be a smug right-wing pile-on, but you'd all be the first to criticise him if he sold his principles in an attempt to win the election.
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username1738683
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Nothing new, he's been saying it all his life. Where his entry on Who's Who reads 'fermenting' he probably means 'fomenting' the overthrow of capitalism. This is all nuts, the left seem to have finally managed to dumb everyone down to the lowest common denominator, it was indispensable for them and here we are.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Leftist economics actually have substantial popular support when polled. There is high support for nationalisation, higher spend on the NHS and higher taxes.

Problem is that people also tend to be anti-immigration and socially conservative.
There is a difference between leftist economics, and litterally wanting to overthrow capitalism. This sort of revolutionist dogma has no place in the UK.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
So we have some actual leftists in parliament for once.

This is going to be a smug right-wing pile-on, but you'd all be the first to criticise him if he sold his principles in an attempt to win the election.
Well if his principles were crap, which they are, nobody would criticise him.
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username3672344
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
There is a difference between leftist economics, and litterally wanting to overthrow capitalism. This sort of revolutionist dogma has no place in the UK.
It seems it does have a place though. It's not something I agree with but there are more than a handful of people who do.

The problem is that the defenders of capitalism are not as convincing as they once were.
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Axiomasher
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
There is a difference between leftist economics, and litterally wanting to overthrow capitalism. This sort of revolutionist dogma has no place in the UK.
So it's ok for people to denounce socialism but not ok for people to denounce capitalism?
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
It seems it does have a place though. It's not something I agree with but there are more than a handful of people who do.

The problem is that the defenders of capitalism are not as convincing as they once were.
Just because a handful, or even a plentiful number of people agree with it, does not inately make it a justifiable position.

To simply say that Capitalism deserves to be overthrown is a position that ignore the benefits that capitalism has undeniably provided and continues to provide.

If you're a social democrat, or even a socialist, I have no quarrel with you, but this revolutionary socialism is plain dangerous and a stain on Corbyns image.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
this revolutionary socialism is plain dangerous and a stain on Corbyns image.
How so? Corbyn is a fellow traveller with his shadow chancellor. They are in full agreement, and have been for a lifetime. The only thing that has changed is that the Labour party, which had spent decades trying to keep them either out altogether or in the cupboard, managed to shoot itself in the foot and allow them to be elected to leadership positions. They are now busy letting in those that the party had got rid of over the years and planning to do what they have always sought to do. Occasionally one of them is stupid enough to remind the electorate.
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Duncan2012
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Wikipedia lists all current and former socialist states. Aspiring to join the countries on that list is nothing to be proud of.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by Axiomasher)
So it's ok for people to denounce socialism but not ok for people to denounce capitalism?
When capitalism killed over 100 million people or when socialism brings over 1bn people out of absolute poverty we can talk.
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Trinculo
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The alarming issue here is the shift from things like being all for higher taxes and “the NHS “ to an overthrow of capitalism. There’s such a gulf between those things.

Most people can envisage some sort of future that might have higher tax rates and greater public spending. Quite how you get from there to full on Marxist state, I have no idea
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Good bloke
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(Original post by Trinculo)
The alarming issue here is the shift
As I said above, this is not a shift. It has always been the intention, and he is Corbyn's closest ally. It has been in his Who's Who entry for a very long time, for instance, that his life's purpose is to foment the overthrow of capitalism.
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Axiomasher
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
When capitalism killed over 100 million people or when socialism brings over 1bn people out of absolute poverty we can talk.
I don't accept that kind of bad reasoning though. I could just as easily, and superficially, argue that fascism, such as that of Hitler and Stalin, are forms of capitalism, state-based capitalism; lots of big businesses did quite well under the Nazis as it happens.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Good bloke)
As I said above, this is not a shift. It has always been the intention, and he is Corbyn's closest ally. It has been in his Who's Who entry for a very long time, for instance, that his life's purpose is to foment the overthrow of capitalism.
I mean the public shift. Everyone knows McDonnell and Corbyn want a Marxist revolution - what I mean is they haven't been explicit about it especially in the public sphere - it was like they've been playing a game of kiddology that people will think they just want a few pence on income tax and nurses getting more money.

Remember, on Marr (I think?) Corbyn wouldn't even commit to saying that he thought of himself as a Marxist, which is absurd - it would be like asking Cameron if he went to Eton.

Now for whatever reason, maybe they think they're doing better, or maybe because they think they're doing worse - they're coming right out with it. I find it bizarre. I can see votes in the NHS or votes in school funding. I don't see any votes in overthrowing capitalism. You ask the person in the street if they want higher tax and better hospitals -a lot of people will say yes. You ask them if they want state ownership of everything and centralised planning, they're going to run a mile.
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Dez
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Ironically I can't read the Torygraph's criticism of McDonnell's anti-capitalist views as the website wants me to pay them money before I can view the article. :beard:
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Good bloke
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(Original post by Trinculo)
they've been playing a game of kiddology that people will think they just want a few pence on income tax and nurses getting more money.
It has been obviously from the outset that they have, and there seem to be plenty of people who are prepared to believe that narrative.
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