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BBC's Have Your Say Website - Indicative of Public Opinion? watch

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    ^ Have Your Say does get moderated and filtered.
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    I find it kind of ironic that if all the people complaining about immigrants and spouting 'they should go back where they came from' comments were deported, the country would probably be a much better place.
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    In any medium where the public votes those with a lassai faire attitude to an issue are going to be under represented. Those who have an axe to grind, or are Daily Mail readers or left wing militants or generally just extremely ardent about issues are always going to make the most provocative comments, get noticed the most, and steal attention away from those saying, well maybe we should have a few more safegaurds against immigrants. Or whatever. Or

    "well I can see your point of view Mr Irate from Picketywich but don't you think public flogging for anti social behaviour and hangings for glancing askew at a lady of dubious moral virtue are a tad OTT?"
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E10Bp_mPXXA&feature=user
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    Most people with a job have better things to do than argue with fanatical idiots on the internet. I imagine the majority get scared away from Have Your Say and never come back. Definitely not indicative of public opinion.
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    (Original post by louisedotcom)
    I also know many people who in no way support the BNP, and are not racict themselves but still feel that the country has gone to the dogs, and that they are discriminated against. I think that point of view is understandable, and I agree to some degree.
    Anyone who has been here for 10+ years can see the country has gone downhill, whether it's immigrants who have settled here for decades, their descendants, whites etc. My mum (herself an immigrant) complains about the influx of people in their area, how they overcrowd things.

    But apparently we are stuck in that grey no man's land, where we have to keep our mouths shut about issues in our own country because any response will no doubt come in the lines of "if you don't like it here go back to your own country."

    I suppose I can understand how they see us as part of the problem, despite us being the "solution" decades ago. But immigrants from all waves are grouped together, cos its easier innit.
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    (Original post by Casserole)
    Anyone who has been here for 10+ years can see the country has gone downhill, whether it's immigrants who have settled here for decades, their descendants, whites etc. My mum (herself an immigrant) complains about the influx of people in their area, how they overcrowd things.

    But apparently we are stuck in that grey no man's land, where we have to keep our mouths shut about issues in our own country because any response will no doubt come in the lines of "if you don't like it here go back to your own country."

    I suppose I can understand how they see us as part of the problem, despite us being the "solution" decades ago. But immigrants from all waves are grouped together, cos its easier innit.
    How exactly have immigrants lead to a decline in this country? Since it has recently been revealed they have given a boost to the economy by filling jobs that many people don't want to do, and are filling gaps in areas where there are skills shortages, such as in the NHS and so on. We are wealthier than ever before, although it's skewing towards the middle ground, safer than ten years ago also overall. The problems I see are in education and in opportunities in employment, not to do with immigrants, but would be interested to see why you have this impression, after all your mothers point of view is entirely anecdotal.
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    Where did I say immigrants have led to the decline of this country in my post? You didn't read it properly did you?
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    (Original post by Casserole)
    Where did I say immigrants have led to the decline of this country in my post? You didn't read it properly did you?
    My apologies if I misunderstood. My bad.

    Probably didn't read your last sentence too well. You know the way, you get the impression and then you only read what you want to read.

    Casserole you, or should I say your parents, aren't part of the problem you're a scapegoat as ever.
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    Wow, I have no idea how you're seeing my post.

    The immigrants on an individual basis are not the problem, but as part of the bigger picture - when seen in numbers - they are overwhelming and stretching public services.

    When I say "they see us", I mean the indigineous white population - though to be fair, my family considers ourselves to be part of that, so it is rather misleading. But the point is, OTHERS don't. It's all about perceived identity.

    Immigrants were vital decades ago because the workers just weren't there in the right industries. People trained in A couldn't do B, and of course there was a shortage of men. Now, not so important... we (the country) have the means to educate and train people, it's just that the dormant people aren't willing.

    "immigrants from all waves are grouped together" - you know, those that came after the war, those that came after the independence of former british colonies, the recent eastern european immigration.... they're all waves, but ultimately - again to the "indigenous" public, we're all "the same".

    Please tell me you get it.
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    (Original post by jgupta)
    As its already been said...the anonymity means people will just post mindless rubbish as they know they're never going to be questioned it.
    or the opposite, people use the anonymity of the internet to post how they really feel as under much of whats said nowadays agianst things like immigration is to be called "racist"

    sometimes i think people live in cloud cuckoo land. The comments on HYs are posted by racist bigots therfroe thier not indicative of the british population............well maybe that is indicative of the way people in this country feel.

    though i do admit many of the comments on there are bloody daft
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    (Original post by Casserole)
    Wow, I have no idea how you're seeing my post.

    The immigrants on an individual basis are not the problem, but as part of the bigger picture - when seen in numbers - they are overwhelming and stretching public services.

    When I say "they see us", I mean the indigineous white population - though to be fair, my family considers ourselves to be part of that, so it is rather misleading. But the point is, OTHERS don't. It's all about perceived identity.

    Immigrants were vital decades ago because the workers just weren't there in the right industries. People trained in A couldn't do B, and of course there was a shortage of men. Now, not so important... we (the country) have the means to educate and train people, it's just that the dormant people aren't willing.

    "immigrants from all waves are grouped together" - you know, those that came after the war, those that came after the independence of former british colonies, the recent eastern european immigration.... they're all waves, but ultimately - again to the "indigenous" public, we're all "the same".

    Please tell me you get it.
    No then I don't immigrants aren't the problem, nor were they in the time of colonies, they have always been a scapegoat, for problems that are intrinsic with our society. We have skills shortages now, just as we did back then. Is this what you are driving at, because I can't see an immigrant problem to be honest. You aren't the problem as always you are the solution, and idiots who see you otherwise are missing the bigger problem, there are still skills shortages, we need immigrants to fill the gaps. What is the problem with that?
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    We do need immigrants - and its not as if theyre "stealing all the jobs" - minimum wage means that for low skill jobs, they're paid pretty much the same.
    The jobs have been around ages, its people too lazy to work who sit around claiming of benefits - if the BNP ever succeeded in wiping all out all ethnic minorities, those people would still be sat on their arse going "ther aint no'th jobs"
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    What drives me insane is that they never approve my comments even though they are well-informed and thoughtful or at the very least coherent, yet they publish white nationalist sentiment by the bucketload. I reckon the moderators are WNs themselves.
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    (Original post by djhworld)
    No way indicative of public opinion.

    The whole board is full of xenophobic, racist bigots who (most likely) read the Daily Mail and harbour views that are frankly quite shocking.
    I may have misunderstood your argument here. Are you trying to say that it can't represent public opinion because you think it's xenophobic, racist, etc.?
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    HYS is by it's nature as an internet message board going to attract people with strong views. These people tend to be polarised in their views, and tend to post regularly. So I think it's inevitable really
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    I despise the Have Your Say on BBC News website. No one ever has anything good to say, and somehow everything seems to end up being about the things the OP originally said (You forgot BBC bashing). Sometimes I just look on their to laugh at how stupid some people are.

    PS. I was thinking about asking people on TSR the same question recently...
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    (Original post by jgupta)
    We do need immigrants - and its not as if theyre "stealing all the jobs" - minimum wage means that for low skill jobs, they're paid pretty much the same.
    This is all rubbish. The economic effects of immigration are well documented (its hardly a new phenonemom is it?).

    I read about study in the FT by the London School of Economics which concluded that recent immigration has boosted GDP per capita overall, but decreased it a little for people in the bottom income quartile (the poor).

    The minimum wage limits the number of low-skilled jobs in the economy in the short run because in effect it is a price flaw (look in an economics textbook). If one person gets a minimum wage job it does mean that that job doesn't go to somebody else.

    I don't buy into some of the anti-immigration arguments either. The country is full up? Nonsense. There is no correlation between population density and quality of life. Which part of the UK would you rather live in - the North East or the South East? Some people will say the North East, but on avarage this isn't how they act.

    Sorry, if the tone of this post is a bit :mad: but I'm fed up with economics being dismissed as some sort of witchcraft!
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    I don't really know what side your taking there but interesting post nonetheless!

    I do agree that obviously min.wage limits the low skilled jobs available, it is correcting the free market system as it seems "wrong" to us.
    If humans were perfect, we would have a completely free-market system, but we're not so we cannot have such a system (paraphrased from Hobbes on democracy).

    Anyway, I don't pretend to know all the arguments, but immigrants do take up jobs which other people are not prepared to do - people who sit around saying "oh theres no jobs" were still doing that long before Poland was a member of the EU, and there were still jobs waiting.
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    (Original post by Sidhe)
    No then I don't immigrants aren't the problem, nor were they in the time of colonies, they have always been a scapegoat, for problems that are intrinsic with our society. We have skills shortages now, just as we did back then. Is this what you are driving at, because I can't see an immigrant problem to be honest. You aren't the problem as always you are the solution, and idiots who see you otherwise are missing the bigger problem, there are still skills shortages, we need immigrants to fill the gaps. What is the problem with that?
    ''fill the gaps'' ?!?

    There's no such thing as ''gaps'' in the labour market.

    If an employer can't find somebody to do a job then they increase the offered wage or they invest elsewhere.

    Take the following examples to prove the point:

    Germany - 8.1% unemployment - hence not many ''gaps'' in the labour market.

    Pakistan - 6.2% unemployment - hence less ''gaps'' in the labour market.

    But which way do you think immigration is likely to flow?

    Source: The Economist (March 1st-7th)

    Unemployment is a function of the impediments to an equilibrium wage being met.

    My view on the overall effect of immigration has been set out in a previous post. It is based on facts. Your view on the effects of immigration seems to be mainly influenced by what you would like the facts to be.
 
 
 
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