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    also since when are people obligated to be patriotic?

    this is just a scaled down version of children banging drums and being indoctrinated about 'the fatherland' in nazi germany
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    I wouldn't have agreed to swear alligence to the country or the queen, and I think trying to strong-arm kids into doing so will, if anything, create unnessecery ill feeling.

    I'm broadly in favour of a federal European superstate as well but, should that bright dawn come, I wouldn't swear an oath to it either.
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    (Original post by mark renton)
    also since when are people obligated to be patriotic?

    this is just a scaled down version of children banging drums and being indoctrinated about 'the fatherland' in nazi germany
    There are too many sub interest groups, for the country to function properly we need to be united under the same values to avoid the tube being blown up again.
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    the way to avoid the tube being blown up again is simply to apologise for the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, withdraw all troops, declare that the country will no longer support aggressive foreign policy of the United States.
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    What a ****ing stupid idea.
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    (Original post by mark renton)
    the way to avoid the tube being blown up again is simply to apologise for the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, withdraw all troops, declare that the country will no longer support aggressive foreign policy of the United States.
    Yes because they didn't attack America BEFORE we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. It's a battle of ideologies not of our actions.
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    they attacked America then in retaliation for a similar thing - American interferance in the Muslim part of the world, in Somlia etc not to mention their unwavering support for Israel over the decades.

    if its just a simple battle of ideologies then how come Muslim and Christian cultures were able to peacefully co-exist without major global incididents prior to the 1990s?
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    (Original post by Demoskratos7)
    It's ridiculous. What ever happened to being a free-thinking, autonomous individual?
    It never existed. Twas an illusion.
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    (Original post by mark renton)
    they attacked America then in retaliation for a similar thing - American interferance in the Muslim part of the world, in Somlia etc not to mention their unwavering support for Israel over the decades.

    if its just a simple battle of ideologies then how come Muslim and Christian cultures were able to peacefully co-exist without major global incididents prior to the 1990s?
    Where? The middle east is the biggest collection of Muslim and Christian cultures colliding and theres been trouble there on and off for centuries. The crusades perhaps? But I've heard Saladin was a lot more peaceful than the small militant muslim leaders you have today.



    As for swearing allegiance to the Queen? no thanks. Can't see the Scottish nationalists liking that, or some sections of Northern Ireland. Why swear allegiance to one person when we should be trying to find common goals and common ground amongst us.
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    The Queen represents the Country, and its history.

    If the Americans can be such "a-holes" as they are, then why can't we?
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    (Original post by mark renton)
    but i mean in modern times.

    of all the major conflicts betwen the end of WW2 and the first Gulf War, few or none were between Christian coutnries against Muslim ones.

    what we have to look at is what changed? And one of the easiest things to conclude is that American foreign policy changed after the cold war ended and through a series of interferences in the affairs of the Muslim world they became more hated.
    AKA a clash of ideologies.
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    (Original post by ColinOfEdinburgh)
    Go abroad then talk loudly and slowly to be understood? If you fail, repeat louder and slower :confused:
    Funny oh so funny!
    I dont know if I want to say Im british... am I not English? I am not welsh nor scottish nor irish, therefore I am english?

    Do you think this will be taken in to concideration?
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I remind you that, as with most American culture, oaths and affirmations of this sort are simply a subset of historic British culture. We used to go mad for oaths to the monarch.

    Great religious conflicts grew up around oaths of allegiance, there were massacres over situations where an oath was given a few days late.



    What do you think? Maybe try reading the lyrics...



    Um, the song was written as God Save the King and has existed as that for most of history.
    Sorry Lib, I wrote this Tongue in cheek.... but thanks :tsr2:
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    Has Gordon Brown even asked the Queen about this or has he rudely put the poor dear on the spot?

    I'll pledge allegiance to my fellow countrymen, but not the descendent of a feudal warlord as someone so aptly put it.

    I don't really see the point in pledging allegiance. I display my allegiance to others by my actions. A little ritual at the end of school is meaningless.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Why? She did it for you.
    I never asked her to :p:


    (Original post by L i b)
    Well, presumably it'd be something more regular than every 50 years or so. But I had to take the Armed Forces oath of allegiance and, like the civilian one, it is an oath of allegiance not only to the Queen, but also to "her heirs and successors, according to law".
    Oh well that would make sense, thanks
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    Utterly moronic idea. Why are there such idiots in positions of power?
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    Well, i wouldnt do it.
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    LOL. Shan't. I choose to live here; that doesn't mean someone can force loyalty out of me. And if they try, I'll hurt them.
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    (Original post by SuperSam_Fantastiche)
    I never asked her to :p:
    Well, implicitly you did. You cannot expect to have a state over and above you that does not take any note of your interests and derive some sort of legitimacy from you. In part, your passive acceptance of the state is already something of a declaration of loyalty.

    (Original post by DirtyHarry)
    Utterly moronic idea. Why are there such idiots in positions of power?
    Typically because we elect them.
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    (Original post by Rabbit Season)
    Has Gordon Brown even asked the Queen about this or has he rudely put the poor dear on the spot?
    Gordon Brown hasn't really had anything to do with any of this. It's all the idea of Lord Goldsmith, the former Attorney General, who has been asked to craft some patriotic ideas and thus far has come up with changing the national flag to include Wales, and this.
 
 
 
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