Should teenagers swear allegiance to the Queen? Watch

L i b
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#141
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#141
(Original post by Lusus Naturae)
And what if a teenager refused to swear allegiance to the queen or to take part in a citizenship ceremony?
I don't think there's anything in any of it that could be perceived as requiring some sort of threat.

So nothing.
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Mr. Orange
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#142
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#142
Don't Rainbows, Beavers, Brownies, Cubs, Guides and Scouts all swear allegiance to the Queen anyway?

I promise that I will do my best, to do my duty to God and to the Queen, to help other people and to keep the Cub Scout law!!!!
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Huw Davies
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#143
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#143
The Scouts is a voluntary organisation and is free to have people swear allegiance to Chuck Norris if it wants to. The Woodcraft Folk exist as a lefty alternative for people who aren't into the "God and the Queen" stuff.
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vagabond
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#144
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#144
i swear allegiance to humanity and to this earth
everything else is drivel
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TheGimpMan
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#145
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#145
Nah.
The Queen has no relevance in today's world, she is merely a sign of the past, of our heritage. As good as she is at attracting tourists, the Queen is not someone I would swear allegiance to.
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L i b
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#146
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(Original post by TheGimpMan)
Nah.
The Queen has no relevance in today's world, she is merely a sign of the past, of our heritage.
Well, while I have considerably deeper objections to your statement there, the obvious question arises: does your heritage not have any relevance in today's world?

As good as she is at attracting tourists
It worries me that anyone would think of basing their system of government on how entertained it keeps foreigners.

(Original post by 10zs)
i swear allegiance to humanity and to this earth
everything else is drivel
Not really. Neither 'humanity' not inanimate objects have the ability to reciprocate your allegiance. The Queen does. I'd be inclined to suggest you've got your conceptions of drivel completely mixed up.
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Lord Hysteria
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#147
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#147
I think having a monarchy is a great attribute to a country - regardless of whether ot not it has a lot of real functions.

It gives the country a history and identity and shouldn't be dismissed becuase it 'does nothing' ...
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CorpusNinja
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#148
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#148
(Original post by L i b)
It worries me that anyone would think of basing their system of government on how entertained it keeps foreigners.
The tourism industry doesn't exist to 'keep foreigners entertained' - it exists to make money. And the Royal Family is certainly a draw for a lot of tourists.
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Huw Davies
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#149
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#149
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
I think having a monarchy is a great attribute to a country - regardless of whether ot not it has a lot of real functions.

It gives the country a history and identity and shouldn't be dismissed becuase it 'does nothing' ...
Poor France, with no history or identity!
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Lord Hysteria
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#150
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#150
(Original post by Huw Davies)
Poor France, with no history or identity!
We have a noble history - there is no doubt!

But yes the loss of the Monarchy during the revolution has meant we no longer have the prestige associated with a monarchy.
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L i b
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#151
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#151
(Original post by CorpusNinja)
The tourism industry doesn't exist to 'keep foreigners entertained' - it exists to make money. And the Royal Family is certainly a draw for a lot of tourists.
Well, that's what it boils down to. Admittedly, Johnny Foreigner pays for the privilege of being entertained, but essentially this argument amounts to prostituting what is one of the greatest and most influential forms of modern governments.

Moreover, I rather agree with the Republican sentiment that it isn't really the people that Americans come over to see any more than a British visitor to the US expects to see George Bush on the White House lawn.
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CorpusNinja
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#152
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#152
(Original post by L i b)
Well, that's what it boils down to. Admittedly, Johnny Foreigner pays for the privilege of being entertained, but essentially this argument amounts to prostituting what is one of the greatest and most influential forms of modern governments.
They don't do anything else that is remotely as valuable so they may as well indirectly bring in revenues via tourism.

I fail to see the greatness of monarchy, whatever you mean by that. And how exactly is it 'modern'?

(Original post by L i b)
Moreover, I rather agree with the Republican sentiment that it isn't really the people that Americans come over to see any more than a British visitor to the US expects to see George Bush on the White House lawn.
Well duh. People usually mean related places - Buckingham Palace etc. when they speak of the RF bringing tourism.
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L i b
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#153
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(Original post by CorpusNinja)
They don't do anything else that is remotely as valuable so they may as well indirectly bring in revenues via tourism.

I fail to see the greatness of monarchy, whatever you mean by that.
I disagree, but I doubt I'm going to convince a dyed in the wool Socialist who quite evidently loathes everything in the political character of this country. So we'll simply nudge you to the sidelines on this issue.

And how exactly is it 'modern'?
Britain basically led the way in the evolution of modern government. The Westminster System has been replicated to various degrees across the world.

Well duh. People usually mean related places - Buckingham Palace etc. when they speak of the RF bringing tourism.
No they don't. The tourism issue is mostly used as an argument for keeping the monarchy; unless getting rid of the monarchy implies bulldozing the properties previously associated with them and melting down the Crown Jewels, then you're quite simply talking out of an orifice other than your mouth.
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Lord Hysteria
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#154
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#154
(Original post by CorpusNinja)
They don't do anything else that is remotely as valuable so they may as well indirectly bring in revenues via tourism.

I fail to see the greatness of monarchy, whatever you mean by that. And how exactly is it 'modern'?
It is called legal, constitutioal and cultural heritage and pride.

It should not be sold out simply due to someone not recognising its value!

You wouldn't sell out the notion of each country having a flag as they represent something meaningful to each country ... the same applies ..
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CorpusNinja
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#155
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#155
(Original post by L i b)
I disagree, but I doubt I'm going to convince a dyed in the wool Socialist who quite evidently loathes everything in the political character of this country. So we'll simply nudge you to the sidelines on this issue.
You really need to learn to come up with something other than 'you're a socialist' when you can't be arsed.

(Original post by L i b)
Britain basically led the way in the evolution of modern government. The Westminster System has been replicated to various degrees across the world.
I don't see how the monarchy is a form of 'modern government' as you implied.

(Original post by L i b)
The tourism issue is mostly used as an argument for keeping the monarchy;
Yes, I never said otherwise, but your prejudices against me are obviously leading you to concoct strawmen from the 'orifice other than your mouth' as you so eloquently put it.

(Original post by L i b)
unless getting rid of the monarchy implies bulldozing the properties previously associated with them and melting down the Crown Jewels, then you're quite simply talking out of an orifice other than your mouth.
Really now, where did anyone, let alone me, suggest anything of the sort? Hell, where did I even suggest getting rid of the monarchy? You are ridiculous.
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CorpusNinja
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#156
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#156
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
It is called legal, constitutioal and cultural heritage and pride.

It should not be sold out simply due to someone not recognising its value!

You wouldn't sell out the notion of each country having a flag as they represent something meaningful to each country ... the same applies ..
I didn't suggest it should be 'sold out', merely that there are alternative reasons to hold onto it.
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L i b
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#157
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#157
(Original post by CorpusNinja)
You really need to learn to come up with something other than 'you're a socialist' when you can't be arsed.
I'm hardly going to go into the various benefits of monarchical government, and specifically in the British tradition, when they are readily available for you to track down yourself.

I don't see how the monarchy is a form of 'modern government' as you implied.
Well, the idea of sovereign nation-states is modern in itself. I was referring specifically to the idea of constitutional monarchy: which is more or less tied to the evolution of the current age of democratic egalitarian government.

Really now, where did anyone, let alone me, suggest anything of the sort? Hell, where did I even suggest getting rid of the monarchy? You are ridiculous.
I'm sorry, but the point I am making is clear. Your statement that: "well duh. People usually mean related places - Buckingham Palace etc. when they speak of the RF bringing tourism" is simply wrong.
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Lord Hysteria
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#158
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#158
(Original post by CorpusNinja)
I didn't suggest it should be 'sold out', merely that there are alternative reasons to hold onto it.
Why else would on deduce from what you said?

(Original post by CorpusNinja)
They don't do anything else that is remotely as valuable so they may as well indirectly bring in revenues via tourism ..... I fail to see the greatness of monarchy
These statements hardly sound like pro-Monarchy?

In any case, this is Have Your Say and not D&D forum
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CorpusNinja
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#159
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#159
(Original post by L i b)
I'm hardly going to go into the various benefits of monarchical government, and specifically in the British tradition, when they are readily available for you to track down yourself.
I didn't ask you to. I merely pointed out that your 'you're a socialist' line is getting rather tired.

(Original post by L i b)
I'm sorry
Apology accepted.

(Original post by L i b)
Your statement that: "well duh. People usually mean related places - Buckingham Palace etc. when they speak of the RF bringing tourism" is simply wrong.
You hang around some very odd people if they genuinely believe tourists land in Heathrow with aspirations of sharing a cuppa with the Prince of Wales.
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CorpusNinja
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#160
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#160
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
These statements hardly sound like pro-Monarchy?
They hardly say 'lets get rid of em' either.

(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
In any case, this is Have Your Say and not D&D forum
Well spotted. What do you want? A cookie?

(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
Why else would on deduce from what you said?
You're really not making any sense. Don't be surprised if I just ignore you herein.
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