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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    2.Social and economic inequalities are to be arranged so that;
    a) offices and positions must be open to everyone under conditions of fair equality of opportunity (this isn't what we currently call equality of opportunity...this intends to eliminate all social luck; therefore barriers to opportunity created by wealth would be considered immoral, like private schools, private healthcare etc)
    How is this statement not what we mean by equality of opportunity? How does private healthcare make some offices and positions not equally open to everyone? However that statement does suggest that you'd have to remove differences in ability, unless you assigned everything by pure chance, as differences in ability give you unequal opportunities.
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    What is the TSR Socialist Party's policy on Welfare?

    We already know that Socialism includes "stealing from the hard-working rich middle and upper class people, to give to the poor and unemployed toe rags", but does the TSR Socialist Party adopt the same stance?
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    What is the TSR Socialist Party's policy on Welfare?

    We already know that Socialism includes "stealing from the hard-working rich middle and upper class people, to give to the poor and unemployed toe rags", but does the TSR Socialist Party adopt the same stance?
    You know, it's much easier to get a response if you don't antagonise people. But I digress.

    Welfare, to us, is a means of preventing people going below a certain standard of living. This means that they can easily get medical care if they're ill, for example (I've always said it, a people cannot truly be free if they are hungry, ill and ignorant).

    What's your view on welfare, if I may ask?
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    What is the socialists policy on allocating goods without price?
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    (Original post by Nothos)
    You know, it's much easier to get a response if you don't antagonise people. But I digress.

    Welfare, to us, is a means of preventing people going below a certain standard of living. This means that they can easily get medical care if they're ill, for example (I've always said it, a people cannot truly be free if they are hungry, ill and ignorant).

    What's your view on welfare, if I may ask?
    Do you agree with the redistribution of wealth and do you agree with the excessive taxation of those on high incomes?

    I believe that welfare should be used as an incentive to get people back into work. Only those "on the bread line" should be given benefits.

    Why do I hold this stance?

    Well I always walk through council housing estates on my way to school and the amount of BMWs I see is outstanding and the amount of satelitte dishes on the wall is also shcoking.

    I feel that if these people are giving council housing, but can afford to buy a BMW and Satelitte TV then they shouldn't be using Taxpayer's money.

    Hence why I feel that welfare should only be given to those who absolutely need it, because the last thing I want is welfare dependency.
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    Do you agree with the redistribution of wealth and do you agree with the excessive taxation of those on high incomes?
    By definition, nobody believes in "excessive" taxation, as that automatically implies it's too much. I would imagine more socialists wouldn't think taxing those on high incomes a lot is excessive.

    (Original post by abucha3)
    I believe that welfare should be used as an incentive to get people back into work. Only those "on the bread line" should be given benefits.

    Why do I hold this stance?

    Well I always walk through council housing estates on my way to school and the amount of BMWs I see is outstanding and the amount of satelitte dishes on the wall is also shcoking.

    I feel that if these people are giving council housing, but can afford to buy a BMW and Satelitte TV then they shouldn't be using Taxpayer's money.
    Three words: right to buy. When you've bought your house at a rate subsidised by the taxpayer and had 10 years of huge house price rises, you're doing pretty well. Different issue to benefits. And done by the Tories.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    By definition, nobody believes in "excessive" taxation, as that automatically implies it's too much. I would imagine more socialists wouldn't think taxing those on high incomes a lot is excessive.
    Would you say that the 50% Super Tax is excessive?
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    Would you say that the 50% Super Tax is excessive?
    Personally, yes, but I'm not a socialist. However by definition, anyone who would impose a 50% tax would think it not excessive.
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    Do you agree with the redistribution of wealth and do you agree with the excessive taxation of those on high incomes?

    I believe that welfare should be used as an incentive to get people back into work. Only those "on the bread line" should be given benefits.

    Why do I hold this stance?

    Well I always walk through council housing estates on my way to school and the amount of BMWs I see is outstanding and the amount of satelitte dishes on the wall is also shcoking.

    I feel that if these people are giving council housing, but can afford to buy a BMW and Satelitte TV then they shouldn't be using Taxpayer's money.

    Hence why I feel that welfare should only be given to those who absolutely need it, because the last thing I want is welfare dependency.
    :rofl: You've clearly never been on benefits. A normal person on benefits does not have a hope or prayer of being able to buy a BMW.
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    (Original post by Nothos)
    :rofl: You've clearly never been on benefits. A normal person on benefits does not have a hope or prayer of being able to buy a BMW.
    I have seen the Council Housing Estates. There are many near Malden Manor Train Station (New Malden). There are BMWs and Satellitte Dishs all over the wall. If you don't believe me, I shall take a photo on Monday and have it sent to you.
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    I have seen the Council Housing Estates. There are many near Malden Manor Train Station (New Malden). There are BMWs and Satellitte Dishs all over the wall. If you don't believe me, I shall take a photo on Monday and have it sent to you.
    As both he and I said, not on benefits. Council house =/= being on benefits.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    As both he and I said, not on benefits. Council house =/= being on benefits.
    I have seen Council Houses and the people living there have BMWs and Satellitte Televsion. Like I said, I shall have a photograph taken and the evidence shall be given to both of you next week.
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    "Libertarian socialism" isn't really a political philosophy, it's just a statement of how you and your friends would live in a libertarian society. This is also why "libertarian biochemist" is not a political stance.
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    I have seen Council Houses and the people living there have BMWs and Satellitte Televsion. Like I said, I shall have a photograph taken and the evidence shall be given to both of you next week.
    Dear Lord, can you really not comprehend the simple statements you're quoting? So what if people in council houses have BMWs and Sky? They're not necessarily on benefits. They may even not be in 'council' houses, as most have been sold by the councils to their tenants. If they can afford a BMW from their salary, good luck to them!
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    How?
    Well in the same way that tax doesn't have to be taxing :p: In all seriousness, socialism can work without the heaps of bureaucracy evident in Stalinism if there is a great deal of delegation to local governments such as has been suggested by Peter Hain, Dafydd Elis-Thomas, and a whole host of others. By removing the overbearing centralisation evident in New Labourism it is possible to configure a British form of socialism that is not a clerkocracy but is an efficient system dedicated to the usual socialist beliefs in equality, social justice etc.
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    What is the socialists policy on allocating goods without price?
    We don't have one. It is not something that we could legislate on, nor something that we could legislate on, as the country is not ready. It is an ideal and as such is not something that we can state categorically that it would work, nor on the specifics of how.
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    I love it when the PCP give you something to laugh at. Idiots.
    • TSR Support Team
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    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Adorno)
    Well in the same way that tax doesn't have to be taxing :p: In all seriousness, socialism can work without the heaps of bureaucracy evident in Stalinism if there is a great deal of delegation to local governments such as has been suggested by Peter Hain, Dafydd Elis-Thomas, and a whole host of others. By removing the overbearing centralisation evident in New Labourism it is possible to configure a British form of socialism that is not a clerkocracy but is an efficient system dedicated to the usual socialist beliefs in equality, social justice etc.
    Is it suddenly not bureaucracy if it's not the central government?
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Is it suddenly not bureaucracy if it's not the central government?
    No, however the amount of bureaucracy required to run things at a local level is much less than it is to govern with things centralised. I don't think even the wildest libertarian would advocate the complete erradication of the functions of government even if that government happened to be just a bunch of guys down the pub writing things as they go along.
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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    I'm currently very interested in the works of John Rawls
    Interesting chap. I have a lot of difficulty though imaginging his theories translated into an actual system of laws.
    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    this intends to eliminate all social luck; therefore barriers to opportunity created by wealth would be considered immoral, like private schools, private healthcare etc)
    Surely it is not an issue in and of itself that the wealthy pay more for their children to be educated than the poor; the problem is that they get a better education because of it. To solve the problem we should not brain-damage the education that rich kids can recieve, but find a way of ensuring access does not depend on wealth.

    In contrast, I would argue that a truely luck-egalitarian system would have an entirely privatised education system, and then use either vouchers or CBI to ensure that even the poorest can afford a world-class education for their kids.
    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    But obviously this is an ideal theory, where everyone is committed to the cause (rather like Communism, I suppose).
    Well indeed, for Rawlesianism to be compatible with freedom of movement, as DH outlined earlier.

    Oh, and I may have missed it if you replied to someone else earlier, but would your luck-egalitarian society attempt to compensate for lack of skills (incl. laziness) or just major disabilities?
 
 
 
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