Socialists Question Time AKA 'Ask a Socialist' Watch

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iwilson03
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#2501
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#2501
(Original post by paddy__power)
1) Ok fair enough, I agree. But I just think that to speak of an ideal situation is pointless, what we need to do is address what is best from the likely outcomes. Two states are viable, but would be so hard to achieve effectively without some major turnaround.
If we don't have a solution in mind how do we progress? How do you view the situation?

2) That's very misleading. They are not underachieving, they are achieving what they were likely to achieve given that the
brightest students go to Grammar school. All children can't get top grades, your wording implies they should - which would make given them grades at all pointless. I'm all for egalitarianism, but not everything has to be an issue.

I have no idea what bills have/have not been passed except a drug bill I saw earlier making most drugs legal or something, oh dear. I will attempt to read TCP bill at some point though =] I may well agree with it. Hmmm, it is yes - but I think the implications of using 'segregation' are such that they mislead.

Segregation based on ability is prevalent in many facets of life, from education and beyond. We live in a meritocracy, which I'm glad of but presumably runs counter to what you would like, and as such denigrating ability based segregation at one level, but not another, seems silly. Are you in favour of, for example, universities having to admit a cross section of the potential student population in terms of ability?
I'm not suggesting that all pupils should look to get equal grades, that'd be mad , but I do feel that grammar schools divert resources and in segregating pupils they do the opposite of creating intellectually diverse school communities. I feel that even the grammar students get a raw deal, more often than not they're not able to concentrate on their areas of enjoyment - art etc. - because it is expected that they focus on the traditional areas. I think this is wrong. Pupils should intermix in the same school environment and if you are good at science and art then you go to the top sets in these subjects. Someone who is really good at English but wouldn't have got into grammar because of drawbacks in say maths would be able to mix with the very best of English students, while still staying within their 'range' in terms of maths classes. You get the picture (I hope, I am distracted by the football as I type).

I don't think using the term 'academic segregation' should be a problem, if it makes people uncomfortable then that's their problem

We don't live in a meritocracy either, I don't know anyone who thinks we do

Uni's are a different case. You go to study one or two subjects, i.e., subject by subject streaming. By that point you are meant to have specialised, a completely different environment to a secondary school or primary school one where you are meant to be fostering a diverse array of talent/skills whatever.

It may well do, but the party can change. I, at least, don't seek to necessarily be like the RL UKIP at all - other than when the policies are good - as doing so for the sake of it is not conducive to what I want to achieve. [Take I, in this case, to mean the party]

3) In the past UKIP had a different composition, and by extension different aims - as a result of different views. Currently, within TSR UKIP there are more thinking people who are more concerned with what is best for the country, in our opinion anyway, than a cloying patriotism which is counter-productive in a multi-cultural society, which is what we have.

Our views on immigration now do not equate to us being ignorant to the benefits it can have, and has had, we know economic improvements in Britain, and other countries, have often been wed to immigration. This said, different situations have to be approached differently and the fact remains that there are problems that need to be fixed. I personally advocate, as I recall mentioning somewhere, not having a 'freeze' but a virtual 'freeze' for however many years, in that it would be very hard to gain entry during this time - and for it to still be followed by a relaxation to a points system akin to those used in other countries.

I can't talk for the PCP, or TSR UKIP before I joined a few days ago but, as paperclip aptly observed - a party is the sum of it's members. TSR UKIP will, I hope, come to show it is not what it was before, and certainly not what it was as the PCP; assuming what I have been told is correct that is.
Sounds good :yy: I can't exactly take fault with this, as (aside from specific policies) the methodology sounds logical. I'll be keen to see what UKIP legislation looks like this term to be honest..
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iwilson03
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#2502
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#2502
(Original post by Adorno)
Liberalism doesn't bring either of those two things because of one key thing which is always neglected when talking about Liberalism: property. Property ownership is the basis upon which a person is able to be free to act and therefore to enjoy social equality. Socialists do not believe in individual property as th basis of freedom and equality, in fact we believe in a freedom that goes beyond the confines of liberal freedom and is fundamentally socially just rather than merely equal. New Liberalism is slightly different but there are no New Liberals here.
I just googled new liberalism. It is short but would you say that this article gives a fair overview? Do you have any other resources on it?
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ByronicHero
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#2503
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#2503
(Original post by iwilson03)
If we don't have a solution in mind how do we progress? How do you view the situation?



I'm not suggesting that all pupils should look to get equal grades, that'd be mad , but I do feel that grammar schools divert resources and in segregating pupils they do the opposite of creating intellectually diverse school communities. I feel that even the grammar students get a raw deal, more often than not they're not able to concentrate on their areas of enjoyment - art etc. - because it is expected that they focus on the traditional areas. I think this is wrong. Pupils should intermix in the same school environment and if you are good at science and art then you go to the top sets in these subjects. Someone who is really good at English but wouldn't have got into grammar because of drawbacks in say maths would be able to mix with the very best of English students, while still staying within their 'range' in terms of maths classes. You get the picture (I hope, I am distracted by the football as I type).

I don't think using the term 'academic segregation' should be a problem, if it makes people uncomfortable then that's their problem

We don't live in a meritocracy either, I don't know anyone who thinks we do

Uni's are a different case. You go to study one or two subjects, i.e., subject by subject streaming. By that point you are meant to have specialised, a completely different environment to a secondary school or primary school one where you are meant to be fostering a diverse array of talent/skills whatever.



Sounds good :yy: I can't exactly take fault with this, as (aside from specific policies) the methodology sounds logical. I'll be keen to see what UKIP legislation looks like this term to be honest..
1) Tentatively. Having a solution in mind is all well and good, but if it's not viable it's pointless. For example a solution to poverty is give everyone loads of money.... I personally don't now what's best. I think the peace talks are a good start, I think Hamas need to mollify their stance on Israel but that will only happen if land is returned to them IMO, in which case the short regress ends with Israel - we will have to see. I'm not aware of the situation ENOUGH to be able to giveany sort of comprehensive answer; I know what it's not rather than what it is, so to speak.

2) It's ok I'm similarly distracted. I know, and I'm a huge fan of a streaming system, but I feel there is still a place for Grammar schools within our education system for the reasons outlined. Although I [personally, not party line yet] would potentially reduce the number - which would mean that many many student that would have been Grammar school students will instead be at comps, fulfilling your aims with the streaming.

I completely reject your point about interests btw, in every Grammar I know art, and especially music, is promoted even more than in the comprehensives. As are things like writing competitions, starting your own sports clubsand the like.

You know me, I think we do - although it's not a strict meritocracy of course. The point was more to illuminate the principle efficiently.

I have no issue with the university point, that's fair enough and I will concede you are correct - at least in terms of comparing Schools year 7 - 11 with universities.

3) Aye, well the party is very much in transition at the moment. With the election of a new leader/DL and the entry of several new members things will hopefully start to look different; most notably [I hope] in the attitude of members.
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Adorno
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#2504
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#2504
(Original post by iwilson03)
I just googled new liberalism. It is short but would you say that this article gives a fair overview? Do you have any other resources on it?
It's not a bad overview. The best work on New Liberalism, I'm afraid, is academic but you'd do worse than read through the foundational texts by Hobson and Hobhouse. I'd try and track down Hobouse's book on Liberalism but in the meantime there's a snippet here:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1911hobhouse.html

Other than that, there is the work by historians and social scientists such as Michael Freeden and Peter Clarke in particular:

Freeden: The New Liberalism: An Ideology of Social Reform (Oxford, 1978)
Freeden: J.A. Hobson: A Reader (London, 1988)
Clarke: Liberals and Social Democrats (Cambridge, 1981)

Interesting to note, of course, that the New Liberals of that period were all members of Balliol at around the same time. But their work was picked up during the 1980s as a way of seeking a way out of the malaise of the Left really.
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iwilson03
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#2505
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#2505
(Original post by Adorno)
It's not a bad overview. The best work on New Liberalism, I'm afraid, is academic but you'd do worse than read through the foundational texts by Hobson and Hobhouse. I'd try and track down Hobouse's book on Liberalism but in the meantime there's a snippet here:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1911hobhouse.html

Other than that, there is the work by historians and social scientists such as Michael Freeden and Peter Clarke in particular:

Freeden: The New Liberalism: An Ideology of Social Reform (Oxford, 1978)
Freeden: J.A. Hobson: A Reader (London, 1988)
Clarke: Liberals and Social Democrats (Cambridge, 1981)

Interesting to note, of course, that the New Liberals of that period were all members of Balliol at around the same time. But their work was picked up during the 1980s as a way of seeking a way out of the malaise of the Left really.
Nice one, thank you! I'll have a read through a little later :yep:

I'm surprised that I haven't really come across the term before, or maybe I've just ignored it before :erm:
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Lord Hysteria
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#2506
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#2506
(Original post by iwilson03)
Lord Hysteria is a member of the Libertarian Party though?
What about me?
iwilson03
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#2507
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#2507
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
What about me?
Oh you have been accused of much :holmes: I'll try and find the relevant post inabit.. it really is nothing interesting blown out of proportion :rolleyes:

EDIT: Post #2450 if interested...
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ByronicHero
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#2508
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#2508
What are your views on immigration and the EU?
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iwilson03
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#2509
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#2509
(Original post by paddy__power)
What are your views on immigration and the EU?
This is only my personal opinion /disclaimer.


On immigration I'm 'for' it in the same way that I'm 'for' emigration. Freedom of movement etc. Not sure what else to say there :erm:

On the EU... this has already been answered fairly comprehensively on page 124, in fact you responded to it :confused:
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ByronicHero
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#2510
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#2510
(Original post by iwilson03)
This is only my personal opinion /disclaimer.


On immigration I'm 'for' it in the same way that I'm 'for' emigration. Freedom of movement etc. Not sure what else to say there :erm:

On the EU... this has already been answered fairly comprehensively on page 124, in fact you responded to it :confused:
I just copied and pasted the request into all the threads at the time =]

Welcome back by the way :yep: not seen you in a few days.
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iwilson03
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#2511
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#2511
(Original post by paddy__power)
I just copied and pasted the request into all the threads at the time =]

Welcome back by the way :yep: not seen you in a few days.
Oh fair enough!

Yeah I intend to disappear over weekends because I work over both days which knackers me, and then on Mondays I go out cliff scrambling :holmes:
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ByronicHero
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#2512
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#2512
(Original post by iwilson03)
Oh fair enough!

Yeah I intend to disappear over weekends because I work over both days which knackers me, and then on Mondays I go out cliff scrambling :holmes:
Ah nice :eek3:

Not like you miss much anyway tbh lol
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Moe Lester
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#2513
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#2513
(Original post by iwilson03)
This is only my personal opinion /disclaimer.


On immigration I'm 'for' it in the same way that I'm 'for' emigration. Freedom of movement etc. Not sure what else to say there :erm:

On the EU... this has already been answered fairly comprehensively on page 124, in fact you responded to it :confused:
Do you want zero border controls?
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iwilson03
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#2514
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#2514
(Original post by paddy__power)
Ah nice :eek3:

Not like you miss much anyway tbh lol
Aha yeah it looks a bit.. dead around. Got some Socialist stuff to sort out tonight, that'll give you another bill to vote on
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iwilson03
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#2515
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#2515
(Original post by Moe Lester)
Do you want zero border controls?
In our current system? No. But I think we should do all in our power to help those fleeing war/homophobia/persecution etc. and then I certainly don't agree with measures such as immigration freezes. In a perfect world there would be zero border controls, that for me is the principle to be worked towards.
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ByronicHero
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#2516
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#2516
(Original post by iwilson03)
Aha yeah it looks a bit.. dead around. Got some Socialist stuff to sort out tonight, that'll give you another bill to vote on
I have a couple of bits and pieces coming along but we will see how that goes :yep:
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Moe Lester
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#2517
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#2517
(Original post by iwilson03)
In our current system? No. But I think we should do all in our power to help those fleeing war/homophobia/persecution etc. and then I certainly don't agree with measures such as immigration freezes. In a perfect world there would be zero border controls, that for me is the principle to be worked towards.
Under what system could there be no border controls?
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ByronicHero
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#2518
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#2518
How many socialists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
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Internationale
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#2519
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#2519
(Original post by paddy__power)
How many socialists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
One.
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Internationale
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#2520
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#2520
(Original post by Moe Lester)
Under what system could there be no border controls?
Socialism/Communism.
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