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    (Original post by paperclip)
    I'm aware of that, which is why i'm entirely indifferent to the Olympics being in London. Has it's pros, has its cons.
    Well one thing for Scotland is that Glasgow is hosting the 2014 Commonwealths and that should boost the economy there. Manchester had the Commonwealths not that long ago but as per Wales, the South West, and the North East get left off the menu. What's really annoying is that money from the Lottery is being ploughed into the Olympics and therefore starving lots of other projects around the country of much needed investment. That's the sad thing about it.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Well one thing for Scotland is that Glasgow is hosting the 2014 Commonwealths and that should boost the economy there. Manchester had the Commonwealths not that long ago but as per Wales, the South West, and the North East get left off the menu. What's really annoying is that money from the Lottery is being ploughed into the Olympics and therefore starving lots of other projects around the country of much needed investment. That's the sad thing about it.
    Tbh, i hate the lottery anyway because whilst it tries to claim it's doing some good all it does is give false aspiration to the working/under class. My dads been playing since he arrived and everything hes won has been a pittance, but he always says that one day it will pay off.

    I blame the government, even when we had labour not enough was invested in places that weren't south, and now that we have the thatcherite party in power, social cohesion and class aspirations is gonna be low. Cancelling the BSF scheme will affect the north the worst, and will certainly mean the working class isn't doing as well as it has been recently (they can criticise labours 50% of the population at university as much as they want, but all they're doing is ensuring more people hate education, are unlikely to stay in it and creating a social divide). Obviously, as all these politicians can afford to send their kids to private schools they don't give a rats ass.
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    Tbh, i hate the lottery anyway because whilst it tries to claim it's doing some good all it does is give false aspiration to the working/under class. My dads been playing since he arrived and everything hes won has been a pittance, but he always says that one day it will pay off.
    Well yes. The lottery is essentially a tax on the working class to fund projects that the rich tend to use like Opera or whatever. That said, a lot of heritage projects have benefitted from the Heritage Lottery Fund in ways that would never happened if the government were funding things directly but I know what you mean! I've never played it. Can buy a couple of cans for £1 mun!

    I blame the government, even when we had labour not enough was invested in places that weren't south, and now that we have the thatcherite party in power, social cohesion and class aspirations is gonna be low. Cancelling the BSF scheme will affect the north the worst, and will certainly mean the working class isn't doing as well as it has been recently (they can criticise labours 50% of the population at university as much as they want, but all they're doing is ensuring more people hate education, are unlikely to stay in it and creating a social divide). Obviously, as all these politicians can afford to send their kids to private schools they don't give a rats ass.
    Well they're privatising education and health in England. Perhaps you should come and live in Wales? We'll do a prisoner swap: you for Tucker :p:
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Well they're privatising education and health in England. Perhaps you should come and live in Wales? We'll do a prisoner swap: you for Tucker :p:
    Ahaha, i'd love to
    I am a city boy, so it'd have to be Cardiff though. But i've always planned to move to Wales when i'm settling down and raising kids, the welsh attitude to Education is lovely! I think a post by rightsaidjames won me over, when he went to university he made a post about how he finds the educational system in england strange, as everyone in wales went to their local comprehensives!

    Even atm, i'm finding the welsh attitude to education amazing whilst posting here.

    How long before seven_three comes in here declaring i'm gonna be poor for the rest of my life if i move to Wales? :p:
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    Ahaha, i'd love to
    I am a city boy, so it'd have to be Cardiff though. But i've always planned to move to Wales when i'm settling down and raising kids, the welsh attitude to Education is lovely! I think a post by rightsaidjames won me over, when he went to university he made a post about how he finds the educational system in england strange, as everyone in wales went to their local comprehensives!

    Even atm, i'm finding the welsh attitude to education amazing whilst posting here.

    How long before seven_three comes in here declaring i'm gonna be poor for the rest of my life if i move to Wales? :p:
    Well when I was little and we were preparing to go up into Year 7 from primary school, everyone called it and knew it as "going to comp". I went from Nursery to the Infants to the Juniors to Comp. Seemed natural. But when I arrived at university people there simply couldn't understand the notion of seeing secondary school simply as comp. In fact, I had to get into the habit of calling it secondary school to avoid it.

    England feels like a different country to me.
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    Tbh, i hate the lottery anyway because whilst it tries to claim it's doing some good all it does is give false aspiration to the working/under class. My dads been playing since he arrived and everything hes won has been a pittance, but he always says that one day it will pay off.
    It will pay off, I know it will! :yep:
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    (Original post by Metrobeans)
    It will pay off, I know it will! :yep:
    Yeah, you'll match 6 numbers by the time you're 13,983,815 years old :awesome:

    Or half that if you play twice a week
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    (Original post by Stricof)
    I'd like to know the demographics of such voters for Diversity to be honest.
    Possibly Although I doubt ethnics swung the vote so much away from Boyle :p:
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    what do my fellow socialists make of the Burka ban in France?

    I think its a very complex issue and that just banning them wont really address the problems attached to them.
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    I think it's a ******* disgrace.
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    what do my fellow socialists make of the Burka ban in France?

    I think its a very complex issue and that just banning them wont really address the problems attached to them.
    I think that there was a debate on this issue a few months ago on this forum.

    I agree that it is a complex issue but there are two main reasons for the ban:

    1) Security Reasons - the Burka conceals the face and body, making the person unidentifiable.

    2) Moral Reasons - the Burka is a symbol of oppression. We live in an equal and tolerant society, where women shouldn't need to or be forced to wear the burka because of other men.
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    I think that there was a debate on this issue a few months ago on this forum.

    I agree that it is a complex issue but there are two main reasons for the ban:

    1) Security Reasons - the Burka conceals the face and body, making the person unidentifiable.

    2) Moral Reasons - the Burka is a symbol of oppression. We live in an equal and tolerant society, where women shouldn't need to or be forced to wear the burka because of other men.
    1) I guess, but you can surely use the same argument to ban anything that could conceal your identity?

    2) sure, but don't some of them choose to wear it? also if they are being forced, making it illegal is unlikely to make much difference? no? only now they would be the ones punished...for something they are being forced to do?
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    1) I guess, but you can surely use the same argument to ban anything that could conceal your identity?

    2) sure, but don't some of them choose to wear it? also if they are being forced, making it illegal is unlikely to make much difference? no? only now they would be the ones punished...for something they are being forced to do?
    What other kind of clothing conceals your identity? I would ban any clothing which conceals your identity in public places - train stations, banks, government offices etc.

    However, I would want to completely ban the burka in the UK. Let's say for arguments sake, that women are not forced to wear the burka. I am proud of the British society and women should be able to walk down the street wearing little clothing without the fear of other men. We live in an equal and tolerant society and the burka suggests that women should hide from society because of how they could be treated - in my opinion this is wrong and that's why I would want to see a total ban.
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    What other kind of clothing conceals your identity? I would ban any clothing which conceals your identity in public places - train stations, banks, government offices etc.

    However, I would want to completely ban the burka in the UK. Let's say for arguments sake, that women are not forced to wear the burka. I am proud of the British society and women should be able to walk down the street wearing little clothing without the fear of other men. We live in an equal and tolerant society and the burka suggests that women should hide from society because of how they could be treated - in my opinion this is wrong and that's why I would want to see a total ban.
    1) hoodies can, helmets can, even hats and umbrellas can technically be used to conceal identity.

    2) I understand that, but I would prefer that we did it by discouraging that way of thinking via education and stuff. you also didnt answer my point about people being forced being punished for being forced?
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    What other kind of clothing conceals your identity? I would ban any clothing which conceals your identity in public places - train stations, banks, government offices etc.
    Oh don't be absurd!

    Are you telling me in the winter it would be illegal for me to wear a jacket, scarf, wolly hat, gloves etc ... ? Come on!

    And since when do I have to 'reveal' my identity?

    However, I would want to completely ban the burka in the UK. Let's say for arguments sake, that women are not forced to wear the burka. I am proud of the British society and women should be able to walk down the street wearing little clothing without the fear of other men. We live in an equal and tolerant society and the burka suggests that women should hide from society because of how they could be treated - in my opinion this is wrong and that's why I would want to see a total ban.
    The astonishing thing is that the Burqa and the Niqab and both not required at all in Islam. It is a product of the male-dominated Islamic culture where women are objects belonging to the man. That would explain why women have to cover themselves up, just like my mother puts her lawnmower in the shed. It's downright disgraceful.

    Also, where are the feminists on this? They're awfully quiet ...
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    (Original post by abucha3)
    I think that there was a debate on this issue a few months ago on this forum.

    I agree that it is a complex issue but there are two main reasons for the ban:

    1) Security Reasons - the Burka conceals the face and body, making the person unidentifiable.

    2) Moral Reasons - the Burka is a symbol of oppression. We live in an equal and tolerant society, where women shouldn't need to or be forced to wear the burka because of other men.
    1) You're going to banning a whole load of items if thats sufficient reasoning for a blanket ban of an item - balaclavas, ski masks, helmets, scarfs, oversized hats, umbrellas, baggy coats, haircuts which cover an individuals facial features?

    2) Punishing the collective for instances of community pressure causing individuals to wear the Burkha is no more logical than blanket banning diet pills in response to the fact the pressure modern society exerts on women to conform to an idealised image sometimes causes women to take said diet pills.

    It's not sensical to blanket ban something because in some instances individuals are pressured into it, you tackle the root problem and don't make a facile leap to punishing the collective.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    Oh don't be absurd!

    Are you telling me in the winter it would be illegal for me to wear a jacket, scarf, wolly hat, gloves etc ... ? Come on!

    And since when do I have to 'reveal' my identity?



    The astonishing thing is that the Burqa and the Niqab and both not required at all in Islam. It is a product of the male-dominated Islamic culture where women are objects belonging to the man. That would explain why women have to cover themselves up, just like my mother puts her lawnmower in the shed. It's downright disgraceful.

    Also, where are the feminists on this? They're awfully quiet ...
    don't get me wrong, I think people being forced to wear them is bad, I just dont think banning them (and punishing the people who are being forced, not the people forcing them) is likely to solve the problem.
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    1) hoodies can, helmets can, even hats and umbrellas can technically be used to conceal identity.

    2) I understand that, but I would prefer that we did it by discouraging that way of thinking via education and stuff. you also didnt answer my point about people being forced being punished for being forced?
    In that case, we must ban them in places where identity is vital - airports, national train stations, government offices and banks. I fail to see how a baseball cap or an umbrella can conceal an identity?

    If we acted like that, then we would be accused of being anti-Islamic and this could cause further problems. It would be be easier to impose the bill and state the reasons, rather than try to influence children a certain way. We will punish those who are forcing women to wear the burka.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    Oh don't be absurd!

    Are you telling me in the winter it would be illegal for me to wear a jacket, scarf, wolly hat, gloves etc ... ? Come on!

    And since when do I have to 'reveal' my identity?
    Please quote me on where I have actually said that. I have stated that the burka should be completely banned for moral and security reasons. I have said that concealing clothing like helmets and hoodies should be banned from places where identity is vital. You would be able to wear the items you mentioned in winter.

    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    The astonishing thing is that the Burqa and the Niqab and both not required at all in Islam. It is a product of the male-dominated Islamic culture where women are objects belonging to the man. That would explain why women have to cover themselves up, just like my mother puts her lawnmower in the shed. It's downright disgraceful.

    Also, where are the feminists on this? They're awfully quiet ...
    I am not a feminist - far from it. However, I am against women being treated as less equal to men. These sort of backward and oppressive practices may be acceptable in broken countries like Afghanistan but they should not be acceptable in the UK, where we strive for equality. Equality is not where a woman must cover her face because of the fear of other men. Even if women are not forced to wear the burka or niqab, it still represents oppression, discrimination and inequality - elements which go against our society.
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    (Original post by wilson_smith)
    1) You're going to banning a whole load of items if thats sufficient reasoning for a blanket ban of an item - balaclavas, ski masks, helmets, scarfs, oversized hats, umbrellas, baggy coats, haircuts which cover an individuals facial features?

    2) Punishing the collective for instances of community pressure causing individuals to wear the Burkha is no more logical than blanket banning diet pills in response to the fact the pressure modern society exerts on women to conform to an idealised image sometimes causes women to take said diet pills.

    It's not sensical to blanket ban something because in some instances individuals are pressured into it, you tackle the root problem and don't make a facile leap to punishing the collective.
    1) I refer you to the two posts I made moments ago, in fear of repeating myself.

    2) What a ridiculous analogy! Being obese is unhealthy and can cause many health-related problems for that person - therefore diet pills would help the person gain self-esteem and become healthier. Please read my other two posts on equality.
 
 
 
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