Socialists Question Time AKA 'Ask a Socialist' Watch

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Bakunin
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#321
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#321
How far is the notion of libertarianism tied into socialism?
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Grape190190
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#322
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#322
(Original post by Bagration)
To what extent do the Socialists advocate substitution of production for profit with production for use?
We believe the productive capacity of the country should be used for the benefit of all the people. Ultimately, in the long term, that means production for use. However, within the confines of a capitalist economy, there are obviously situations where making something for monetary gain is useful all round - people need jobs, after all.

(Original post by Bakunin)
How far is the notion of libertarianism tied into socialism?
I don't quite understand what you mean. In economic terms, we're opposites.
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Bakunin
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#323
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#323
No I mean in social terms.

How far must a society give people freedoms to be a socialist one?

Is Stalinism less or more socialist than the Labour party in the 70's or anarchist Spain in the 30's?
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Grape190190
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#324
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#324
(Original post by Bakunin)
No I mean in social terms.

How far must a society give people freedoms to be a socialist one?

Is Stalinism less or more socialist than the Labour party in the 70's or anarchist Spain in the 30's?
See, I don't have the arrogance to assume that my own brand of socialism is the only kind. Traditionally, socialism has never been tied to personal freedom - but in western Europe, it's been part of the radical left where we do believe in freedom. For me, socialism arises out of a certain romanticism of the political process. So, my belief in the advancement of freedom is almost a seperate belief entirely from my belief in a socialist society.

But yes, to be truly socialist, in my view, the liberty of individuals has to be enhanced. Otherwise, dystopian, authoritarian states form and equality dies. The key is to ensure that socialist governments are subject to the democratic process. Our problems come when people assume that economic freedom is necessarily correllated to social freedom.
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ukebert
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#325
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#325
It's difficult to define "Socialist", which is we haven't tried Economically, Grape is right, we are polar opposites from the Libertarians. Socially however we do agree from time to time, as well we should, as most of our members are fairly left-libertarian themselves.
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Bakunin
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#326
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#326
Grape thankyou for your answer, I was going to pick Marx for my name but it was taken so that should say something of my socialist credentials.
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Bakunin
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#327
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#327
My mistake
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Jaager
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#328
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#328
how do i join? i sent a message by the societies list page...
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ukebert
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#329
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#329
That should get you into the Soc, but if you want to join the party (which you do, it's wonderful) then you need to go to "Manage Groups" or something like that, and select "Socialist Party". There's a link in my sig.
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Jaager
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#330
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#330
whats the difference between the Party and the Soc??
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ukebert
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#331
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#331
(Original post by Jaager)
whats the difference between the Party and the Soc??
The Society is basically meaningless, it allows you to have a little link on your drop down, that's all. There's a thread in politics which was quite active at one point, now all of the action has shifted to the Party really.

the Party participates in the Model House of Commons in which we are posting, we create bills, present them to the house, debate on them and hopefully get them passed. It's good fun, and we've been moderately successful in the last election getting over 10% of the vote.
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Jaager
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#332
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#332
kool, just sent a request to join
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Bakunin
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#333
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#333
Good call.
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UniOfLife
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#334
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#334
Quick question - who speaks on behalf of the Party?

THM/Grape says it is everyone and uke says it is no one.

Or rather, THM/Grape says that you all speak on behalf of the Party and uke says that you all speak for yourselves except when submitting a Bill.

Could we get some clarification and perhaps a way to know that the clarification is actually the Party opinion this time. Might be tricky to do since we don't know who can actually speak for the Party. Perhaps you could get all your members to post the same thing here so we know it is the Party opinion.
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ukebert
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#335
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#335
Simply put, nobody speaks for the party in order to ascertain whether all or nobody speaks on behalf of the party. Therefore being able to speak on behalf of the party is not the perogative of any one person to explain, and as such is impossible to say.
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Grape190190
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#336
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#336
It's rather a paradox. But, in my view: no one cares. We represent the party, but we don't bind it withour opinions; equally, it doesn't bind us.
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UniOfLife
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#337
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#337
(Original post by ukebert)
Simply put, nobody speaks for the party in order to ascertain whether all or nobody speaks on behalf of the party. Therefore being able to speak on behalf of the party is not the perogative of any one person to explain, and as such is impossible to say.
hmm, but if no one speaks for the party then you cannot state that this is the party position so perhaps someone does speak for the party?

All rather odd. But in short, if we want to get the Party's opinion on something who would we ask? Or would you never have such a unified opinion and each member has his own opinion only?

If it is the latter aren't you all simply Independents?
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Grape190190
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#338
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#338
(Original post by UniOfLife)
hmm, but if no one speaks for the party then you cannot state that this is the party position so perhaps someone does speak for the party?

All rather odd. But in short, if we want to get the Party's opinion on something who would we ask? Or would you never have such a unified opinion and each member has his own opinion only?

If it is the latter aren't you all simply Independents?
All MPs a free to vote as they please and offer whatever opinions they please. Ours are no exception.

The fact that you employ a "whip" telling your MPs to vote in particular way doesn't mean that they are obliged to do so - otherwise, what's the point in having MPs? So, in both our parties there will be a unified party line in some cases and division in others. Your decision to sometimes try and create an artificially unified party is rather irrelevant.
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UniOfLife
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#339
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(Original post by Grape190190)
All MPs a free to vote as they please and offer whatever opinions they please. Ours are no exception.

The fact that you employ a "whip" telling your MPs to vote in particular way doesn't mean that they are obliged to do so - otherwise, what's the point in having MPs? So, in both our parties there will be a unified party line in some cases and division in others. Your decision to sometimes try and create an artificially unified party is rather irrelevant.
If your Party never has a whip of any sort, so that all MPs vote as they please all the time why do you have a Party at all? Are you not all completely independent of one another? Are you not all, in fact, Independents?
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Grape190190
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#340
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#340
(Original post by UniOfLife)
If your Party never has a whip of any sort, so that all MPs vote as they please all the time why do you have a Party at all? Are you not all completely independent of one another? Are you not all, in fact, Independents?
Your MPs are free to vote as they want all the time! The only difference is that we don't have a leader who tries to "whip" us into voting a certain way.

That doesn't, however, mean that people aren't accountable for their votes. Just like you might remove an MP who defies the party leadership/whip, a Socialist Party MP might be removed by democratic vote, if we don't like what they do.
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