Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BruceTaylor)
    Sigh, I've never liked that stereotype. Look at me, my family is as working class as they come, but I'm a true blue Tory.

    The res of the family are Lib Demmers. :no:

    EDIT: Also, I was expecting a more grape like answer. I would put what he'd say, but he'll doubtless quote me out of context in his signature...
    Yes well, I'm not Grape. I don't need to use antagonism to make a point. :rolleyes:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    Yes well, I'm not Grape. I don't need to use antagonism to make a point. :rolleyes:
    Wow, a socialist I could like. That brings the list up to two. It's now you and Tony Benn :P
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    Think of it in these terms - the working class generally pay more tax as a proportion of their income than any other section of society.
    Have you got any proof of that?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    See - Socialists are quite good. That's the 3rd Tory I've had agree with me in less than a fortnight. Woah.
    Seems more likely that you're becoming a Conservative rather than all the Conservatives becoming Socialists. Wouldn't be the first member of TSR Socialists to see the light :p:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fisherman)
    Have you got any proof of that?
    http://www.newstatesman.com/200504180001

    "The rich easily dodge income taxes, because they can move their money offshore and hide it in various other ways. That is why the working poor always end up paying such a high proportion of income tax revenues."

    I doubt the New Statesman would get away with printing lies very easily. It's a widely expressed view and has grounds in reality. I could be bothered to do the research but not at 00:16 in the morning.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Seems more likely that you're becoming a Conservative rather than all the Conservatives becoming Socialists. Wouldn't be the first member of TSR Socialists to see the light :p:
    I've not suddenly shifted my position on anything. I remain on political compass -10.00 economically and - 9.83 socially.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    http://www.newstatesman.com/200504180001

    "The rich easily dodge income taxes, because they can move their money offshore and hide it in various other ways. That is why the working poor always end up paying such a high proportion of income tax revenues."

    I doubt the New Statesman would get away with printing lies very easily. It's a widely expressed view and has grounds in reality. I could be bothered to do the research but not at 00:16 in the morning.
    What then, about the middle classes who are moderately wealthy? They do not generally move move money offshore, and attract higher tax rates than poor people.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fisherman)
    What then, about the middle classes who are moderately wealthy? They do not generally move move money offshore, and attract higher tax rates than poor people.
    Oh boo hoo. I'm sorry but we could go on and on and on like this. What about the person who earns £25,001 - he pays 20p more tax than the person who earns £25,000. &c. I've made my position clear. You accept it or you don't.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    I've not suddenly shifted my position on anything. I remain on political compass -10.00 economically and - 9.83 socially.
    Doesn't that put you in the Libertarian Left or have I got the scales the wrong way? Besides, as we all know the world is round - if you go too far to the edge you pop up on the other side with only a small movement
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    I've not suddenly shifted my position on anything. I remain on political compass -10.00 economically and - 9.83 socially.
    Economic Left/Right: 6.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.15


    Woo!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Doesn't that put you in the Libertarian Left or have I got the scales the wrong way? Besides, as we all know the world is round - if you go too far to the edge you pop up on the other side with only a small movement
    Of sorts. Damn, I tried to draw a graph. It didn't work.

    And to be honest, walking round town seeing Vote Communist stickers warms my heart on these cold, grey days of summer, so I'm not moving anywhere!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    Of sorts. Damn, I tried to draw a graph. It didn't work.

    And to be honest, walking round town seeing Vote Communist stickers warms my heart on these cold, grey days of summer, so I'm not moving anywhere!
    Wait, wasn't your town the one where the communist councillor won only because nobody else ran?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    Of sorts. Damn, I tried to draw a graph. It didn't work.

    And to be honest, walking round town seeing Vote Communist stickers warms my heart on these cold, grey days of summer, so I'm not moving anywhere!
    'cept round town
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    To belatedly reply (i'm in California, so finding time to reply to things political not to do with the DNC is tricky :p: )

    I'm totally against Zionism, I think political movements primarily for religious causes are (for want of a better word) immoral. However, with regards to the current mess, I think the 2 state solution is the only plausible method.

    I full support inheritance tax, as I believe that those who have succeeded through our society should pay it back.

    Sorry for not elaborating or explaining, but i'm tired and jetlagged.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Smalltownboy, one for you, as you are my socialist counterpart.

    What is your opinion of the fact that from September all secondary students are to be taught about black history and britain's role in the slave trade?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    I'm totally against Zionism, I think political movements primarily for religious causes are (for want of a better word) immoral. However, with regards to the current mess, I think the 2 state solution is the only plausible method.
    Although, of course, Zionism is not a religious ideology. Zionism has always been a secular exercise and received and receives huge opposition among religious Jews for precisely that reason.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by oriel historian)
    Oh boo hoo. I'm sorry but we could go on and on and on like this. What about the person who earns £25,001 - he pays 20p more tax than the person who earns £25,000. &c. I've made my position clear. You accept it or you don't.
    Aye up? He's hardly making up some esoteric little group of people - the middle classes he's referring to make up a massive proportion of this country. The sort of white collar workers who earn a pretty decent salary but don't have the means, knowledge or inclination to sod about with Bermudan bank accounts. They do get more of their income taken by tax than the working class. All the newstatesmen article said was that the worker class pay more than the rich - whom do, I'm sure, pay less as a proportion. Not that I have any problem with this, but that's really neither here nor there - in your analysis (and you did say "the working class generally pay more tax as a proportion of their income than any other section of society.") you've entirely ignored the middle classes. I don't believe Fisherman was trying some cheap point. You made a massive ommision (unless you have some other data that you've yet to show. If so, i'll gladly retract the above, though it won't actually change my mind on anything.)

    I have a question to the Socialists: Do you think any kind of genuine non-democratic socialism could work in the UK - or any country, for that matter - if the rest of the world did not follow suit and remained largely capitalist?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BruceTaylor)
    Smalltownboy, one for you, as you are my socialist counterpart.

    What is your opinion of the fact that from September all secondary students are to be taught about black history and britain's role in the slave trade?
    Although I am not smalltownboy, I'd like to give my opinion.

    I think that black history is not something particularly that should be mandatory to be taught in secondary schools.

    However, I fully support teaching about britains role in the slave trade, it was an absolutely horrific time, with huge death rates on transportation, racism, working them to death, etc etc. It is probably one of britains worst acts, and I believe it should be taught, similar to how the holocaust is taught. Not that I am suggesting it was as bad as the holocaust, but it is something that our country had a large role in.

    Oh and Dangrover, your first paragraph was pretty much exactly what I was about to say in response to orielhistorian.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DanGrover)
    Aye up? He's hardly making up some esoteric little group of people - the middle classes he's referring to make up a massive proportion of this country. The sort of white collar workers who earn a pretty decent salary but don't have the means, knowledge or inclination to sod about with Bermudan bank accounts. They do get more of their income taken by tax than the working class. All the newstatesmen article said was that the worker class pay more than the rich - whom do, I'm sure, pay less as a proportion. Not that I have any problem with this, but that's really neither here nor there - in your analysis (and you did say "the working class generally pay more tax as a proportion of their income than any other section of society.") you've entirely ignored the middle classes. I don't believe Fisherman was trying some cheap point. You made a massive ommision (unless you have some other data that you've yet to show. If so, i'll gladly retract the above, though it won't actually change my mind on anything.)

    I have a question to the Socialists: Do you think any kind of genuine non-democratic socialism could work in the UK - or any country, for that matter - if the rest of the world did not follow suit and remained largely capitalist?
    For pity's sake Dan. It was a quarter past midnight. I didn't want to go into an endless round of that sort of thing at that time of night. I made my position clear on the grounds of his original question. That's sufficient.

    ---------------------------

    Plus, I think this graph explains things pretty well:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:U...ges_2008-9.svg

    The sharpest rises in taxation occur for those at the bottom end of society and there is less of an incline for those in the middle. As such, working-class families are hit hardest by our taxation system. As I said.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    What do TSR Socialists believe are the limits to state control?
 
 
 
Poll
Were you ever put in isolation at school?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.